What came first? The Chicken or the Egg?

[GenericBox]

Yes, it is an age ol' question. But I thought for some fun, let's see what us atheists think about it.

To me, I do not even see the dilemna. I cannot understand how there can even be a pondering about it. I just feel like its common sense that there is an answer.

The Egg came first.

I rationalise that with, you don't need a chicken, to lay a chicken egg.

Or more scientifically, you do not need a Gallus gallus to produce an egg that may hatch a Gallus gallus.

But what do y'all think. The chicken? or the egg?

[eclectic]

well, yes, I guess there must have been an egg-laying ancestor of a chicken that eventually laid an egg with a chicken inside. so yeah, egg first.

For a creationist it would have to be chicken first. I love the image I get of just an egg sitting there by itself, with a chicken ready to hatch out of it.

[eclectic]

there's a good comic on this one actually, but I can't find it...

[eclectic]

If only an egg that will hatch into a chicken can be considered a chicken egg: Then a re-consideration of the original question suggests: Some animal other than a chicken laid the first chicken egg which contained the first chicken. In this case the chicken egg came before the chicken. In reality, many scientific theories suggest that this would not have been a simple event. For example, the theory of punctuated equilibrium theorizes that the actual speciation of an organism from its ancestral species is usually the result of many mutations combined with new geographical surroundings, called cladogenesis.
* If only an egg laid by a chicken can be considered a chicken egg: Then a re-consideration of the original question suggests: The first chicken (which hatched from a non-chicken egg) laid the first chicken egg. In this case the chicken came before the chicken egg. Again, this would not necessarily be a straightforward event.



from wikipedia, but good nonetheless

[SchizoDeluxe]

I always looked at it from an evolutionary point of view in that the chicken came first, that it evolved from something else. I don't know enough about the origin of birds and chickens and all the rest to base that on anything, just an educated guess I suppose. My argument on the egg coming first would be where did the egg come from?

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

I always looked at it from an evolutionary point of view in that the chicken came first, that it evolved from something else. I don't know enough about the origin of birds and chickens and all the rest to base that on anything, just an educated guess I suppose. My argument on the egg coming first would be where did the egg come from?

"Oi'd never touch anything that's been in an animal's mouth!"

The Irishman at the cafe table, having berated his companion for choosing the tongue sandwich, resumed studying his newspaper. Eventually, the waitress arrived and asked for his order.

"Boiled egg, please!"

If the idea that chickens are descended from dinosaurs hold any water, then an egg-laying transitional critter laid an egg that hatched a chicken.

[SchizoDeluxe]

"Oi'd never touch anything that's been in an animal's mouth!"

The Irishman at the cafe table, having berated his companion for choosing the tongue sandwich, resumed studying his newspaper. Eventually, the waitress arrived and asked for his order.

"Boiled egg, please!"

If the idea that chickens are descended from dinosaurs hold any water, then an egg-laying transitional critter laid an egg that hatched a chicken.

Makes sense, I did read once that even though evolution occurs over long periods of time, there are also leaps in the process.

[Protium]

The cells must exist before they can divide and multiply so I guess the chicken came first.

[Jaar-Gilon]

If the idea that chickens are descended from dinosaurs hold any water, then an egg-laying transitional critter laid an egg that hatched a chicken.

Therapods appear to be the ancestors of birds especially the dromaesaurs which include Velociraptors (incidently rather poorly portrayed in J park as in reality they were only about the size of a turkey) and Deinonychus very similar but larger than veloceraptor. The earliest known bird species ie: classified as Aves, Archaeopteryx, had very much in common with these icluding three clawed toes, killing claws (a hyperextendable second toe), jaws with sharp teeth as well as lightweight air filled bones, a wishbone, feathers and a long bony tail - to wit, the wishbone, light air filled bones and of course feathers are common with modern birds. It also had wings as a bird rather than arms of a therapod and a partially reversed fist toe.

For those who insist that there are no "missing links" to support evolution Archaeopteryx is a perfect foil!

To note the feathers dicovered as fossils with Archaeopteryx are well advanced and very similar to flight feathers in modern birds which suggests they had been evolving for some time and also feathers suggest homiothermy.

Pterodactyls or Pterosaurs were not the progenitors of birds and technically speaking not dinosaurs (which were a certain type of terrestrial reptiles with a unique gait or upright stance), though they share a common ancestor with dinosaurs, ancestors of dinosaurs were the archosauromorph diapsid(two holes in the skull) type reptile.

It is interesting to note that, cladistically speaking, crocodiles (crocodilia) and birds (aves) are in the same subcategory (Archosaurus) so as far as taxonomical biologists are concerned birds are a type of dinosaur!

So my answer to which came first the chicken or the egg is...........the crocodile aha hah ahahaha

Makes sense, I did read once that even though evolution occurs over long periods of time, there are also leaps in the process.

It is an interesting (if you're a biology nerd.....Damn! Guilty!) and ongoing controversy in the world of evolution as to the mechanism of change mainly between punctuated equilibrium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuated_equalibrium)and phyletic gradualism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyletic_gradualism). Personally I think that the process of evolution involves both.

[Fiery]

So my answer to which came first the chicken or the egg is...........the crocodile aha hah ahahaha

Ah ah ahhhhh!!!! Don't you mean the crocoduck?

http://searchwarp.com/UserImages/142909/crocoduck.jpg

GAWD!!! Don't you just want to slap his smug little face???? He's just so disingenusouly perplexed. EWWWWW!!!!!!!!


*Thank you to RichardDawkins.net for hosting this image.
*Thank you to Searchwarp.com for hosting the image
Thank you to User Image # 142909 for uploading the image.

[Jaar-Gilon]

Ah ah ahhhhh!!!! Don't you mean the crocoduck?

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa144/Primate_bucket/crocoduck.jpg

GAWD!!! Don't you just want to slap his smug little face???? He's just so disingenusouly perplexed. EWWWWW!!!!!!!!

Bugger! Can't see the picture Fiery but crocoduck sounds like a damn good mascot for my cricket team next year.........would perfectly supplant the crocoshit we had this year!


Duh!! just google crocoduck dopey!..............
http://thoughtfulrepublican.com/2008/0426/kirk-cameron-crocoduck-0426.jpg
AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EEFING Kirk Cameron!! Looks like maybe ray comfort is out of frame "doing" something to his toilet area!

[GUDLUSS]

http://thoughtfulrepublican.com/2008/0426/kirk-cameron-crocoduck-0426.jpg

Um...

[Jaar-Gilon]

Um...

Well, I'm nothing if not inconsiderate hahaha
Should've known it had something to do with conservative right, prepared to put up a pic of kirk cameron in a positive light :rolleyes:
Would understand if it was a photo, but a screenshot from the TV. I wonder if they credited it when they put it on their site?

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Well, I'm nothing if not inconsiderate hahaha
Should've known it had something to do with conservative right, prepared to put up a pic of kirk cameron in a positive light :rolleyes:
Would understand if it was a photo, but a screenshot from the TV. I wonder if they credited it when they put it on their site?
http://oldearth.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/crocoduck.jpg
Of course, they're just parading in borrowed plumes, as the original crocoduck came from Worth1000.com (http://www.worth1000.com/default.asp) - ain't nothing like a bit of hypocrisy to grease the wheels!

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Looky here (http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/03/05/dinosaur-chicken.html)!

Some of the world's leading paleontologists are attempting to recreate a dinosaur (http://dsc.discovery.com/dinosaurs/) -- or something a lot like a dinosaur -- by starting with a chicken embryo and working backward to engineer a "chickenosaurus" or "dinochicken," project leader Jack Horner told Discovery News.

[SchizoDeluxe]

http://oldearth.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/crocoduck.jpg
Of course, they're just parading in borrowed plumes, as the original crocoduck came from Worth1000.com (http://www.worth1000.com/default.asp) - ain't nothing like a bit of hypocrisy to grease the wheels!

Whát's that thing it's carrying in it's back pocket? :D

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Whát's that thing it's carrying in it's back pocket? :D
Why, I believe that's a wingtip.

What its last victim was doing wearing old-fashioned shoes so close to a swamp, I'll never know.

[Elbert]

At the risk of appearing less than erudite, I'd like to point out that after years of keeping poultry, no chicken of mine has ever laid an egg... I always have to wait until they mature into hens.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

At the risk of appearing less than erudite, I'd like to point out that after years of keeping poultry, no chicken of mine has ever laid an egg... I always have to wait until they mature into hens.

I cry "Fowl" on your semantics! Colloquially, "chicken" refers to the domestic fowl in all its stages of life; cock, pullet, or whatever.

Ms Duffy to the Red Courtesy Phone!

Late Add: "after years of keeping poultry, no chicken of mine has ever laid an egg"...
Your chickens are not intended to keep poultry, sir, just to lay eggs and cackle.

[Elbert]

I cry "Fowl" on your semantics! Colloquially, "chicken" refers to the domestic fowl in all its stages of life; cock, pullet, or whatever.

Ms Duffy to the Red Courtesy Phone!

Late Add: ...
Your chickens are not intended to keep poultry, sir, just to lay eggs and cackle.
Semantics.. pedantics!
I was merely using a colloquial turn of phrase... :o however I can assure everyone on this forum that my eggs came before my hens -- I bought them [the eggs] from a reputable producer and incubated them myself with an electric blanket. no, I tell a lie... the electric planket incubated them, I merely placed them in it and turned them etc...

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

http://rynosseros.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/bantam_rooster1.jpg

[Elbert]

Ah........ I finally got it... very droll!!! I was a huge fan of the Phantom! wish I'd kept all the comoce... They be worth something now. And Mandrake... now there's a name... does that shed some light on our problem?

[davo]

Ah ah ahhhhh!!!! Don't you mean the crocoduck?

http://searchwarp.com/UserImages/142909/crocoduck.jpg

GAWD!!! Don't you just want to slap his smug little face???? He's just so disingenusouly perplexed. EWWWWW!!!!!!!!


*Thank you to RichardDawkins.net for hosting this image.
*Thank you to Searchwarp.com for hosting the image
Thank you to User Image # 142909 for uploading the image.

http://d.yimg.com/a/p/ap/20090228/capt.b5ad70adda8147acb315b7dfabe0cb78.peru_fossil_ lim101.jpg

they lived!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelagornithidae

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Ah........ I finally got it... very droll!!! I was a huge fan of the Phantom! wish I'd kept all the comoce... They be worth something now. And Mandrake... now there's a name... does that shed some light on our problem?
He gestures spasmodically, doesn't he, that Mandrake fellow?

Mandrax gestures very slowly.

[Jaar-Gilon]

He gestures spasmodically, doesn't he, that Mandrake fellow?

Mandrax gestures very slowly.

I second Elbert's sentiment Mr Black, very droll indeed.
Lovely to come home at 4am after work and have a good laugh!:D

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

I second Elbert's sentiment Mr Black, very droll indeed.
Lovely to come home at 4am after work and have a good laugh!:D
Ta!

Got to work with what you get. As it happens, my partner is currently very keen to get some silver-laced Wyandotte bantams, so I was preset for poultry.

[Protium]

A lot of hoo haa over such a poultry matter!

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Certainly nothing to crow about.

[Elbert]

Certainly nothing to crow about.
Eggsactly! Puns scramble your brains and always come home to roost eventually.

[GUDLUSS]

Eggselent! But sometimes puns put me in a fowl mood.
*GROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAN*

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Eggselent! But sometimes puns put me in a fowl mood.
*GROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAN*
So, you're chickening out?

[GUDLUSS]

Eggsactly
But I think I came into my creepy pun side a bit too much today. Carry on with your...whatever this is...

[hmn]

I think the chicken came first, it must have evolved from something else and at some point started laying eggs. But then if the thing it evolved from came from an egg then maybe the egg came first!