Length of Topics

[Ett]

I have a bit of a tough time getting involved in topics because a lot of them in New Posts (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/search.php?do=getnew) have more than 3 pages and I find to read that much each time I would like to get involved to be counter productive. By the time I get to the end of the second page I have had enough of the topic to be bothered talking about anything, and I want to move on to the next one. Anyone else find it a bit like that, other newcomers?

I wish there were more new topics sprouting up I could get involved with. :)

[atheist_angel]

I have a bit of a tough time getting involved in topics because a lot of them in New Posts (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/search.php?do=getnew) have more than 3 pages and I find to read that much each time I would like to get involved to be counter productive. By the time I get to the end of the second page I have had enough of the topic to be bothered talking about anything, and I want to move on to the next one. Anyone else find it a bit like that, other newcomers?

I wish there were more new topics sprouting up I could get involved with. :) If you can't find any shorter threads to post in, then you must not be looking very hard. There are 800 in Off Topic, alone that haven't reached a second page. (a page being: less than ten replies)

Of course, I wouldn't go about 'randomly' bumping up threads either. However, if you find something 'substantial' to contribute to the topic.. by all means, contribute. :)

[BlueDevil]

Yes, it can be rather daunting when you check out a thread and then realise that it runs to 10, 20, 30 or more pages. I generally read the first few pages then skip to the last page or two to see what is current.

I guess I would tend to not get involved with a thread that has been going on for a long time unless I have read through the entire thread. Chances are I may be just repeating what has already been said.

I also find some of the terminology on this forum goes over my head. No doubt over time I will get a feel for what people are saying. And obviously there is a fair bit of chat amongst regulars who know each other about issues of a personal nature that I am not going to understand.

None of this is intended as criticism! I am really enjoying the exchange of info and ideas on this forum. Rather, I am just stating my observations as someone who has not been a regular on the forum. I hope to become a more regular visitor and over time I am sure I will 'settle in' well and gain even more from this great resource.

There is so much to learn from this forum but not enough hours in the day!

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Careful Ett, you may draw the unwanted attention of the Elders of Loquace.
These long thread conspiracists may encourage their minions to bury this thread in plain view by spurring so many people to post in it that no newcomer will even bother opening the first page, let alone exploring the complexities and nuances of this most interesting topic as it gets taken to its logical conclusion in a thousand post wave of contribution.
The elders seek to hide valuable information from the generations of youth with short attention spans so they can never... Hey, look! Something shiny.

Some threads get long because they warrant exploration (good). Some get derailed and taken in unexpected directions (poor etiquette, but often interesting). Some get long because people start to take the piss (naughty, but sometimes extremely funny), and the smartass quotient in any forum of freethinkers tends to make for some lengthy pisstake cascades. The euthanasia debate thread is long, but most of what has been written in it is well considered and sincere. It constitutes a large body of condensed information from a range of perspectives. You don't have to read it, but you don't have to contribute either.
There's always new threads starting that you can jump into, too.

[Ett]

Careful Ett, you may draw the unwanted attention of the Elders of Loquace.
These long thread conspiracists may encourage their minions to bury this thread in plain view by spurring so many people to post in it that no newcomer will even bother opening the first page, let alone exploring the complexities and nuances of this most interesting topic as it gets taken to its logical conclusion in a thousand post wave of contribution.
The elders seek to hide valuable information from the generations of youth with short attention spans so they can never... Hey, look! Something shiny.

Some threads get long because they warrant exploration (good). Some get derailed and taken in unexpected directions (poor etiquette, but often interesting). Some get long because people start to take the piss (naughty, but sometimes extremely funny), and the smartass quotient in any forum of freethinkers tends to make for some lengthy pisstake cascades. The euthanasia debate thread is long, but most of what has been written in it is well considered and sincere. It constitutes a large body of condensed information from a range of perspectives. You don't have to read it, but you don't have to contribute either.
There's always new threads starting that you can jump into, too.
I know. It was just feedback. When you come to any new forum with a fair share of big threads dominating current talk I think you may encounter the same problem. I only wanted to express that.

And if you are, please don't belittle me.

[Fiery]

I consider it good manners to read a thread that I am interested in from front-to-back. It gives me a good feel for the personalities involved, prevents repetition of previous points, and goes to show how popular the thread really is.

[Ett]

I do too, but you reach a point, I believe everyone does, where you have taken in too much information and you have to let it cool. And the dilemma is, if you want to join in do you go ahead (which can be rude, backfire, repetitive, etc., etc.) or do you let the topic be and then miss out and try to catch up later or next time.

For those without such a challenge, the answer is either to keep reading (I recommend this, as it's taught me more than school ever did), or stop reading.
If only it were that simple. And if you are insinuating something about me stop it, not only is it a form of personal attack, it goes against what is written here:
"To enjoy the forums, let's try and keep emotions, abuse, trolling and proselytising out of discussions. If you've got something negative to say, be prepared to back it up with reasons: hate speech and unthinking prejudice do not fit in here."

[Praxis]

I consider it good manners to read a thread that I am interested in from front-to-back. It gives me a good feel for the personalities involved, prevents repetition of previous points, and goes to show how popular the thread really is.
I knew I liked you. I do this too. How else can I understand what's going on and find out what people various think about the topic? Plus, it's courtesy especially if I intend to contribute to the thread.

As for not understanding certain terms or concepts, when I first joined the RDF years ago, I found exactly the same thing and was alternately confused and a little intimidated. So I started researching these common terms and themes. And of course by doing that, I learned. I learned LOTS. And I continue to learn here. And I still do that. If someone posts something I don't understand, I either ask them directly what it means or I go look it up for myself. Keeps the ol' grey matter ticking over nicely :)

I reckon that's probably the best pay-off for being a member of forums like these: you have this huge well of knowledge you can draw from freely. Fantastic!

Back to the OT though, of course we see this TL;DR attitude from younger people a lot. They'd rather start a new thread on a topic that's been canvassed almost until death than read through a discussion that's been going on for ages. This rather spectacular display of arrogance and hubris always comes as a surprise to me (although I know it shouldn't), yet it also remains endlessly entertaining (yep, a board such as this would never have discussed topics like euthanasia or vegetarianism - I'll be the first one to start this most fascinating topic! :rolleyes:)

Even funnier when they get all miffed if they do make a new thread on a well-worn topic and have it merged into the ongoing discussion.

We may indeed live in a fast-paced, rapidly-changing world but the aquisition of knowledge and the necessity of understanding what has gone before, before proceeding forward always has and always will take time.

[wolty]

If only it were that simple. And if you are insinuating something about me stop it, not only is it a form of personal attack, it goes against what is written here:
"To enjoy the forums, let's try and keep emotions, abuse, trolling and proselytising out of discussions. If you've got something negative to say, be prepared to back it up with reasons: hate speech and unthinking prejudice do not fit in here."

Oh bloody hell, move on already. We have better things to do with our time than try and be smarty pants with words and insinuation.

[Ett]

I am referring to The Irreverent Mr Black. And in case you have not noticed I am posting feedback. When you experience a problem in the use of a forum, am I not allowed to express my experience with out being generalised, ridiculed or treated inferior?

Complain is your view, I clearly expressed concern, view, feeling, and disappointment in the way I felt I happened to be treated. If I wanted to complain I would have been more like:

this forum is horrible
the people here are foul
people here are too quick to jump their guns

but I still don't want to. I do however feel and want to express my upset with the people here but I won't. Why bother when you are apparently not welcome so I will take the hint and leave. Good bye. Do what you will but remember they are your terms you are seemingly betraying, even after I leave. :mad:

[atheist_angel]

And if you are, please don't belittle me.

If only it were that simple. And if you are insinuating something about me stop it, not only is it a form of personal attack, it goes against what is written here:
"To enjoy the forums, let's try and keep emotions, abuse, trolling and proselytising out of discussions. If you've got something negative to say, be prepared to back it up with reasons: hate speech and unthinking prejudice do not fit in here." Ett? Have you been reading the Glossowary (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=7675)? ;)

Hurt Fawn Defence: A form of passive-aggression, in which the attacker leads with a cry of imagined personal hurt, in order to fend off critique of a weak or invalid argument.This one's my favorite. :D

[davo]

I am referring to The Irreverent Mr Black. And in case you have not noticed I am posting feedback. When you experience a problem in the use of a forum, am I not allowed to express my experience with out being generalised, ridiculed or treated inferior?

Complain is your view, I clearly expressed concern, view, feeling, and disappointment in the way I felt I happened to be treated. If I wanted to complain I would have been more like:

this forum is horrible
the people here are foul
people here are too quick to jump their guns

but I still don't want to. I do however feel and want to express my upset with the people here but I won't. Why bother when you are apparently not welcome so I will take the hint and leave. Good bye. Do what you will but remember they are your terms you are seemingly betraying, even after I leave. :mad:

tl;dr

[atheist_angel]

I do however feel and want to express my upset with the people here but I won't. Why bother when you are apparently not welcome so I will take the hint and leave. Good bye. Do what you will but remember they are your terms you are seemingly betraying, even after I leave. :mad: We have one for that (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showpost.php?p=140197&postcount=42) too! :p You should really read that Glossowary (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=7675). Couldn't hurt. ;)

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I have Asperger's and I find long threads can be quite daunting sometimes, particularly if the posts are longer than Bill Gate's stretch limo.

But here's the thing: I just don't bother participating in such threads, and if I have participated back when it was shorter, I unsubscribe from them. I generally leave it to the more smarter individuals on these forums who seem to have an IQ of 750 or above.

In a forum, there shalt be long threads.

[Xeno]

tl;drI fed the text into a counter of unique words and found that "I" outnumbered any other word at all by more than 2:1. Next up were all conjunctions and prepositions.

HTH

[Lord Blackadder]

I am referring to The Irreverent Mr Black. And in case you have not noticed I am posting feedback. When you experience a problem in the use of a forum, am I not allowed to express my experience with out being generalised, ridiculed or treated inferior?

Complain is your view, I clearly expressed concern, view, feeling, and disappointment in the way I felt I happened to be treated. If I wanted to complain I would have been more like:

this forum is horrible
the people here are foul
people here are too quick to jump their guns

but I still don't want to. I do however feel and want to express my upset with the people here but I won't. Why bother when you are apparently not welcome so I will take the hint and leave. Good bye. Do what you will but remember they are your terms you are seemingly betraying, even after I leave. :mad:

For the love of Pete, get over yourself. The universe doesn't revolve around you - it revolves around me, dammit.

See you later - don't let the door hit your gluteus maximus on the way out.

[Praxis]

[quote=Lord Blackadder;143803]For the love of Pete, get over yourself. The universe doesn't revolve around you - it revolves around me, dammit./quote]
*delicate tap on shoulder* Um, excuse me? It's actually all about moi :D

Oh, and I can't resist this for our flouncing OP: et(t) tu? :cool:

Do we have a Glossowary entry for I yet? If not, I vote Ett be used as an example of "It's All About Me" and perhaps a secondary entry in the Dumpty Wriggle entry (a word means whatever I say it means).

[Rhys]

One of the first things I did after signing up was change the number of posts per page in the settings to 30 to make the threads appear less daunting :D.

[Fiery]

I set mine to 40, or whatever the maximum is. Sometimes, the longer the thread, the funnier it gets. Especially on fantasy island and the humour section. Finished this thread with tears of laughter streaming down my face.

I LOVE THIS FORUM!!!!!

[Fiery]

..and I'm so happy to see you here Fiery. I missed you heaps.

If I mentioned the toilet roll holder would it make you laugh?

LOL!!!!! Yer damn straight it would. Did you ever get that sorted?

Someone was beating it

Another was banging it

And there was rolling around helplessly on the floor.

funniest. night. ever. I'm so glad that flight was delayed 12 hours!!!!!!!!

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

So, anybody here use threaded mode? lol

[Fiery]

What is the threaded mode you speak of? Is the threaded mode mandatory? I don't see anything on the home page that one is required to use threaded.

I'm feeling influenced to use the threaded mode, when I'm not sure that is what is best for me or the AFA. Will you belittle me if I use another mode?

https://senoracasas.wikispaces.com/file/view/Puss_in_boots.jpg

I just need to feel like it is ok to use a method other than the one Croc is so ardently pressing against me. I care about the AFA!

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

At the top of the thread, under "Display Modes" you'll see it. :)

[Fromm_Nicht]

I am referring to The Irreverent Mr Black. And in case you have not noticed I am posting feedback.

What are you suggesting Ett, that we ban long threads because some folk don't like to read so much?

[Fiery]

@ croc. but butttt i don't want to see it. nothing on the front page says I have to use threaded mode. I like..... whatever mode i'm in now!!!!! I'm concerned about this "threadism" that I am facing here and feeling oppressed in the process. ohhhhh I know what it is. I bet you have to pay for threaded mode and it is an evil conspiracy to get money out of me.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

damn heretic... gnyagghhh... true forumites use threaded mode. I don't because I can make exceptions. :p

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Yarr! I be still able ter access threaded mode Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[wolty]

Is that a modern day pirate or a yesteryear pirate? It is important.

[wolty]

Ahhh, like Han Solo then. :p

[Fromm_Nicht]

Ahhh, like Han Solo then. :p

Nah, Han Solo is a smuggler and from a long time ago :p

[wolty]

Nah, Han Solo is a smuggler and from a long time ago :p

True.

How will I know what a future pirate is supposed to sound like? :confused:

[Annie]

Dont know Wolty but apparently a male one looks like this...


http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/beenak/images-3.jpg

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

True.

How will I know what a future pirate is supposed to sound like? :confused:

He be drinkin' whiskey 'n' forum
He be walkin' of 'is 'ere iPhone 'coz it looks like a plank
He be usin' Google Earth and thinkin' he's invisible 'cos they can't find 'is 'ere ship
He be lookin' up creationist videos to help practise 'is 'ere pirate laugh
He be startin' flame wars with "u suck biotch" instead of "Fire!"
He be findin' treasure by turnin' Google's Safe Search off
He be catchin' waves on the 'net
He be encryptin' is 'ere treasures so no landlubber can steal 'em
He be goin' phishing while eatin' spam spam spam spam spam alovelyspam spam spam spam
He be wonderin' why the President of Nigeria just gave 'im 'ere free treasure

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Eye Cap'n' Black!

[Ett]

What are you suggesting Ett, that we ban long threads because some folk don't like to read so much?
No.

and perhaps a secondary entry in the Dumpty Wriggle entry (a word means whatever I say it means).
I don't do that. :confused:

Ett? Have you been reading the Glossowary (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=7675)? ;) This one's my favorite. :D
I had a quick look at it out of curiosity, didn't stay long though. Heh, except it is not imagined. And I welcome critique (to a certain degree), when it is productive.

And I hate to break it to a lot of you, when I talk about myself I tend to use I a lot, because I am making reference to me, it would be odd if I talked about I but kept referring to you wouldn't it, so that is probably why. If I talk too much about myself or I talk about how I feel too often then stop letting me, like in the Euthanasia (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=1701) thread. Just state what you would like of me and if it is reasonable then I will try to comply next time (if there is a next time).

[atheist_angel]

I had a quick look at it out of curiosity, didn't stay long though. Heh, except it is not imagined. Are you very certain, it is not imagined? :rolleyes::D I had a quick look at it out of curiosity, didn't stay long though. Heh, except it is not imagined. And I welcome critique (to a certain degree), when it is productive.

Just state what you would like of me and if it is reasonable then I will try to comply next time (if there is a next time). :confused: Perhaps you should just try to walk a bit more softly until you have acclimated to the environment.

Just a suggestion. Take it or leave it. ;)

[Ett]

Are you very certain, it is not imagined? :rolleyes::D :confused: Perhaps you should just try to walk a bit more softly until you have acclimated to the environment.

Just a suggestion. Take it or leave it. ;)
Mhm. I am.

I will take it. :) Anything to get my out of all this. :o

[Fromm_Nicht]

No.



Then, what is the point of this thread pointing out that the threads are too long? (The question is one of genuine curiosity and not intended as offensive)

[Ett]

Feedback. :) Honestly.

[wolty]

Ett, this place is a tough gig. There are some outstanding minds at play here. I know from my position, I am endowed with the ability to read really fast, as is Mr B. That is the only way I could cope being here.

I read everything as a mod, but only feel the need to participate in the things I am interested in and passionate about.

All I would suggest is this, it will take some time for you to acclimatise, take your time, keep an eye on the things that interest you, relax and have fun. You don't need to contribute to everything.

If you are in any doubt as to your position, go off, do some reading and learning and get back into it. Ideas here will be savaged if they are not clear and well-thought out.

[Ett]

I appreciate the advice. :)

[Fromm_Nicht]

Feedback. :) Honestly.

But the purpose of providing feedback is to either compliment good policy or initiate changes in percieved bad policy. What was the purpose of your feedback?

[Worldslaziestbusker]

6AvMUR_XMlg

[rosiemacduck]

6AvMUR_XMlg
Thanks for that WLB. I didn't realise he had so many strings to his bow. He definitely has the kavorka :p

[wearestardust]

Some threads are too long. People ought not post pointlessly into them without making a significant contribution to the discussion.

[wearestardust]

Ett settera, ett settera...

Long thread is long.

[Xeno]

But how long is a thread?

I need a piece of string with which to measure it.

[two dogs]

How Long is a China man.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Long Tall Sally

[wearestardust]

As long as it is to the top?

[Worldslaziestbusker]

As long as it is to the top?

Iff you want to rock and roll.

[Fiery]

Long Tall Texan
DJ8pc448YBo


OI!!!! when i started this it was going to be straight under Croc's Long Tall Sally.

BANNED FOR MAKING MY COMMENT LOOK ME-TOOISH!!!!! *stomps*

[Fiery]

I'm just worried some people will have to read through all these pages.. you know how hard that can be.

Beg to differ, brother mine. The key word is "HAVE" to. This is a FREE forum. Membership here is volunteer. Not one of us HAS to be here. If a thread is too long, then DON'T FARKING READ IT.......

wait....

Haven't we had this discussion already? I feel like I'm going in circles.

Dizzy.

Room spinning.

Somebody put up an appropriate you tube video, please!!!!!!!

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Had a few redbulls by any chance?

[Fiery]

@Croc, not red bull, oh green one.

A pair of Long Island Tea's


1 ounce white rum (http://www.food.com/library/rum-180)
1 ounce vodka (http://www.food.com/library/vodka-846)
1 ounce gin
1 ounce triple sec (http://www.food.com/library/curacao-432)
splash of Coca-Cola for colour
sour mix

MMMMMmmmmmmmm

[Ett]

But the purpose of providing feedback is to either compliment good policy or initiate changes in percieved bad policy. What was the purpose of your feedback?
To share my experience and let others know of the difficulty I was having (to people reading don't be pathetic). The goal was to find other like minded individuals in the same boat, and see how they had managed. It was negative feedback but not all negative feedback demands change. And I obviously did not intend for you to outlaw or abolish long topics, they are a part of every forum.

[davo]

http://www.quitecurious.com/wp-content/gallery/cache/3792__400x_pancake-rabbit.jpg

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

@Croc, not red bull, oh green one.

A pair of Long Island Tea's


1 ounce white rum (http://www.food.com/library/rum-180)
1 ounce vodka (http://www.food.com/library/vodka-846)
1 ounce gin
1 ounce triple sec (http://www.food.com/library/curacao-432)
splash of Coca-Cola for colour
sour mix

MMMMMmmmmmmmmPerhaps I can get a few more giggles after you see the Wikipedia article about the bunny with a pancake on his head (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunny_with_a_pancake_on_his_head) then? :)

[Loki]

Thanks Croc, look what I found there, Waffles!

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af170/Sleipnir123/601px-Oolong_last_head_performance.jpg

[wearestardust]

A long thread is something up with which I will not put.

[wolty]

Long thread, read it not I will.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

This is great! We can stay up late, swappin' manly stories and in the mornin': Ah'm makin' waffles!

[Xeno]

This is great! We can stay up late, swappin' manly stories and in the mornin': Ah'm makin' waffles!I worry that your waffle will be too long.

This is I, myself, speaking which is why I use I as the nominative pronoun for which me is a dative form of I, except after "of" I ought to say "me" which for me is awkward as I see it, or see me, which I do.

[Loki]

This is I, myself, speaking which is why I use I as the nominative pronoun for which me is a dative form of I, except after "of" I ought to say "me" which for me is awkward as I see it, or see me, which I do.

Good for you. My word yes.
Well Chris, what is it that it is - this theory of mine. Well, this is what it is - my theory that I have, that is to say, which is mine, is mine.

Well said Anne(via Monty Python).

[Fiery]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRx4VitIh7j954YGwNy3LGDT-Fe3WmKQ40HuvcXoIVOKlXyV84PzA
this thread has now reached 3 pages.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRp9XD9lc_GV7HsxzUxFkGdO7jLgf3xc mn5wlgugpX-NZKR-qEK
on you!

[wearestardust]

I once caught a thread that was this long.

[Xeno]

I could say my thread is longer than yours but fear I might not be addressing the breadth of the subject.

[wearestardust]

never mind the quality, feel the length.

[Lord Blackadder]

It's not how long your thread is, it is what you do with it that counts...

[wolty]

Does my thread look big in this?

[wolty]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RCrzWyBnjNk/S4V468be8EI/AAAAAAAADzE/HF7prcdwGp0/s400/thread+3.jpg

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Is hyper-threading enabled on this forum?
Also, I think someone needs to rewrite the forums to make them multithreaded to get best performance.

[Fiery]

Banned for killing a legendary thread.

[Roger]

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/shreky_01/screw-1-1.jpg

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

tl;dr

[Roger]

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/shreky_01/screw-1-1-1.jpg

[Lord Blackadder]

OMP, it's Roger!

We're screwed.

*lights post-post cigarette*

[wearestardust]

I only smoke after sex. Pack a day man.


More seriously, can we limit threads to one post each of one syllable?

[Lord Blackadder]

I only smoke after sex. Pack a day man.


More seriously, can we limit threads to one post each of one syllable?

Silly bulls?

[Fiery]

hhhmmmmm a screw.

but what does it mean?

screw me. (an invitation)
screw you! (an insult)
we're screwed (a prediction)
screw ball (a commentary on the OP)
screw loose (ad hominemenem)
screw (a call for all to engage in promiscuous activity)

golly jolly roger, your post can be interpreted as many ways as the wholly babble!

We humbly request further enlightenment. :)

[Roger]

It's not a screw but a big thread that got longer ;-)

[Fiery]

http://www.mommyshangout.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/embarrassed.jpg



http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q169/possiblelunatic/Motivational/motivation-dirtymind.jpg

I knew it was a lamp, honest I did!!!!

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Elementary my dear redhead. It would appear that the suspect who posted images of screws was enjoying the appearance of a metric thread.

[Roger]

British Stanndard Whitworth Croc old chap.

Thread Data & Formulae
BSW (British Standard Whitworth) (http://www.colinusher.info/Livesteam/whit.zip)
http://www.colinusher.info/Livesteam/whit.jpg
P = Pitch = 1/Number of threads per inch (tpi)
h = Angular Depth = 0.960491 x P
D = Depth of Rounding = 0.073917 x P
h/6 = Shortening = 0.160083 x P
d = Actual Depth = 0.640327 x P
r = Radius at the Crest & Root = 0.137329 x P
C = Core diameter = Major Diameter - 1.280654 x P
Effective or Pitch Diameter = Major Diameter - .640327 x P

[Roger]

It's driving me http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/shreky_01/nuts.jpg the size of this thread :eek:


(and every one else)

[Roger]

Or
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/shreky_01/crashnb.jpg