VICTORY IS OURS.

[66 vegie]

Ethics classes will go ahead next year term one in N.S.W school's...right along side with scripture. This has been a labor of love for a lot of people, who have worked tireless to see that all children have a fair education system to attend.

A win for reason and free thought.


Ethics right, refusal wrong for state schools
Sean Nicholls STATE POLITICAL EDITOR
November 22, 2010


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Verity Firth . . . 15 out of 745 submissions opposed the classes. Photo: Simon Alekna
PARENTS will have the right to ethics classes as an alternative to scripture in their child's school even if the principal and the majority of the school community opposes them.

The state cabinet is expected to approve the introduction of ethics classes to primary schools today after a successful trial this year. They will begin as early as term one next year.

While the classes will be voluntary for schools, the Herald has confirmed that parents who want their children to attend the classes will be able to appeal to the Education Department if the principal opposes them.

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As long as the St James Ethics Centre, which will run the classes, is able to provide volunteers and there is a reasonable number of children to attend them, the department will ensure they are offered.

Students in years 5 and 6 are likely to be the first to be offered the classes, because they are the years in which the trial was run. Eventually classes will be offered in years K-6.

The Minister for Education, Verity Firth, will take the proposal to cabinet having received 745 submissions in response to an independent report on the trial that was published last month.

Of the submissions, only 15 were against the introduction of ethics classes. However, many of those in support came via a form letter organised by the lobby group parents4ethics.

The submissions, which Ms Firth invited after publishing the report, reflect a broad range of attitudes from many parts of the state.

''I'm originally from Europe, and ethics classes are the norm there - even in such strongly Catholic areas as Bavaria,'' wrote a correspondent from Coogee. ''All I can say is that NSW is about 30 years behind the rest of the Western world on this issue, which is nothing short of a disgrace.''

Some submissions were political, reflecting Ms Firth's struggle to retain her seat of Balmain against the Greens at next year's election.

''If you introduce this, Verity, then I will ask my parents and friends to retain you at March as [Opposition Leader Barry O'Farrell] may oppose a wonderful course like this,'' wrote a correspondent from Balmain East.

A Baulkham Hills parent, whose child participated in the trial, said: ''The majority of parents, ethics teachers and children at our school found the ethics classes an enriching complement to the many good SRE [Special Religious Education] classes on offer''.

However, many of those opposed were concerned about ethics competing with scripture classes.

''Ethics is already taught in other forums in state primary education and should not be allowed to attract students away from meaningful faith-based studies,'' wrote one.

Another, from North Curl Curl, argued for comparative religious studies classes instead: ''I would prefer teaching about all world religions than 'ethics'. Surely this would encourage greater understanding of other cultures and beliefs as well as Christianity?''

The government does not need to legislate to introduce the classes but will change the policy of the Education Department, which rules out ethics classes as an alternative to religious education.

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Great news, 66Vegie.
Take a bow for an outcome worthy of the efforts of you and those who share your concerns.
Cheers
WLB

[Loki]

Excellent.

Well done NSW and all who worked towards this.

Now for the rest of the country.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Fantastic stuff, fellow Sydney resident. :)
It will be a change from "the old days" where were kids having to sit on their arse doing nothing while the zombie worshippers were brainwashed with detailed instructions on how to serve the great bad zombie.

The next step is to eliminate religious education entirely from the system, although sadly I am 95% sure that the Fifth Millenium will happen quicker than that. :(

[Praxis]

This is fantastic news 66V! Thank you for all your efforts in this important issue :)

[66 vegie]

Excellent.

Well done NSW and all who worked towards this.

Now for the rest of the country.


Thank's everyone for your kind wishes... wish I could take all the credit:D..but the St James Ethics Center and the P&C association have been the leading force behind this issues...A 'BIG THANKS' to all involved. @ Loki...for the rest of country..let's go bigger...the rest of the world...starting with middle
America.

I was reading skeptical Inquirer and found these interesting stat's in America

Human being's evolved from less advanced life forms over millions years: North west 43%, Midwest 37%,

God created human being's in their present form within the past 10,000 years.
South 51% Midwest 49%

"Americans remain firmly on the wrong side of science when it comes to evolution,whitch is perhaps the key fundamental unifying principle of biology."

Interesting.:)

[66 vegie]

I forgot to add...UP YOUR'S ANGLICAN MINSTER....for all your undermining ways and nasty comments. I'm not the sort of girl who let's the profanity fly...but I can't help myself this time...also like to add a "UP YOUR'S" to George Pell.:p

I'd like to add a few more "UP YOUR'S" to any religious organisations who tried to stop the Ethics classes going ahead.

Feel free anyone who would also like to give a big "UP YOUR'S" to the religious:D.

[Sieveboy]

I forgot to add...UP YOUR'S ANGLICAN MINSTER....for all your undermining ways and nasty comments. I'm not the sort of girl who let's the profanity fly...but I can't help myself this time...also like to add a "UP YOUR'S" to George Pell.:p

I'd like to add a few more "UP YOUR'S" to any religious organisations who tried to stop the Ethics classes going ahead.

Feel free anyone who would also like to give a big "UP YOUR'S" to the religious:D.

Up yours to the all of the above as per your request. I am glad these classes are moving forward and will be available to all state school children.

Well done to all those whose hard work got these classes approved and into the schools. Lets hope the benefit of this outlives labor in NSW.

To all the hypocritical religious types who sought to block these classes with their "its not fair we are excluded from ethics class" comments, then I suggest you learn from St James Ethics centre on how to teach ethics in your SRE classes.

[RealityRules]

"I'm originally from Europe, and ethics classes are the norm there - even in such strongly Catholic areas as Bavaria,'' wrote a correspondent from Coogee. ''All I can say is that NSW is about 30 years behind the rest of the Western world on this issue, which is nothing short of a disgrace.''

Many Americans can't believe SRE exists (not that they need such a recruitment drive)

[add - that "correspondent from Coogee" might not have been referring to ethics v SRe though or SRE per se

I think our schools do work to instil a good ethos in kids, regardless of lack of formal ethics classes]

[66 vegie]

Many Americans can't believe SRE exists (not that they need such a recruitment drive)

[add - that "correspondent from Coogee" might not have been referring to ethics v SRe though or SRE per se

I think our schools do work to instil a good ethos in kids, regardless of lack of formal ethics classes]

SRE is not practiced in the public school's in the US..but their are plenty of religious indoctrination going on in the public system that needs to be addressed...number one Jesus camps, open to all public school students,after school bible study groups ( not in school hours time.) and so on.

I know people who are Australian living in the U.S.A ,who have religious indoctrination going on in their school....now I'm not saying all over the U.S is like this..just parts of the country are more religious than other's. ( I can only comment on one part of the country were I have seen and heard this going on.) You don't think the religious are going to let all those rip minds go untouched...NO NO...their in the background just waiting.:mad:

[bruce1937]

Congratulations to you 66 vegi and everyone who took part in the struggle. It has set a wonderful precedent for the other states to base there campaigns on. I will be supporting any one who is doing this in Victoria. I have already lobbied our education minister regarding ethics classes , now is the time to push harder.
Is there any way of viewing the submissions that were put to the committee, both for and against, it would make interesting reading.

[66 vegie]

Congratulations to you 66 vegi and everyone who took part in the struggle. It has set a wonderful precedent for the other states to base there campaigns on. I will be supporting any one who is doing this in Victoria. I have already lobbied our education minister regarding ethics classes , now is the time to push harder.
Is there any way of viewing the submissions that were put to the committee, both for and against, it would make interesting reading.

Hi bruce...

Hope this help's...it's a big read...make a coffee and if you have any question's please let me know.

https://www.det.nsw.edu.au/detresources/NSW_Ethics_course_trial_BYucPDfMew.pdf

[Logic]

Congratulations to all involved. Now let's hope enough volunteers can be found to keep the ethics classes going!

[Xeno]

Congratulations to all involved. Now let's hope enough volunteers can be found to keep the ethics classes going!Congratulations to 66 Vegie and others involved, also. Meanwhile, having registered as a volunteer some months ago and received acknowledgement, I'm a-sittin and a-waitin.

[Coryate]

''I'm originally from Europe, and ethics classes are the norm there - even in such strongly Catholic areas as Bavaria,'' wrote a correspondent from Coogee. ''All I can say is that NSW is about 30 years behind the rest of the Western world on this issue, which is nothing short of a disgrace.''



She's quite right, it is a disgrace, and I'm glad it's finally happening.

Now I'm reading up on what has been happening in Australia with the "seckret religious right" while I have been gone, I see I have a lot to do when I'm back in the Great South Land.

[66 vegie]

For those who are interested...here's a link to the parents4ethics group...you can become a volunteer to help teach ethics in public schools.

http://parents4ethics.org/what-can-i-do-to-help/volunteer/

[wolty]

Congrats Vege and others involved. Nice to see things like this happening. :)

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I have to say, although this is a huge success in terms of separating religion and state here in NSW (which is rare) I am not too comfortable at having it at a place which is known as the St. James Ethics Center - I am a little suspicious about what's really going to be taught in the ethics classes.

[66 vegie]

I have to say, although this is a huge success in terms of separating religion and state here in NSW (which is rare) I am not too comfortable at having it at a place which is known as the St. James Ethics Center - I am a little suspicious about what's really going to be taught in the ethics classes.

I know what your saying...the SJEC is NOT an Atheist base foundation...but nor is the Ethics program an Atheist base education program....it's for anyone who has no belief, or the school is not offering their religion in that time slot. It's ethics with out the religious base content. Have a look at the link below... hopeful this well put your mind at ease.

http://www.ethics.org.au/content/about-st-james-ethics-centre

[TimB]

Well the NSW State Government has done something good - who'd have thought :rolleyes:. Thanks Verity Firth, that's tops.

Isn't it funny how much fuss some churches made about what kids should get up to in non-SRE classes - like they have a right to dictate what should happen in the SRE timeslot anyway.

[66 vegie]

Hi TimB

I know...the churches always have to know what's going on...just in case us Freethinkers are thinking of steeling all their children..and giving them a chance at a normal happy life.;)

[66 vegie]

Just a little celebration piece on the approved Ethics Classes.:D in the SMH (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/ethics-classes-to-start-next-year-20101123-184o2.html#poll)

November 23, 2010 - 10:51AM
Vote
Poll: Are you for or against?
For
75%
Against
25%
Total votes: 878.Poll closes in 2 days.
Disclaimer: These polls are not scientific and reflect the opinion only of visitors who have chosen to participate.
Ethics classes will be available in NSW public schools from next year, the state government has announced.

The NSW cabinet approved the classes yesterday after considering the recommendations of an independent evaluation of a trial program.

The St James Ethics Centre will continue to provide the course and will be responsible for all aspects it, including providing trained volunteer teachers and resources.

"The evidence has been overwhelmingly positive in support of ethics classes in NSW," Premier Kristina Keneally said in a statement today.

"From next year, schools can opt to offer the course following consultation with their school community."

Following the release of the evaluation report for public comment last month, 745 community submissions had been received with 730 in favour of ethics continuing, Ms Keneally said.

The classes will begin from Term 1 next year and, initially, will be offered to years five and six, then progressively rolled out to kindergarten to year four as well.

The ethics course would run alongside existing Special Religious Education, NSW Education Minister Verity Firth said in the same statement.

[RealityRules]

SRE is not practiced in the public school's in the US .. but their are plenty of religious indoctrination going on in the public system that needs to be addressed ... number one Jesus camps, open to all public school students, after school bible study groups ( not in school hours time.) and so on.

I know people who are Australian living in the U.S.A ,who have religious indoctrination going on in their school....now I'm not saying all over the U.S is like this..just parts of the country are more religious than other's. ( I can only comment on one part of the country were I have seen and heard this going on.) You don't think the religious are going to let all those rip minds go untouched...NO NO...their in the background just waiting.:mad:

Thanks. I did realise there was no SRE in US schools (it is unconstitutional), and many seem happy with that. No doubt they get plenty with church activities, jesus camps, bible groups etc.

Is the in-school indoctrination at lunch times and other breaks, so voluntary?

[66 vegie]

Thanks. I did realise there was no SRE in US schools (it is unconstitutional), and many seem happy with that. No doubt they get plenty with church activities, jesus camps, bible groups etc.

Is the in-school indoctrination at lunch times and other breaks, so voluntary?

From what I know...it's all voluntary..no religious activities is compulsory...just hand out's and poster's in the cafatiera and Christian club's set up for after school activities.

At the school that my friends kids go to, they also have Christian life counsellers who work with in the school to help "brainwash"...I'm mean help kids with personal issues. We have the school chaplaincy programe here.:(

[66 vegie]

GAI HODDINOTT
08 Dec, 2010 11:32 AM
ETHICS classes will start in NSW public schools from Term 1, 2011 but there is no official word as to whether they will be introduced in the Great Lakes.
Forster Public School acting deputy principal Narelle Kessey said the school was waiting to learn more from the department. Tuncurry Public School principal Neil McLean declined to comment.

The announcement by Premier Kristina Keneally and Minister for Education and Training Verity Firth comes after independent evaluations of a trial program run by St James Ethics Centre earlier this year. Initially the classes will be available state-wide to years 5 and 6 and be progressively rolled out to years K to 6.

Local schools can opt to offer the course in conjunction with scripture classes, following consultation with their school community.

Ms Firth said in a statement the ethics course would operate parallel with special religious education, as an alternative, without taking away the importance of religious classes for other families.

Ms Keneally said parents have the right to choose what is best for their child and parents who choose not to send their children to scripture classes have a right to see their children properly engaged.

Forster Public School has about 10 scripture teachers at present who teach Catholic and Protestant classes. The school makes 30 minutes available once a week for religious education according to departmental policy, Ms Kessey said.

One local scripture teacher, Suzanne Fiebig says the message of scripture helps children build positive young lives and to make good choices through life.

She says ethics doesn’t work as a substitute for scripture because scripture is about relationships whereas in ethics being a good citizen for the sake of the community is not nearly as strong a motivating factor as love and that comes from a relationship with Jesus.

Shaking my head.:eek:

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

One local scripture teacher, Suzanne Fiebig says the message of scripture helps children build positive young lives and to make good choices through life.

She says ethics doesn’t work as a substitute for scripture because scripture is about relationships whereas in ethics being a good citizen for the sake of the community is not nearly as strong a motivating factor as love and that comes from a relationship with Jesus.I suppose "positive young lives" are ones which are encouraged to own slaves, kill babies, stone non-christians, own slaves, kill black people and homosexuals, and attempt to turn others into mindless intolerant zombie-worshipping pricks?

[66 vegie]

I suppose "positive young lives" are ones which are encouraged to own slaves, kill babies, stone non-christians, own slaves, kill black people and homosexuals, and attempt to turn others into mindless intolerant zombie-worshipping pricks?

Well said Croc.

[BlueDevil]

Just a little celebration piece on the approved Ethics Classes.:D in the SMH (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/ethics-classes-to-start-next-year-20101123-184o2.html#poll)

November 23, 2010 - 10:51AM
Vote
Poll: Are you for or against?
For
75%
Against
25%
Total votes: 878.Poll closes in 2 days.


Actually the poll closed a little more favourably:

Poll: Are you for or against?
For
79%
Against
21%
Total votes: 3179. Poll closed.


Although polls such as these are not particularly reliable that is quite a sizable majority.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

BlueDevil: indeed; I think as well the site makes a disclaimer in these polls.
One thing to consider is that the polls are undertaken by only those who read the SMH site, and there is no evidence as far as I know that the majority of Australians read SMH either.

[66 vegie]

BlueDevil: indeed; I think as well the site makes a disclaimer in these polls.
One thing to consider is that the polls are undertaken by only those who read the SMH site, and there is no evidence as far as I know that the majority of Australians read SMH either.

I read the SMH, paper and site.:D

[Xeno]

The site is now up. (http://www.primaryethics.com.au/)