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owheelj
15th August 2010, 09:11 PM
Would you?

What if they were only moderately - rarely went to church, had very similar values and interests to you apart from their religious belief?

I only ask because I've met a girl like that. She knows I'm an atheist, but not that I'm the president of my university atheist society :P

wolty
15th August 2010, 09:16 PM
This would be my situation.

9 Years going out with a girl, she went back to church last year. It has caused some considerable problems with us. And now I notice if we have a disagreement about anything, she will bring up something about me justifying my morals, rubbishing Dawkins or just generally not trusting me anymore. And the church people seem to be having their say to her as well.

ABridgeTooFar
15th August 2010, 09:17 PM
haha definitely. Only dating someone with the same religious views sounds like a christian thing to do ;) But i guess there can be big personality clashes in some cases.

Justtristo
15th August 2010, 09:30 PM
I would only date a Christian girl who wasn't devout and was not worrying about me getting into heaven, because I am an atheist.

prudie
15th August 2010, 09:35 PM
I would and have dated christians in the past. In my experience it only has even a remote chance of working if they are not devout, church for weddings and funerals only. Anyone with a devout belief is just too diametrically opposed to me approach at life. They will spend their entire time trying to convert you and a relationship is meant to be easy and a break from the stresses of the world. They cease to be the soft place to fall if you have to spend all your time arguing about something you don't believe in the first place.

I've also dated a liberal voter and that is even more doomed to failure. lol

Logic please
15th August 2010, 09:49 PM
Tough situation, wolty - hope it all works out for you.

I'd think that wolty's situation is more difficult that owheelj's. Without having been in the situation myself, I'd guess that where a partner changes their religious beliefs, they are inclined to look at everything through the prism of their new belief, including existing friends / partners.

In owheelj's case, the differences are known at the beginning, and (if they decided to date) accepted.... but they could become an issue later if there are disagreements....

Owheelj, do you think you are both tolerant enough of each others' positions to try dating? If so, I'd give it a go - maybe after setting a mutual "no attempted conversions/de-conversions" ground rule. :)

Lord Blackadder
15th August 2010, 09:53 PM
For me, religious belief is a deal breaker in a relationship, particulary if I am going to make a long term investment.

But I'm a grumpy cow set in my ways, so I also wouldn't tolerate cat-haters, duvet hoggers, toilet-seat-up-leavers and people-who-don't-put-the-bins-outers, even if they did look like a certain Tenth Doctor posessing a large sonic screwdriver.

I have a friend in a similar situation to Wolty: been together with the one woman for years where she showed no religious proclivities whatsoever, then like the German guns of war, "boom, boom, boom", she dropped a bombshell on him and joined happy-clappy land. He is not a happy camper, suffice to say.

wolty
15th August 2010, 09:57 PM
Well I put the toilet seat down, I don't hog the duvet, I put the bins out and do general odd jobs with my large screwdriver, but suffice to say, the gud thing is causing some problems.

Fearless
15th August 2010, 10:07 PM
Would I?

I know it sounds a bit shallow but I think I would have to say no, not likely.

Mainly because it is one of those areas that generally cause too much conflict even if it is just silent conflict i.e. you know it's there but neither want to address things, especially when/if things get serious and kids are involved and other significant events, like weddings funerals etc etc.

That said, I have known of a number of mixed relationships to hold but only because they either avoid any subject that may cause the conflict, or they compromise, in certain ways (i.e. the non believer occasionally going to church (no thanks) or they both have their own separate activities)... or I have even seen (unfortunately) the dominant partner determining how things work in the relationship and the other either submits and complies or regresses to practice in secret/private.

I am not making any of that up... all of those scenarios are from actual relationships I have known... none of them mine thank goodness.

But that said sometimes you just make it work, no matter what if you are smitten and both feel it shouldn't get in the way.

For me, I would just be feeling I would be living some sort of lie.

My wife has stated her position that she is probably more agnostic. She calls herself a 'fence sitter', but I can tell you now, even from knowing me and the things I talk about in general conversation I see her having light bulb moments... I am not pushing her but I feel she is sliding up the scale.

Even today my painfully religious mother came over for lunch and guess what came on TV.. a David Attenborough documentary... Mum says something like 'oh it's him, he talks nonsense!', my wife who is totally oblivious as to what my mother is on about says 'oh if I could invite 5 people to a dinner party he would be one'. My mother says 'he is the last person I would invite!', then I jump in and ask 'why?'. She realises she is treading into grouchy territory and doesn't know what to say... so I help her... 'is it because he is an atheist?', reluctantly she admits yes. I then remind her not to disrespect me. She reluctantly lets go.

After mum left, my wife, who didn't know he was an atheist said... 'wow, I wouldn't have even put two and two together' realising that my mother was judging the person based on atheism. I just nodded and said, when you see it nearly every day, it is hard not to notice it.

Anyway, I am yabbering... what's new!

Good luck either way :)

Lord Blackadder
15th August 2010, 10:10 PM
Well I put the toilet seat down, I don't hog the duvet, I put the bins out and do general odd jobs with my large screwdriver, but suffice to say, the gud thing is causing some problems.

But do you like cats? ;)

wolty
15th August 2010, 10:12 PM
But do you like cats? ;)

I was wondering if you would notice. :p
Do I have to answer that? :D

Lord Blackadder
15th August 2010, 10:15 PM
I was wondering if you would notice. :p
Do I have to answer that? :D

Entirely a matter for you.

But if you wish, I could wheel out Yakety Sax in anticipation of your response...

owheelj
15th August 2010, 10:20 PM
Yeah well I'm going on a date on Thursday, so I'll let you know how it goes :). I guess for me, the answer to the question generally is "yes," obviously, but it's far from clear whether things will last very long, from my perspective, and I guess hers when she finds out I'm a fundamentalist atheist rationalist neo-humanistic secular militant. Still I did have a long online chat with her today (actually just now, and I started this topic while it was going on), about religion and we agreed on almost everything - but it was really just about crazy fundies and teaching religion in school. Her dad is an atheist though, and her mum is very religious (but also strongly supports secular values), and she described herself as in the middle. So who knows. I will endeavour to get her to read my atheist books anyway :D. Although actually that may be an error, as the last girl I dated, which wasn't really that long ago, was a massive atheist (which is how I met her), and I lent her God Is Not Great, and now she won't bring it back (although she does keep telling me that she will soon, but like most of what she says, I have no idea what she actually means /rant). I will probably go round in a few weeks and demand it. Or buy a new copy. Maybe a hardback, since that's a book I'd love to have a good copy of.

owheelj
15th August 2010, 10:21 PM
Also, I wouldn't say that I hate cats, but I am completely opposed to people who live in Australia having them as pets, and if it were up to me I'd have all the ones in Australia turned in to fertilizer. I may have just hijacked my own thread. You and I will never date, Lord Blackadder.

wolty
15th August 2010, 10:24 PM
Entirely a matter for you.

But if you wish, I could wheel out Yakety Sax in anticipation of your response...

I like.............................c.......ca....... .......cat.....................cats. There I said it. I like cats. There I said it again.

Never ask me again.

Actually I am allergic to them. They make my eyes water for hours and I sneeze until seismologists think weird shit is happening.

Lord Blackadder
15th August 2010, 10:28 PM
I like.............................c.......ca....... .......cat.....................cats. There I said it. I like cats. There I said it again.

Never ask me again.

Actually I am allergic to them. They make my eyes water for hours and I sneeze until seismologists think weird shit is happening.

Was that so hard?

Fearless
15th August 2010, 10:29 PM
Also, I wouldn't say that I hate cats, but I am completely opposed to people who live in Australia having them as pets, and if it were up to me I'd have all the ones in Australia turned in to fertilizer. I may have just hijacked my own thread. You and I will never date, Lord Blackadder.

Sounds like someone who has not grown up with one, or at least the nice companion type.

My wife didn't want any at all, was opposed to them, but after I rescued the two we have and raising them from 1.5 weeks up, she knows the reason why she felt the way she did was purely her parents influence... she loves them to bits now. ;)

But aside from the fertiliser comment which disturbs me a little you are free to your opinion I guess he he.

Stop digressing!

I hope your date goes well... she might want to know your views in full one day though!

Lord Blackadder
15th August 2010, 10:33 PM
Also, I wouldn't say that I hate cats, but I am completely opposed to people who live in Australia having them as pets, and if it were up to me I'd have all the ones in Australia turned in to fertilizer. I may have just hijacked my own thread. You and I will never date, Lord Blackadder.

I am oppossed to people who have cats as pets and don't keep them indoors. Cats are perfectly happy indoors - it gives them practice lording it over the hairless monkey slaves known as "humans". Mine has only made it to the ripe old age of ten because she lives inside. Burmese have a brain deficiency when it comes to traffic.

But I digress.

My cat is not religious. She knows she is God. :D But God botherers need not come purveying their wares in my household. Good luck on your date, Owheelj.

wolty
15th August 2010, 10:33 PM
Also, I wouldn't say that I hate cats, but I am completely opposed to people who live in Australia having them as pets, and if it were up to me I'd have all the ones in Australia turned in to fertilizer. I may have just hijacked my own thread. You and I will never date, Lord Blackadder.


Forget the atheism versus christian thingy, does she like cats? That is the important question.

Loki
15th August 2010, 10:36 PM
I hate cats, the worst thing about them is they make such wonderful pets (so I can see both sides of that particular discusion).

One of my first memories is of having a cat give birth in my bed. Always had them as a kid but I deny myself that joy now for environmental reasons.

And of course the question of her beliefs is irrelevant to whether you date her or not. The only relevant question is does she have big cats?

wolty
15th August 2010, 10:37 PM
Was that so hard?


A little. :D

owheelj
15th August 2010, 10:44 PM
I grew up with a cat. It wasn't really until I become interested in environmental issues that I realised they were a problem, and especially now that I've developed an interest in bird watching (actual birds). I concede that if you could keep your cat inside all day they would be less of a problem (although a New Scientist article a while ago claimed that they have the same carbon footprint as driving a small car). However I think the benefit of getting rid of all cats would outweigh the cost of the tiny minority of people who do keep their cats inside.

I have dated girls with cats before. It's not a problem. I just put the cat in the freezer and then comfort the girl when it turns up dead. The last sentence may be untrue and a reference to TV show.

Logic please
15th August 2010, 10:49 PM
This thread is entirely valid, but we could be in danger of morphing from AFA Forums to a cross between "Dr Harry's Talk to the Animals" and rsvp.com ;):D

Oh, and good luck on your date owheelj :)

Fearless
15th August 2010, 10:59 PM
mine stay indoors for the record... let them play outside on the weekend and weekdays when we are out with them. Agree with you totally about responsibility to the environment.

Freezer! Seen Bad Boy Bubby lately? I am getting disturbing visions!

Can you stay on topic dammit! lol

You mentioned getting her to read your books... assuming she wants to of course :p My wife, although she is very understanding of my position, she won't partake in any book reading or the like, as she feels that to get involved in one side to challenge the other is no better.

That said, she occasionally lets me know when she has experienced something that has made her see things from my perspective. A passive awareness of sorts.

wolty
15th August 2010, 10:59 PM
@LP Thanks for your kind words before. :)

owheelj
15th August 2010, 11:08 PM
@Fearless even though I own over 100 books that I haven't read, but want to, when somebody gives me a book that I know I disagree with, I make a point of reading it immediately. How can we find out we're wrong about anything if we avoid the arguments against our positions? Of course none of these books (all about religion) have done anything other than make me think that the person writing the book and giving it to me are ignorant and have poor critical thinking skills, but certainly there are plenty of books I've chosen to read that completely changed my mind on issues, so maybe one day somebody will give me a book that will change my mind.

One of the things I really like about this girl is that she reads a lot too. Actually that was one of the things I liked about the girl before too (the one who stole my book), but that turned out to be not really true, or I didn't understand. I didn't understand most of what she said to me it turned out.

Fearless
15th August 2010, 11:18 PM
I take my imaginary hat off to you... it's a good way of thinking and learning... my assuming side says you might be amongst few who actually do that.

To be honest many (like me) wouldn't bother. Some might think it be because I think I am right and wont listen to opposition, which is untrue. I would just rather read or learn that which makes sense so I will tend to avoid that which doesn't (I feel I would be wasting my time otherwise but totally respect your reason for doing so).

I wish I could devote more time to reading then I might change myself.

Sir Patrick Crocodile
15th August 2010, 11:23 PM
Probably not, since it would result in a conflict in interest.

wolty, how the hell do you do that and survive? :D

However if she was a Christian and she wasn't too devout (ie. very relaxed - like my friend who doesn't mind me saying whatever I say about Christianity at the moment :D) I may consider it.

Personally I think relationships and friendships are too fucking hard so I tend not to bother with them, as far as making new friends and dating is concerned.

Dane
16th August 2010, 07:58 AM
No. Not unless I could reason her out of it. If that seems harsh, well... I'd like to be happy and don't want constant disagreement over something that big. Big things like that and politics I'd rather not have conflict over.

wolty
16th August 2010, 08:58 AM
wolty, how the hell do you do that and survive? :D



It ain't easy, mate. And I am not one to regulate my words. It makes for interesting discussion.

And I do get accused all the time of being disrespectful of the person when I am very carefull to attack the ideas. If it is an integral part of who they are, there is no way they can distance themselves from the difference and that makes it very difficult. And then I am the bad person.

I should respect their faith? Why the fuck should I?

Praxis
16th August 2010, 04:20 PM
It ain't easy, mate.
Sorry, did I read "and this what I'm going to do about it, very bloody soon"?

No? Hmm, must've been between the lines.

Don't mind me. Just passing through ;)

wolty
16th August 2010, 07:33 PM
Sorry, did I read "and this what I'm going to do about it, very bloody soon"?

No? Hmm, must've been between the lines.

Don't mind me. Just passing through ;)

I can read between lines as well.

I know you want me. :D

Sir Patrick Crocodile
16th August 2010, 08:05 PM
I see reds under the bed...

Elbert
17th August 2010, 04:35 PM
owheelj....Date, by all means.... Marry? Never!!!!

...if it were up to me I'd have all the ones in Australia turned in to fertilizer... It wasn't really until I become interested in environmental issues that I realised they were a problem... a New Scientist article a while ago claimed that they have the same carbon footprint as driving a small car).... the benefit of getting rid of all cats would outweigh the cost of the tiny minority of people who do keep their cats inside.

Agree wholeheartedly about cats! They are responsible for most of the bird and small reptile extinctions or near extinctions. I feel the same about pet dogs. Working dogs, OK... their owners keep them contained. Get one of those Japanese cyber pets if you don't have a partner to amuse and cuddle.:cool:

two dogs
17th August 2010, 08:58 PM
...
Agree wholeheartedly about cats! They are responsible for most of the bird and small reptile extinctions or near extinctions. I feel the same about pet dogs. Working dogs, OK... their owners keep them contained. Get one of those Japanese cyber pets if you don't have a partner to amuse and cuddle.:cool:
Indeed, I'm fuckin' sick of dogs defecating on my lawn, and of cats crapping in my garden. As for killing wildlife, here's a photo of some Willie Wagtail (Rhipidura leucophrys) chicks, shortly before a neighbour's fuckin' cat got to them!

http://julian-jordan.net/images/Wagtails.jpg

Caio
17th August 2010, 09:31 PM
Date a christian? Like its been said, it depends on how big the difference is between the two of you, but that hold for just about any issue really.
I have been with my current girl (a christian) for just over 4 years now, and no real big problems. Semi-church goer and describes herself as "catholic", but is more progressive and doesn't depend on the church to dictate what she can and cant do. But then again our relationship is one of those rare occasions where opposite attract; we don't really listen to the same music, have a reasonable different appreciation in movies, im reclusive and not very sociable, she is out more going, etc...although we do have much in common too.
Like most things of this nature, there is no solid rule; but i would say don't let it be the sole reason for not trying...

slim
18th August 2010, 06:20 PM
Would you?

What if they were only moderately - rarely went to church, had very similar values and interests to you apart from their religious belief?

I only ask because I've met a girl like that. She knows I'm an atheist, but not that I'm the president of my university atheist society :P

Depends mate - how's she look? :D


Seriously though, I've dated a few Christian girls. The dating experience depends a lot on how devout they are; if she identifies with xtianity but does't practice, and does't mind the odd shag... and doesn't try to coax you into attending mass, all will be well.

If they're the type that has a cry after a shag because they feel they've just committed a mortal sin, then it's not so good. It worsens when they try to drag you along to Hillsong conventions and that sort of rubbish...

In summary non-practicing girls were fantastic as long as I avoided the topic of religion. I would not, however, repeat the experience dating a devout xtian...

Outside of that, Buddhist, Hindu and Muslims girls have all been great.

Dixie Chick
19th August 2010, 02:47 AM
I've only dated one atheist and I was a believer back then, we got along fine. I respected him actually for using his brain as opposed to believing what everyone else did.

My guy is a closet Christian - I think. To me he says "he doesn't know" but I suspect from comments made that he does believe...mainly we don't talk about it though. I just tell him I don't know either.

Senexis
19th August 2010, 01:28 PM
Would I?

I know it sounds a bit shallow but I think I would have to say no, not likely.

Shallow? Asking about her tits would have been shallow. This is the opposite of shallow.

I think, at a foundation level, that the two are too different to work long term. Sure, dating it fine, people supress unpopular parts of themselves while dating. But sooner or later, THAT DAY will come, where it WILL MATTER and there's nothing but heartbreak for everyone if it's three kids and a mortgage down the road.

owheelj
20th August 2010, 09:32 AM
I'm pretty sure "that day" would come before having 3 kids and a mortgage.

Anyway went well, for the record. Seeing her again soon :) We didn't discuss religion at all, except for me mentioning that I got Mormon missionaries to help me move house (because they rocked up at the door while we were moving :D )

wearestardust
20th August 2010, 09:43 AM
It may well be difficult given the charged nature of atheist-theist relations at the moment. we await your report.

Something that never comes up in these kinds of discussions is the whole sex thing. If one member of a couple has a healthy attitude to sex and the other is bent out of shape about it and thus is insufficiently ehtusiastic about frequency or practice, that would be likely to lead to trouble.

Xeno
20th August 2010, 09:49 AM
... sex ... sex ... ehtusiasticEnthusiasm overcoming you a bit there, WAS?

:D:D

wearestardust
20th August 2010, 10:01 AM
Enthusiasm overcoming you a bit there, WAS?

:D:D

Thinking about Kari Byron, and Nigella Lawson, and Kari Byron and Nigella Lawson.

Seamus
20th August 2010, 11:12 AM
I like cats,I once had a Russian Blue.She was nice cat,but my ex wife took her when she left.The cat died soon after.I really missed that cat.:p

michalis
20th August 2010, 03:20 PM
I dated a Hill$ong chick for a while. I even went to Sunday service with her a couple of times while the relationship was new. I learnt two things from the experience:

1. Hill$ong is the most insane place to visit. There were people praying in tongues, the pastor reads prayer requests that thank god for everything including 'miracles' such as getting a new job, falling pregnant, getting over cancer or getting a pay rise. The sheep there are mostly young earth creationists and they indoctrinate children with this stuff.

2. Hill$ong chicks don't put out.

End of relationship.

:)

Fearless
20th August 2010, 04:12 PM
2. Hill$ong chicks don't put out.
I assume you are being humorous, but it sounds a little like the style of logic of many religious people adopt ie.:

Atheists don’t like religion,
Religion is like poetry,
Therefore atheists don’t like poetry.

Just saying.

owheelj
20th August 2010, 09:20 PM
I can't accept that a similar amount of religious girls (or guys) "put out" as secular girls. One group has a teaching that they shouldn't and the other doesn't. Even if only 5% listened to that teaching that would mean there'd be a difference between the two groups of 5%.

Anyway that's not an issue in my case.

nettybetty
20th August 2010, 09:36 PM
I assume you are being humorous, but it sounds a little like the style of logic of many religious people adopt ie.:

Atheists don’t like religion,
Religion is like poetry,
Therefore atheists don’t like poetry.

Just saying.

Slightly off topic, but I had someone try this on me the other day and it went one step further - the bible is full of beautiful poetry was one of the arguments for its truth....and yes I had fun with that one....

On a side note, I don't have issues with my partner, I have problems with family members who aren't religious but super apologetic, ie. you mention anything about being an atheist, and you are told you are disrespectful, and that you are as bad as the god-botherers because you ask questions (usually with some name-calling and personal ridicule thrown in)....it's a highly ignorant position of the both atheism and the religious, which I think can be at times even more infuriating.

Caio
20th August 2010, 10:22 PM
On a side note, I don't have issues with my partner, I have problems with family members who aren't religious but super apologetic, ie. you mention anything about being an atheist, and you are told you are disrespectful, and that you are as bad as the god-botherers because you ask questions....it's a highly ignorant position of the both atheism and the religious, which I think can be at times even more infuriating.

Agreed!! Luckily for me my girls parents are cool with me not being religious (although granted they don't know I'm on this forum, or my views on various religious matters), but in general religion just doesn't seem to come up...

slim
23rd August 2010, 10:36 AM
2. Hill$ong chicks don't put out.

End of relationship.

:)

Actually, they do.
Then they start to feel guilty, cry, and lapse in and out of breakup mode.

End result was identical though :D

wearestardust
23rd August 2010, 11:14 AM
It was the melodramatic guilt trips afterward that were hard to endure.


Exactly. and not necessarily just girls; as I've mentioned before on these forums, one of the key things I regret from my time as a young person of faith is the absolutely atrocious way I treated some women in terms of dumping them because I couldn't deal with my own guilt issues.

Senexis
23rd August 2010, 12:27 PM
Every time I see this thread I think of the Californication episode with Hank arse-fucking the tasty Scientologist chick. Is that wrong?

wearestardust
23rd August 2010, 12:32 PM
Every time I see this thread I think of the Californication episode with Hank arse-fucking the tasty Scientologist chick. Is that wrong?

I have to confess, I'm not a fan (of Californication, I mean). Are scientologists hung up on sex?

This does raise another disadvantage of dating theists. From what I recall, not only are they difficult about getting into bed, they are uptight (and not in a good way) about what one does there.

Edit: I was trying to work out the link between the original topic, and dealing with one of Mr Hubbard's finest contrary to nature: is it the word "dating"?

wolty
23rd August 2010, 12:33 PM
Every time I see this thread I think of the Californication episode with Hank arse-fucking the tasty Scientologist chick. Is that wrong?


No, I am quite sure you do think about that. :D

Annie
23rd August 2010, 03:38 PM
No, I am quite sure you do think about that. :D
Yup. Im quite sure you'd think about that too Senexis.:D

Senexis
23rd August 2010, 03:48 PM
http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Paula-Marshall-c01.jpg

Can you blame me?

DanDare
24th August 2010, 08:58 PM
Yummy.

That reminds me of the many catholic and greek orthodox girls I dated in my 20s. Those were some good times. :cool:

michalis
30th August 2010, 12:22 PM
http://images.starpulse.com/Photos/Previews/Paula-Marshall-c01.jpg

Can you blame me?
Just convert to christianity bro. ;)

Mr.PinkEyes
13th September 2010, 11:38 AM
for the last 12 months i have been dating a moderate Christian woman up just south of Nowra. she has 2 kids, a young daughter who is a non-House of Lies attending Christian and an 18 year old son who is i House of Lies attending Christian fanatic. my female friend and i have come extremely close to breaking up several times because i question and criticise her 'faith'. she says she has nothing to prove. but i disagree vehemently. she can't stand me questioning and criticising her 'faith'. she tries to gag me, censore me. a few times she has mentioned the possibility of her recommencing attendance at her local House of Lies. she is a wonderful woman who has fantastic morals but i've sometimes said to her that you do not need to align yourself to a religious group in order to justify those good morals. no religious group on Earth has any right to claim good morals as their own. you can be a good human being and do good things for humanity , like i am and she has said as much about me, without linking yourself to any particular religious organisation.

Seamus
13th September 2010, 12:31 PM
@Senexis.

My goodness,how can I put this delicately?

That young lady looks as if she could suck a golf ball through a garden hose. I guess whether she'd actually try is another matter entirely.:D

RealityRules
13th September 2010, 01:15 PM
... she can't stand me questioning and criticising her 'faith'. she tries to gag me, censore me.

she is a wonderful woman who has fantastic morals

Something's gonna give, and it is either your sniping, or your relationship.

Annie
13th September 2010, 06:00 PM
There's also the possibility that she may think through her beliefs. If she is a thinker that is.

Darwinsbulldog
13th September 2010, 06:45 PM
There's also the possibility that she may think through her beliefs. If she is a thinker that is.
She's not wearing a Crucifix:confused::confused:

Maybe she is just a "me too" Xian, believing it is good to believe, rather than really believing:confused::confused:
Those types are the easiest to turn into baby-eating atheists. :)

Master Blake
16th September 2010, 11:59 PM
dump her.

Praxis
17th September 2010, 12:10 AM
dump her.
You appear to have lost your shift key. Capitals are important. Read my sig quote.

Succinct advice, BTW.

Master Blake
17th September 2010, 12:16 AM
I assume succint means good advice.

Don't see point in dating a christian anyway. Dump her.

owheelj
17th September 2010, 03:35 PM
Can you elaborate? What is the "point" in dating a non-Christian?

I am slowly converting her anyway :D

RealityRules
17th September 2010, 03:48 PM
I am slowly converting her anyway :D

I think that that is what theisticly-minded Master Blake is concerned about

Sir Patrick Crocodile
24th September 2010, 08:54 AM
How ironic: the Catholics are providing some sound dating advice (http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=493752) too.

Sieveboy
24th September 2010, 05:12 PM
I like cats and I agree, in Australia they should be an indoor pet only.

I also am in this boat, my Girlfriend is church going believer (but not devout). She takes her daughter there to get some good values. I have pointed out to her that you don't need religion to have and learn good values, the little girl would do much better at home, but to no avail. It has already lead to one uncomfortable moment when I had an appendicitis scare, she brought the book i was reading at the time to hospital. The book happened to be "God is not great, how religion poisons everything" needless to say the little 7 year old told me I was blaspheming. I wanted to tell her she was talking tripe, but i bit my tongue as I wasn't in the mood for a fight (being off food and on a drip which wasn't pushing enough fluids in). The look from the GF wasn't much better "we will talk later". Fortunately, she hasn't talked to me later about it, but it could get ugly.

Here are the weird parts: she has already cottoned on to the fact that some churches in my area are full of wanker snobs who pass judgment on her as a single mother (without knowing what the background story is); and she is a born again Xian (yes yes i know). She also goes in for a bit of the Chris Robbins talking to the dead BS and other similar spirtuality crap. I would very much like her to open her mind to the reality of the BS she is following.

Generally I avoid this topic with her, this relationship has been far better than many of my other efforts, but the rare comment like "believing in God makes me happy" sets the teeth on edge. Again I bit the tongue on pointing out that god is no more real if god makes you happy or unhappy.

Senexis, a very tidy lady mate.

Oh if your ever in hospital, try parecetamol thorugh a drip FANTASTIC stuff.

Pastafarian
24th September 2010, 07:28 PM
In answer to the topic I would date a Christian but it wouldn't last long, I'd be too busy arguing with her about God to actually have a decent relationship :P

wolty
24th September 2010, 07:30 PM
In answer to the topic I would date a Christian but it wouldn't last long, I'd be too busy arguing with her about God to actually have a decent relationship :P


You have no idea how profound that reply is.

Pastafarian
24th September 2010, 07:33 PM
You have no idea how profound that reply is.

I am confused. Sarcasm or not? (I'd bet on sarcasm)

wolty
24th September 2010, 07:36 PM
I am confused. Sarcasm or not? (I'd bet on sarcasm)


No, mate. I should have explained. Sorry.

You will find many here have had relationships go pear shaped because of a sudden interest in gud or woo. It is a very difficullt siituation for all involved.

Sir Patrick Crocodile
24th September 2010, 07:46 PM
wolty, you are an inspiration. How your relationship lasts as long as it does is one question puzzles me, and I think you're very brave to be able to survive through that.

I presume there are a lot of good times you guys have that we don't hear about on these forums?

Xeno
24th September 2010, 07:53 PM
I presume there are a lot of good times you guys have that we don't hear about on these forums?and some of them we don't want to, thanks awfully :p

Deanus-Maximus
24th September 2010, 08:14 PM
In answer to the topic I would date a Christian but it wouldn't last long, I'd be too busy arguing with her about God to actually have a decent relationship :P
No, mate. I should have explained. Sorry.

You will find many here have had relationships go pear shaped because of a sudden interest in gud or woo. It is a very difficullt siituation for all involved.
Agreed - it takes a certain level of enlightenment &/or self awareness to realise that. You've successfully restored part of my faith in our species's ability to achieve this kind of awareness.
For that you can only be immeasurably thanked. :D

Pastafarian
26th September 2010, 10:58 AM
No, mate. I should have explained. Sorry.

You will find many here have had relationships go pear shaped because of a sudden interest in gud or woo. It is a very difficullt siituation for all involved.

No worries. That does sound difficult :/
It's a harder question than I first thought.

clementine
5th January 2011, 07:53 PM
it's a huge turn off for me :/ i don't think i could... unless he looked like mads mikkelsen.

simonecuttlefish
5th January 2011, 08:32 PM
Would you?

What if they were only moderately - rarely went to church, had very similar values and interests to you apart from their religious belief?

I only ask because I've met a girl like that. She knows I'm an atheist, but not that I'm the president of my university atheist society :P

I'd suggest when dating a Christian, you follow the standard rules. Get them comfortable and very relaxed. You will need them relaxed, because sphincter muscles can easily lock up and make penetration painful, dangerous, or extremely difficult, if you are lucky. A good quality water based lubricant is also needed. "Dating" takes time and commitment, but if they are happy for it to happen, then you should find a way. Has your partner had an enema? This can help to prevent nasty little surprises and can be used as a foreplay technique, especially if you look good in a nurses outfit. Should a little accident happen, you can lighten the situation and relieve embarrassment with a little joke like this one I use.

Q: What's the difference between a microwave oven and anal sex?
A: A microwave won't brown your meat.

It's always a giggle and should make it easier to sashay off to the shower to finish the business off - don't make the water too hot though as shit flavoured clouds of steam can be distracting in their own special way.

This is the preliminary lesson on "DATING" a Christian. If you would like more advanced lessons, please let me know, and I can make a short video tutorial if you would like and post it here.

Onlyatheory?
5th January 2011, 08:56 PM
Had a girlfriend that found Jesus after 2.5 years of dating (not the kind mentioned above;)). The relationship slowly went sour afterwards. Was bloody gut-wrenching. Vowed I would treat any religion as a deal breaker since then.
Having said that, I have had plenty of my clients with religeous/atheist mixed relationships that seem to go well. None of the believers in these instances have seemed to be overwhelmingly so though.
By the way, has anyone looked into a correlation between atheism and cat-loving (again, not in the ways mentioned above:D), because.....well.......DAMN there are a lot of you.

Lord Blackadder
5th January 2011, 09:06 PM
By the way, has anyone looked into a correlation between atheism and cat-loving (again, not in the ways mentioned above:D), because.....well.......DAMN there are a lot of you.

"I meant," said Ipslore bitterly, "what is there in this world that truly makes living worth while?"
Death though about it. "Cats," he said eventually. "Cats are nice."
- Terry Pratchett

Fearless
5th January 2011, 09:58 PM
I just rescued another three kittens yesterday... this will make it about 14 kittens cared for and hand raised in the last 3 years.

I'd keep all of them if I could... I guess that makes me an atheist :p

Worldslaziestbusker
5th January 2011, 10:04 PM
By the way, has anyone looked into a correlation between atheism and cat-loving (again, not in the ways mentioned above:D), because.....well.......DAMN there are a lot of you.

Having cats and loving them are separate phenomena.

Mjt
5th January 2011, 10:22 PM
I married one (a christian not a cat although cats are nice) 28 years ago. Best thing I ever did. He is a great person, who lets me do whatever I like. We have four kiddies all of whome are equally awsome. He has always been Catholic I have always been Atheist. It has caused very few problems. I remember one fight about whether or not the children HAD to go to church with him (he was going through one of those catholic guilt trip periods where they think they should be going to church) I won of course and we went to the beach instead. As we get older (did I mention that I got married really young. I mean really young) he becomes more christian and I become more atheist. The arguments now tend to surround my funeral (tickets are going fast, dont miss out). So as I keep telling him he will have to die first, save a lot of trouble. But that isnt going to happen I dont think, and it actually has become a problem. We have always managed to sort our other crap out, and this will be no different. So grab you christian girl if you like her and go for it. You may well find there is more to her. We have actually been together for 32 years. As I said really really young, probably wasnt even born yet.

Lord Blackadder
5th January 2011, 10:24 PM
Having cats and loving them are separate phenomena.

You never really "own" a cat. Sure, you feed it, let it fart on your pillows and clean its litter box, but that doesn't denote ownship. Actually, just looking at what I typed there, it's more like the little bastards pwn you.

I think (and this is just my opinion) that the reason cats appeal to the thinking person is that, unlike your typical dog, a cat is not a follower. A cat will do as they please and the rest of the world can take it or leave it. They will drive you mad by being an enigma wrapped in a mystery tied up in a conundrum, but when a cat curls up on your lap and falls asleep, purring contently like a small diesel engine, you know that all is right with the world.

Then the little bastards will walk on your keyboard an gvirhc
65409yw-0-45q4gg5))55***cmqwq-34vebhnl
":OL

In the end, a cat will walk by himself and do as he pleases. Just So (http://boop.org/jan/justso/cat.htm).

Worldslaziestbusker
5th January 2011, 10:30 PM
They will drive you mad by being an enigma wrapped in a mystery tied up in a conundrum

One of mine is a swave and deboner rat dispatcher but the other is a misery wrapped in an enema. Can't use a litter box. If she didn't catch spiders for me, she'd be in trouble.

Senexis
10th July 2011, 09:51 PM
Would you?

What if they were only moderately - rarely went to church, had very similar values and interests to you apart from their religious belief?

I only ask because I've met a girl like that. She knows I'm an atheist, but not that I'm the president of my university atheist society :P

So how did this pan out, anyways? I realise this is threadromancy, but I'm kinda curious because I've recently begun seeing a young lady of a vaguely Christian persuasion. I say vague to describe my knowledge of the details (she's Eastern European, so could be Catholic or some sort of Orthodox), not her persuasion - she has a cross tattooed on her abdomen.

Anyway, I'm relaxing my previously-held position on fundamental (pardon the pun) differences, and crossing the floor to (hopefully) stand with Mjt. Yes, I am a self-serving hypocrite at times. Ok, often.

So I'm curious at to how this instance turned out!

Lilith
10th July 2011, 10:00 PM
she has a cross tattooed on her abdomen.



I'll take a stab and guess she's not jewish..:p

Senexis
10th July 2011, 10:03 PM
Ten points for you!

Serbian, so probably Orthodox, but you can never be sure. My Greek boss is Catholic.

Lilith
10th July 2011, 10:20 PM
I know very little about Serbia, but it appears that the religious groups there are clustered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia#Religion), so you could probably ask her which town she is from and be able to guess, if you didn't want to have the "So honey, which brand of delusion do you like?" conversation with her.

I think branding her with any religious tag without talking to her about it first to ascertain her actual views is a little unfair though... I'd sure hate anybody to decide things about me based on my catholic family history or geographic misfortune.

I give "ask her" my vote.. :p

Worldslaziestbusker
11th July 2011, 07:20 AM
I think branding her with any religious tag without talking to her about it first to ascertain her actual views is a little unfair though...

No brand needed if she's already tattoed herself.
I'll get my coat.

Lilith
11th July 2011, 08:40 AM
No brand needed if she's already tattoed herself.
I'll get my coat.


Oh very dear, Mr WLB.

Senexis
11th July 2011, 10:41 PM
No brand needed if she's already tattoed herself.
I'll get my coat.

And talking about getting another.

I'm not really judging or pigeonholing. When I want to know, I'll ask. It's not something I've brought up because, to be honest, it's not the most important thing on my mind right now. And it probably won't be an issue, there doesn't seem to be any churchgoing, so perhaps it's more a cultural relic than anything else.

At this point it's early days and just fun. As it always is at the start. And who knows what's down the road, there are multiple complications every where you look, with kids, work, families, etc etc.

But I am finding it interesting, just how little any potential woo matters to me, all of a sudden.

Logic
12th July 2011, 08:55 AM
But I am finding it interesting, just how little any potential woo matters to me, all of a sudden.

Perhaps you are thinking with the wrong head? :p

Mother of Chaos
12th July 2011, 07:48 PM
Hell it worked for my parents, Dad was a atheist from an Irish catholic back ground. Mum was C of E. A few years after they had married Mum converts to being a catholic. Dad used to laugh about it. Four kids all atheist and by the time Mum died she was to. :)

Lilith
12th July 2011, 08:43 PM
Best of luck with it, Senexis :)

Senexis
13th July 2011, 04:22 AM
Yeah, cheers everyone.

Cute smilies, too. ;)

wearestardust
13th July 2011, 11:18 AM
But I am finding it interesting, just how little any potential woo matters to me, all of a sudden.

I suspect this is one of those cases where "christian" admits of a wide range of meanings. I dn't mean denomination, but the extent it influences their life on the spectrum from full on fundie who prays about what breakfast cereal to have (example not made up) to person who espouses belief but in pratice might as well be an atheist. I'm not sure that believing in woo is a problem in itself (but see below) but the extent to which its influence on how she lives and how much of a constraint on her life (and indirectly yours) it is going to be.

A tattoo straightaway suggests some kind of relaxedness about the rules, given tattoos are banned immediately after homosexuality in Leviticus, IIRC.

The 'but see below' is whether you can resist for the length of the relationship having a frank conversation about belief and rationality.

P.S. I thought you'd forsworn relationships?;) And will you be able to admit this to George?

Senexis
13th July 2011, 03:12 PM
I had forsworn, yes. But life has a way of chucking random surprises in your path when you are neither looking nor expecting.

And I'm telling George tonight.

Senexis
13th July 2011, 03:13 PM
Well-spotted, by the way ;)

girifox
14th July 2011, 05:44 PM
Dating: sure, if you have no interest in children with them.

If parenting is any kind of possibility, then no, do not date a christian. The issues that arise are too profound and important for parents to have different values. (ie. We value rational thought and no brainwashing, they won't)

Senexis
14th July 2011, 06:06 PM
Absolutely agree. Happily, no chance of any kids. She has two, I have three and a vasectomy.

;)

girifox
14th July 2011, 08:04 PM
wow, that lady is young looking for a mother of two (presume the photo you posted is one and the same).

Senexis
15th July 2011, 03:44 AM
No, no, the pic is of Hank Moody's Scientologist playmate from Californication.

I wouldn't say she was young, though. My former de-facto daughter-in-law is 22 and a mother of two.

The young lady I'm talking about is 35.

Marcus Aurelius
15th July 2011, 10:18 AM
My gf for the last 18 months is Buddhist, and I find it to be very stable when it comes to conflicts of belief. They just don't happen at all. Sometimes she has some notion of spirits bothering her, but it's very benign and it doesn't bother me at all.

I can't imagine dating a born-again Christian, that would be utter torture. :eek:

Life's Good
16th July 2011, 08:08 PM
I am happy to give my 5 cents worth on the dating subject. The old expression use to be my 2 cents worth, but in today's money, that makes it worthless!

Internet dating allows one to 'examine the merchandise' by viewing someone's profile before deciding to meet up. We all list various details about ourselves, such as where we live, what we want, hobbies, attitudes and a hundred other things. Religion is always a category and most people state something. It disturbs me a little that atheist is a less common statement than almost all other options. I list Atheist as I have always been honest in my descriptions and it has the advantage of normally keeping the true believers from contacting me. Not always.

With 6 years experience on the net and meeting up with dozens and dozens of women from all walks of life (and like so many others doing internet dating thing, I have all the usual horror stories about meeting up with kooks and ratbags) I have found that there are certain categories of religion to best avoid.

Don't even think of New Age as they are exact opposites of Atheists (in my opinion, anyway). 'Other' religion often means the Hillsong Church devotees (see New Age comment above). Catholic and Anglican are safe options, as they seem to attract the least attention. Islam / Muslim are rarely mentioned as non Muslims wont go out with them, so they normally list themselves as other or unspecified. Ironically, I met a Muslim woman on a date and she was lovely. It is one of the few regrets in my dating life that I did not see her again after the first date, when she told me her religion. I am normally tolerant, but if one is looking at the possibility of this potential relationship becoming a long term thing, then there could be problems. Some of the lessons I have learnt when dating on the Net, have been a trial and error process. Usually more error than anything else.

In short, it is an individual attitude thing. For those of us that are closer to 100 than zero, where there are no dependant children and few family issues involved, I am thinking that people in my situation would have more chance of making a mixed religion relationship work, generally speaking. It is an interesting concept.

Tolerance works both ways and I am well aware of that. But at the end of the day, I know my limitations with true believers and it will always be a problem for me to have someone in my life that has blind faith and does not question. In all honesty, if I was in this situation, I would rather be on my own. As the old saying goes, always be true to yourself.

Anyways, that is what I think.

Darwinsbulldog
17th July 2011, 02:16 AM
The only dating I like to do with Xian women is to find out if they are a YEC or Old Earth Creationist. OEC's are slightly more tolerable than YECs. :(

DMJ
17th July 2011, 08:49 AM
Hi Guys, Well this is one where I guess can be tricky. I am currently in this kind of relationship. first we have been open and honest, right from the start. I let her know I was an atheist, she let me know she was a christian. I must say that over time she has seen my honesty as something she has respect for and has now doubts about the church all of her own. she no longer goes to church. but she still believes and sees it as her own conviction to pray in her own time. I really love this woman and she is the same. I think belief can be subdued for love.

I won't say it has never been a topic of discussion but when ever it is we openly talk calmly about it and respect each other for who they are, not what we believe.
I have never had such a loving caring relationship before. and I have found this to be very understanding. I can be at times very pro atheist, and it still works.
So best of luck to you, just be honest and open...:)

Jaar-Gilon
17th July 2011, 09:40 AM
Love can be a cunt sometimes.

Senexis
17th July 2011, 05:38 PM
Hi Guys, Well this is one where I guess can be tricky. I am currently in this kind of relationship. first we have been open and honest, right from the start. I let her know I was an atheist, she let me know she was a christian. I must say that over time she has seen my honesty as something she has respect for and has now doubts about the church all of her own. she no longer goes to church. but she still believes and sees it as her own conviction to pray in her own time. I really love this woman and she is the same. I think belief can be subdued for love.

I won't say it has never been a topic of discussion but when ever it is we openly talk calmly about it and respect each other for who they are, not what we believe.
I have never had such a loving caring relationship before. and I have found this to be very understanding. I can be at times very pro atheist, and it still works.
So best of luck to you, just be honest and open...:)

Cheers, that's some good advice. At the moment I'm blowing her away with how open and honest I am, just the way I roll, but apparently it's rare.

It's early days, but it feels like this is how it's going to turn out. Fingers crossed!

Logic please
17th July 2011, 08:05 PM
@Senexis: you've already received plenty of good suggestions in this thread...

...so I'm just going to wish you all the best with it. Hope you are both very happy. :)

Bolero
17th July 2011, 10:03 PM
I suspect my response in this thread will be a bit biased. I was married to Xtian for 9 years, but it hasn't worked out - almost entirely due to the religion aspect. At first I thought love would conquer all. I was wrong.

The ONLY piece of advice I could give here that would be useful would be to be honest with yourself. If a difference of worldviews truly doesn't matter to you, great. But if there is that little part of your brain that says ... "Wouldn't it be great if she/he came round to my way of thinking...?", then I can tell you now that bit only gets stronger and stronger as the relationship goes on and the love/lust fades. Personal projection, maybe, but just check yourself for this kind of thinking, is all.

(Also, JG there are some circumstances where dating a Christian is actually very very nice, and love is not such a cunt... :D)

clementine
18th July 2011, 12:03 PM
:(

Formerly I wouldn't have considered it... But I've developed a sort of e-relationship with a Russian who turned out to be Orthodox :rolleyes: Now, as long as he doesn't bring up owt to do with Xtianity I find myself attracted to him, but if he says anything at all related to his religion I find myself turned off. It's such a pity! :p! I only want a non-religious European man with a sexy voice -- is that too much to ask? :mad:

c2105026
19th July 2011, 09:20 PM
My 2 bob......I would only really want to go out with one who is not aligned with any organised religion. As such I am open to unitarians, general and unaligned gnostics, agnostics, and atheists. I know that love can conquer all and may be fine up til the marriage. As an uber-atheist I will refuse a xtian church wedding (but for shits and giggles may be open to a satanic, hindu, muslim or buddhist wedding). But....what does one do with the kids? Will they be baptised, go to sunday school? So much potential conflict that could be avoided.

Mantrid
19th July 2011, 10:01 PM
I just couldn't date someone with such a brain defect. They'll constantly be at you to come to church and convert. They'll talk to their church friends about how to get you to see "the truth"...

I've seen too many friends dragged into religion by their partners. Pretty much all of them were fence-sitting males and their pretty girlfriends got them to attend church... before you know it, they're brainwashed too. Although I've had a few that admitted they're only going to church with them because they put out (ironic, no?)... the relationships never lasted though.

Bolero
20th July 2011, 07:31 AM
My 2 bob......I would only really want to go out with one who is not aligned with any organised religion. As such I am open to unitarians, general and unaligned gnostics, agnostics, and atheists. I know that love can conquer all and may be fine up til the marriage. As an uber-atheist I will refuse a xtian church wedding (but for shits and giggles may be open to a satanic, hindu, muslim or buddhist wedding). But....what does one do with the kids? Will they be baptised, go to sunday school? So much potential conflict that could be avoided.

The point about kids is a really important one. I didn't seriously start thinking things were going nowhere in my relationship until the kids were old enough to ask questions like "Who was the first human?" or "Why aren't there dinosaurs around today?" ... at which point I realised that hubby and I had WILDLY different ways of answering those questions, and could see that his answers were fantasy lies, and damaging to the way my children think.

No matter how much you love someone, if they are damaging to your children in any way, you lose respect for them pretty quickly, and love follows soon after that.

pierrenoir
20th July 2011, 08:53 PM
For what its worth I got engaged at Xmas last year to a Catholic girl from Ireland who I have been with for the last 12 years. I wouldnt dream of trying to bring her round to my point of view as the (religious) roots are simply too deep. You cannot walk away from family regardless of how strong the reason is.

c2105026
21st July 2011, 10:31 PM
Pierrenoir, that is fantastic you appear to have found your soul mate. But...if I can ask have you discussed what will happen if/when you have kids? Like, will they be baptised, confirmed etc?

pierrenoir
23rd July 2011, 02:21 PM
Pierrenoir, that is fantastic you appear to have found your soul mate. But...if I can ask have you discussed what will happen if/when you have kids? Like, will they be baptised, confirmed etc?

Thanks for asking, we already have a son and he was taken back to Ireland to be baptised (Catholic). I am going to trust he can make his own mind up as he is certainly not being indoctrinated. My partner is a Catholic sure but not reallly, if it was all genuflecting and the wounds of Jesus we probably would not have got this far. We have nut case who lives over the road from us who brought a booklet home from her church for my son to read which was called "by his wounds are you healed". I picked it up and threw it in the bin in front of her and said under no circumstances is any abusive literature of that kind to be brought into our house. Its all managable

c2105026
23rd July 2011, 04:24 PM
Thanks for asking, we already have a son and he was taken back to Ireland to be baptised (Catholic). I am going to trust he can make his own mind up as he is certainly not being indoctrinated. My partner is a Catholic sure but not reallly, if it was all genuflecting and the wounds of Jesus we probably would not have got this far. We have nut case who lives over the road from us who brought a booklet home from her church for my son to read which was called "by his wounds are you healed". I picked it up and threw it in the bin in front of her and said under no circumstances is any abusive literature of that kind to be brought into our house. Its all managable

Given the situation of mixed household faiths this is an entirely fair approach :)

Jaar-Gilon
25th July 2011, 03:44 PM
(Also, JG there are some circumstances where dating a Christian is actually very very nice, and love is not such a cunt... :D)
:) Yes you are quite right. ;)

deesl4e
25th July 2011, 06:00 PM
Pierrenoir, that is fantastic you appear to have found your soul mate.

Just curious. What do you mean by this ?

Logic
25th July 2011, 08:35 PM
:) Yes you are quite right. ;)

Thank goodness Melbourne is so far from Brisbane or we'd have to put up with even more of this :p

Bolero
26th July 2011, 07:00 PM
Thank goodness Melbourne is so far from Brisbane or we'd have to put up with even more of this :p
Or less... I mean, there'd be less reason to do it online.... ;)

Ahem.

[/derail]

wolty
26th July 2011, 07:05 PM
Or less... I mean, there'd be less reason to do it online.... ;)

Ahem.

[/derail]

Do what?

Bolero
26th July 2011, 07:14 PM
Do what?
Dude, [/derail] already. :p

wolty
26th July 2011, 07:24 PM
Heh. Annie said I should expect a 'fuck off wolty'.

You've hurt my feelings.

Bolero
26th July 2011, 07:31 PM
Heh. Annie said I should expect a 'fuck off wolty'.

You've hurt my feelings.
No, no. Not a fuck off in sight. Consider feelings intact. :D

Senexis
1st August 2011, 06:09 AM
Ok, religion reared its head last night. Not sure how it started, but my 6yo and her 6yo were arguing about God.

Mine: Gods aren't real
Hers: Yes they are
Mine: No they're not

Me (fixing the keys on the laptop my 2yo had pulled off... little bitch):
Son, come here.

I then explained to him that different people believe different things, and we have to respect that. After all, his grandparents and cousins (the rest of my nuclear family bar me) believe in God, and while we don't, we still respect their beliefs. Off he went, crisis averted.

Me (to girlfriend): Sorry about that.
Her: The God thing? Meh, I don't care, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

So, respect points all around, and I think an interesting (not in a bad way) road ahead. Mine still believe in Santa, hers don't. So there's another probably inevitable point of contention between the two 6yos coming along in not too long.

I think both of us are so very impressed with each other and cognizant of the fact that a worldview/faith isn't going to keep you warm at night. So I think it'll be ok, plus probably a good thing for the kids to see some tolerance for each other's stuff.

girifox
4th August 2011, 07:55 AM
You probably handled as best you can. I think your situation is one of those where "respect their beliefs" is a sensible position for kids.

Centauri
4th August 2011, 02:30 PM
I would phrase it as "they should be allowed to have their private beliefs". I wouldn't tell a child to respect belief, rather I'd suggest they look at the evidence in helping them make up their own mind.

Respect is a big word, and the religious already think their belief system is entitled to it automatically, which they aren't.

Bolero
4th August 2011, 02:33 PM
I would phrase it as "they should be allowed to have their private beliefs". I wouldn't tell a child to respect belief, rather I'd suggest they look at the evidence in helping them make up their own mind.

Respect is a big word, and the religious already think their belief system is entitled to it automatically, which they aren't.
I would tend to agree with you on this one, Centauri, my friend. It's an important distiction in my opinion.

Senexis
4th August 2011, 03:46 PM
Yeah, good point Centauri.

And as Bolero says, an important distinction.

Cheers for that!

wearestardust
4th August 2011, 05:31 PM
I think we have to respect people's right to have belief, ie this:

I then explained to him that different people believe different things, and we have to respect that.

The problem is, as has been noted, that theists tend to insist that respecting their right to believe beliefs means agreeing with them and allowing them the right to insist on society being organised the way they want it. But that's another story.

Senexis
4th August 2011, 07:55 PM
Hey WAS (waves),

Absolutely right, I also referred to respecting my folks' beliefs, when I should have been more exact and said their right to beliefs. It's a good point, and a little exactitude pins the wigglers down.

By the way, you may be pleased to know it's going very swimmingly. The kids are all getting along super-well, and the team's travelling for an away preseason scrimmage over the weekend, with the lady concerned coming along to cheer on this lion in winter.

Good times.

wolty
4th August 2011, 09:34 PM
Nice to know senexis.
Annie and I do the home scrimmage regularly.

wearestardust
5th August 2011, 07:58 PM
Annie and I do the home scrimmage regularly.

How many players of Pacific Islander origin in your scrimmages? And does the furniture get damaged?

wolty
5th August 2011, 08:01 PM
How many players of Pacific Islander origin in your scrimmages? And does the furniture get damaged?

Hehehe none.
We also call it aggressive cuddling or enthusiastic hugging.

Furniture sometimes gets damaged.

Logic please
10th August 2011, 11:24 PM
Hehehe none.
We also call it aggressive cuddling or enthusiastic hugging.

Furniture sometimes gets damaged.
Heh. :D

Then don't cuddle the furniture so aggressively. It might last longer, that way... :p;):D

Otherwise, you might have to go back to Ikea more often... :eek::D:)

Centauri
17th August 2011, 07:14 AM
Then don't cuddle the furniture so aggressively.


:D:D:D nice one :D

Spae
20th August 2011, 12:00 AM
Would you?

What if they were only moderately - rarely went to church, had very similar values and interests to you apart from their religious belief?

Well I really don't see how that's possible.. So, no. It would annoy me.

A spiritual person i'd be fine with. But not one that follows an organised religion.

AFA Admin
20th August 2011, 09:09 AM
Hi Spae

This is a message sent to all who find their way to these forums.

We like people, and we like facts too!

We're friendly but we're skeptical, and if somebody calls for proof, it's not an accusation. Only the strong ideas thrive here: we try to respect people. (We do not tolerate personal abuse.)

If you're an AFA member and need your membership status recognised in forum access, please send a Private Message to Admin (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=13), including the name on your AFA membership.

You may already have visited these other handy places:
* New Member Information (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=12)
* Welcome from AFA president (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=18)
* For those interested in learning, I recommend the Atheism Resource Thread (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=7608) maintained by Fearless.
* And a quick look at our reserved spot for belief-based discussion, Fantasy Island (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16), includes The Great Big List (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=4784), a sort-of "things we've seen before" for those of faith, and general rules of argument for the forum.

If you've got questions, please ask. Moderators have red name tags, but many of our friendly people may have the answers you need.

Enjoy the forums. We hope to see plenty from you in discussions.

Have fun.

Xeno
20th August 2011, 09:37 AM
Hello Spae. Youcould always start a new thread on dating spiritual people, and tell us what you mean by it.

SchrodingersWombat
28th August 2011, 05:19 PM
This would be the situation I am currently in.

I got together with this girl I'd been acquainted with for about 15 years, but never knew her family were creationists. I was already too emotionally invested to back out by the time I figured it out, so I figured I'd try my best to educate them. Failing that I'd cut and run.

It's been two years now, and due to my ability to ingratiate myself to people who would otherwise recoil from an atheist, the family loves me. She's warming up to theistic evolution now, but I'm starting to see the cracks appear in the Wall of Faith as I educate her more and more about the history of the Church and how the Bible was made (it helps to be able to out-preach the fundies). Due to a long story I won't bore you all with, her family's fundamentalism is driving her sister and herself further away from the faith every day.

We've talked about marriage and kids, and agreed to a compromise. She's allowed to take them to church, so long as she explicitly states it's what SHE believes in, not what they HAVE to believe in. In the meantime we've agreed that I will teach them comparative religion for every other faith I can think of, and when they're old enough to decide what they think about religious matters they can make that choice for themselves. No christianings, no baptisms, no Jesus Camps. If I even get an inkling they are being taught they're going to Hell by the extended family I won't be letting that shit fly.

We love each other enough to make it work, but I'd be lying if I said it was easy. I have enough confidence in my ability to impart wonder and awe that even if she did break the agreement down the line (however unlikely), there's not a snowball's chance in hell my kids won't pick rationalism when the time comes.

Wyz
6th September 2011, 04:56 PM
Would you?

What if they were only moderately - rarely went to church, had very similar values and interests to you apart from their religious belief?

I only ask because I've met a girl like that. She knows I'm an atheist, but not that I'm the president of my university atheist society :P

I've been married twice. The first marriage ended when she met somebody else at church! The second wife believes in God but is not a church goer. Its one of those things we don't talk about and that's fine.