Profanity

[Melbmum]

I might be accused of being a goodie-two-shoes, however I really LOATHE swearing in forums. Blaspheming aside, isn't there some AFA Forum rule about offensive language?

Being a mum, my hackles just come up immediately when I read someone using the F-word in discussions.

Fiona

[Praxis]

Sorry, but I do like the occasional swear on an adult forum. There's a subtle difference in nuance between calling someone "an idiot" and "a fucking idiot" IMO - not that I'm advocating ad homs of course, that's just an example ;)

I feel my vocabulary is sufficiently great to allow me the occasional expletive.

I talk on forums the same way I talk in real life, and like most people, that includes a smattering of swear words from time to time.

Swear words are a great way to express oneself in a forum, I believe. Since we have only words on a screen and limited emoticons, use of swear words to convey extreme emotion is very useful I think.

I don't consider it "profane" - just part of everyday conversation.

Basically, I'm saying that I have no problem with it. Others may disagree, which of course is their prerogative.


Cheers.

[nari]

I wouldn't call words such as fucking/bloody/shit/whatever profanities. They were all a natural part of the English language once upon a time; then at one point or two they were seen to imply that they were antichristian in nature.

Some boards do ban swearing, some don't. That's their prerogative - them's who make the rules. ;)

nari

[Crocodile]

I'm with Praxis and nari on this one. In addition "profanity" is a definition that is far too flexible. There are some who apparently think "shut up" is a swear word, often when they are children as well, while some sane people will not see anything wrong with it.

Of course from memory, personal attacks are different, but a bit of "swearing" is not too bad. I do that in real life quite a lot too.

A long time ago I made a thread about this as well. Basically it seems clear to me that the idea of "swearing" and "blaspheming" must have been invented by religious power-bastards on crack, as I find that religious people seem to be the most "prissy" when it comes to "swear" words.

But anyway I have no problem with this "swearing" and what not, but I also note in this case that we are all individuals.

[Protium]

I absolutely LOATH Comic Sans. Should I stop everyone else from using it?

[wearestardust]

I absolutely LOATH Comic Sans. Should I stop everyone else from using it?

Yes. Yes you should.

"loathe" has a "e" (pls note my compliance with Skitt's law).

[Praxis]

I absolutely LOATH Comic Sans. Should I stop everyone else from using it?
Absolutely. Everyone knows that Candara is far less offensive.

[Logic]

I might be accused of being a goodie-two-shoes...

Seems that way... :p I'm fine with swearing in forums as long as it is in context and not just for the sake of it.

[Protium]

Seems that way... :p I'm fine with swearing in forums as long as it is in context and not just for the sake of it.
Indeed. I am more concerned with the over all content of posts than a few words in them.
I trust everyone to not go too far and get us stuck behind nanny filters or Conroyed :eek:

Yes. Yes you should.

"loathe" has a "e" (pls note my compliance with Skitt's law).I beg to differ Sir!
Loathe is a varient of loath (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/loath).


Gotta love Skitt's law :)

[wearestardust]

I beg to differ Sir!
Loathe is a varient of loath (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/loath).




I am duly corrected. In agreement with Keynes: "when the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"

[Praxis]

Interesting derail!

I had always understood that loath (said with a soft "th") would be used thus:

"I am loath to admit it"

and loathe (said with emphasis on the "o") thus:

"I loathe this sort of discussion"

Oh, and Prote? Shouldn't that be variant? ;)

[Crocodile]

I absolutely LOATH Comic Sans. Should I stop everyone else from using it?What is this Comic Sans thing you're talking about? I've never heard of it!

[Protium]

dc... my eyes!.......

[Protium]

Oh, and Prote? Shouldn't that be variant? ;)

I'm from New Zealand.. it's my accent ;)

wanna chup Bro?

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

I might be accused of being a goodie-two-shoes, however I really LOATHE swearing in forums. Blaspheming aside, isn't there some AFA Forum rule about offensive language?

Being a mum, my hackles just come up immediately when I read someone using the F-word in discussions.

Fiona
There is a request that language be kept moderate to keep our forum inside the bounds of becoming banned by nannyware. (Mind you, we'd probably be banned anyway, for leading little Lambses to hell!)

Certainly I've had more problems with hate speech that with language. Much of the swearing is in context, and is a perfectly effective means of expressing the emotion in the writer's mind at the time.

And I also feel that the greatest obscenities are Comic Sans and those migraine inducing wiggly icon and avatar gifs.

[two dogs]

...

I beg to differ Sir!
Loathe is a varient of loath (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/loath).
:)
I beg to differ with your beg to differ. :) The definition to which you have linked is for the adjectival form; you'll find only one form, loathe, when it's used as a verb. :p

[Protium]

I sit corrected :)

[Praxis]

I am sensing some rather unsavoury ComicSansism going on here.

I would remind you that all fonts are created equal in the eyes of the (key)Board.

To single out one font for derision and mockery is extremely fontist.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

To offend Prote:
CHICKEN!

[common pirate]

No Censorship, Please!

[GenericBox]

Trust me there is censorship already.


... and rightly so.

[Praxis]

Trust me there is censorship already.


... and rightly so.
We prefer to think of it as moderation and overall, I think the team does a pretty good job :)

[davo]

I absolutely LOATH Comic Sans. Should I stop everyone else from using it?

yes...

[common pirate]

Trust me there is censorship already.


... and rightly so.

sorry, I mean no additional censorship.

[wearestardust]

Trust me there is censorship already.


... and rightly so.

Back in your box, Box.

[Loki]

The moderators are there to catch us if we go over the top, fortunately. Anyway, People can be extremely offensive without swearing, we occasoinally see them here.

[Crocodile]

Agreed. Take Stephen Conroy and Tony Abbott for example. They are offensive yet they don't "swear" or "blaspheme" or whatever.

[Logic]

Agreed. Take Stephen Conroy and Tony Abbott for example. They are offensive yet they don't "swear" or "blaspheme" or whatever.

Not so... I believe Mr Abbott is a fan of 'shit'.... from a cranky use of 'bullshit' (http://www.news.com.au/apologise-again-thats-bulls/story-0-1111114768247) through to 'shit happens' (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/abbott-swears-s-happens/story-e6freuy9-1111114001074):p

[wearestardust]

Not so... I believe Mr Abbott is a fan of 'shit'.... from a cranky use of 'bullshit' (http://www.news.com.au/apologise-again-thats-bulls/story-0-1111114768247) through to 'shit happens' (http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/abbott-swears-s-happens/story-e6freuy9-1111114001074):p

Fair suck of the sauce bottle! You'll create a shitstorm.

[Dan Gleibitz]

Fair suck of the sauce bottle! You'll create a shitstorm.

I hope you made the obligatory "I'm so pleased with my funnycleverernessity" smirkle when you produced these carefully rehearsed throw-away lines...
http://seeker401.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/kevin_rudd_m1687218.jpg

[Worldslaziestbusker]

I hope you made the obligatory "I'm so pleased with my funnycleverernessity" smirkle when you produced these carefully rehearsed throw-away lines...


Hello Dan
Please don't ever attempt humour on this forum. It would detract from the respect your very serious approach to atheism has garnered and negate your various castigations of the more jocular contributors.

And I don't think you'd be very good at it.
WLB

[Dan Gleibitz]

And I don't think you'd be very good at it.
WLB

Aww shit. :o

[wearestardust]

Hello Dan
Please don't ever attempt humour on this forum. It would detract from the respect your very serious approach to atheism has garnered and negate your various castigations of the more jocular contributors.

And I don't think you'd be very good at it.
WLB

I think Dan was making a joke playing on Rudd's deliberate and planned, but trying to appear off the cuff, deployment of the comments I was referring to, and thus being obliquely playful with my post in exactly the same way as I had the one preceding it.

Edit: of course I could have missed that WLB was making a joke.

[SchizoDeluxe]

I might be accused of being a goodie-two-shoes, however I really LOATHE swearing in forums. Blaspheming aside, isn't there some AFA Forum rule about offensive language?

Being a mum, my hackles just come up immediately when I read someone using the F-word in discussions.

Fiona

They are just words. I suggest checking out George Carlin's stuff on the english language, we are a hypocritcal bunch who don't even know why we ban certain words. It's all bullshit and they are just words, don't take it out on the words themselves, take it out on the context of the usuage. There seems to be double standards with these things, just one standard will do just fine ;)

[eclectic]

I might be accused of being a goodie-two-shoes, however I really LOATHE swearing in forums. Blaspheming aside, isn't there some AFA Forum rule about offensive language?

Being a mum, my hackles just come up immediately when I read someone using the F-word in discussions.

Fiona

Sorry, it appears you have been out-voted.

I personally rather love that swearing is allowed on this forum. I've been on other forums where it is censored, and I find the freedom offered here is just one of the factors that gives this space an enjoyably adult feel.

[Winston James]

Can't say I've ever noticed any profanity on this forum... maybe I'm not following the right threads.

That said, I doubt I'd actually notice the odd f or s word, unless it was plainly fuckin' gratuitous.

[wearestardust]

the freedom offered here is just one of the factors that gives this space an enjoyably adult feel.

That and blatant avatar nudity.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

I hope you made the obligatory "I'm so pleased with my funnycleverernessity" smirkle when you produced these carefully rehearsed throw-away lines...
http://seeker401.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/kevin_rudd_m1687218.jpg
As Croc will no doubt be pleased to tell you, Kevin's hand is close to his ear-canal because he is waxing jocular.

(My apologies to those who noticed the Rude Bit.)

[eclectic]

That and blatant avatar nudity.

Oh come on, my avatar has an entire hat on her head!

although, if anyone is offended by my cartoon avatar's nudity, I could consider updating her wardrobe.

[Dan Gleibitz]

if anyone is offended by my cartoon avatar's nudity, I could consider updating her wardrobe.[/I]

Less is more, I hear... ;)

[Dan Gleibitz]

^ Not a smutty wink.

[davo]

worth getting into .. from 2:20 in and it's a pisser

6D7rWLzloOI

[Seamus]

I might be accused of being a goodie-two-shoes, however I really LOATHE swearing in forums. Blaspheming aside, isn't there some AFA Forum rule about offensive language?

Being a mum, my hackles just come up immediately when I read someone using the F-word in discussions.


Having produced offspring is not a special class of human beings,and confers no privileges..Certainly not the right to tell other adults what language they may use on a public forum.


"You're offended? So fucking what (Stephen Fry)
No one has the right not to be offended. (John Cleese)


Get over yourself (me)

[Praxis]

Aaaarrrghh - I want to post a YouTube clip and it's not working :confused:

So I click the YouTube button right? And insert my URL in between like so:
[youtube ]insert URL here[ /youtube]
is that right?

But on preview, all I get is a white screen.

Waaah - I wanna post a clip!!

[Crocodile]

@Praxis: Actually you enter just the numbers at the end of the URL in between the tags.

[Praxis]

Croc! You legend! thanks for that :D

Okay, I'm posting this so I take responsibility for it.

It's a brilliant scene from The Wire, showing how incredibly versatile the word fuck can be.

Small warning: the scene contains crime scene photos of a naked woman. Just in case anyone is offended by nudity ;)
KQbsnSVM1zM

[Praxis]

Well fuck it, someone had to post this. Might as well be me :D

The Fucking Disclaimer

If you are offended by the use of bad language fuck off now! Don't read all of this page and then say it annoys you.


Uses of the word Fuck

FUCK is an international word. It doesn't matter where you are in the world, everyone knows exactly what you mean when you say "Fuck Off".
It's the atmosphere it creates, that's why you will never read something like:
"Fuck off", he hinted.


Grammatical Usage
In language, "fuck" falls into many grammatical categories, making it one of the most versatile words in the English language.


It can be used as a verb, both transitive (John fucked Jane) and intransitive (John and Jane fucked). It can be an active verb (John fucked Jane) or a passive verb (Jane was fucked by John). Or an adverb (Jane is a fucking bastard) and a noun (Jane is a terrific fuck). It can be used as an adjective (Jane is fucking beautiful).


Further Structures
As you can see there are few words with the versatility of "fuck". Besides its sexual connotations, this incredible word can be used to describe many situations.
Greetings" How the fuck are you?"
Fraud "I was fucked by the McDonalds Drive Through."
Dismay "Oh, fuck it."
Trouble "Well, I guess I'm fucked again."
Aggression "Fuck you!!!"
Disgust "Fuck me!!!"
Confusion, Curiosity or Disbelief "What the fuck....?"
Difficulty "I don't understand this fucking thing."
Despair "Fucked again."
Good Job "Congratufuckinglations."
Desperation "Fuckityfuckfuckfuck."
Incompetence "He fucks up everything."
Frustration "This is fucked."
Intelligence "He's a fucking genius."
Dismissal "Why don't you go outside and play hide-and-go-fuck-yourself?"
Displeasure "What the fuck is going on?"
Lost "Where the fuck are we?"
Disbelief "Unbefuckinglievable!!!"
Retaliation "Up your fucking ass!!!"
Laziness "He's just a fuck-off."
Pain "Fuck ! that hurt."
Pleasure "Oooooooh Fuuuuuuck"
Love "Do ya Fuck on first dates?"
Starting a relationship"Let's fuck now!"
Surprise "What the FUCK was that?"
Admiration "Nice fucking tits!"
Stupid person "Dumbfuck!" or “Fucktard”
Hate "You Fuck!"
Condemnation "Fuck that shit!"
Disappointment "That's not fucking fair."
Ignorant person "Fuckstick."
Denial "I didn't fucking do it."
Perplexity "I know fuck all about it."
Apathy "Who gives a fuck" or "I don't give a fuck".
Confusion "What the fuck just happened?"
Resignation "Oh fuck it."
Suspicion "Who the fuck are you?"
Panic "Let's get the fuck out of here!"
Directions "Fuck off."
Sex "Let's fuck." “You’re a great fuck”
Maternal "Motherfucker."
Incestuous "Motherfucker."
Ambiguity "I'm not so fucking sure."
Agreement "Absofuckinglutely."
Questioning Authority "Who the fuck do you think you are?"
Hypocrisy "Don't you dare fucking swear at me you fucking fucker."
Praising the Lord "Jesus Fucking Christ."
I have a headache "Go fuck yourself."
Refusal "Oh you can fuck right off."
Pissed off "Fuck the fucking fuckers!"
Be quiet "Shut the fuck up."
You're right "Fucking oath." (Australianism)
Ostentation "He's just bought a big, fuck-off Mercedes."
Sensuousness "She was wearing a pair of red leather, come-fuck-me boots." Confidence "Fuckin' A."
Rage "Motherfucking fuckers!"
Impressed "That was fucking amazing."
Oral sex after 30 years of marriage "Fuck you!" (while passing each other in the hall)
Bewilderment or Ignorance "Fucked if I know."
Enraged "I'm gonna fuck you up!"
Annoyance "Fuck off, fuckface."
Annoyance "For fuck's sake."
Pissed off "Fuck you, you fucking fuck."
Tardiness "It's ten-fucking-thirty already!"
Professional appraisal of mechanical failure "It's fucked."
Calling someone"Oy, fuck face!"
Minors "Fucklings."
Thanks "Fuck you very much."

Useful Acronymns
These may come in handy when space is at a premium.


DILLIGAF Does It Look Like I Give A Fuck
FA Fuck All
FFS For Fuck's Sake
FIIK Fucked If I Know
FOAD Fuck Off And Die
FUBAR Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition
GAGF Go And Get Fucked
GFY Go Fuck Yourself
GTFO Get The Fuck Out
HMFIC Head Mother Fucker In Charge
LMFAO Laughing My Fucking Ass Off
MILF Mum I'd Like To Fuck
NFI No Fucking Idea
NMFP Not My Fucking Problem
RTFM Read The Fucking Manual
SNAFU Situation Normal All Fucked Up
WTF? What The Fuck

Sweet FA also deserves a special mention (Sweet Fuck All), meaning "nothing". Another abbreviation is F'ed in the A for (Fucked in the Ass), presumably meaning "taken advantage of" rather than literally shagged in the poophole.


Famous historical quotes

Never forget the words of these famous people.


General Custer: “Where did all them fucking Indians come from?”
Mayor of Hiroshima: "What the fuck was that?"
Captain of the Titanic: "Where's all the fucking water coming from?"
Michelangelo: "You want me to paint what on the fucking ceiling?"
Einstein: “ Any fucker could understand that."
Sean Penn: "Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck"
John Lennon: "Is that a real fucking gun?"
Donald Campbell: "The fucking throttle is stuck."
Anne Boleyn: "Heads are going to fucking roll."
Richard Nixon: "Who's going to fucking know?"
Niki Lauda: "I thought I could smell fucking petrol."
Mark Thatcher: "What fucking map?"
Picasso: "It does fucking look like her."
Christopher Columbus: "Where the fuck are we?"
Michael Jackson: "It's a fucking skin condition"
Pythagoras: "How the fuck did you work that one out?"
Walt Disney: "Fuck a duck."
Joan of Arc: "I don't suppose it will fucking rain."
George Bush: "Fcuk! I can't spell."
Miss Marple: "I haven't got a fucking clue."
Noah: "Scattered showers, my fucking arse."
Donald Trump: "You're fucking fired!"
Judge Judy:"Shut the fuck up!"
Paris Hilton: "Fuck me."
Ronald Regan to the Pope: "Yes it does fucking hurt."
Harold, Battle of Hastings 1066: "Watch him, he'll have some fucker's eye out"
John F Kennedy: "I need this parade like I need a fucking hole in the head."
John F Kennedy Jr.: "What's wrong with this fucking altimeter?"
Bill Clinton: "I should have fucked her."
Bill Clinton: "I didn't fucking inhale!"
Hurricane Katrina: "Mardi Fucken’ Gras THIS motherfuckers."
Leonardo da Vinci: "Call that a fucking smile?"
Sir Walter Raleigh: "That's another good cloak fucked!"
William Tell: "Keep fucking still!"

Some readers have pointed out that there are also some real famous fuck quotes from historical figures, such as General George Patton who among other things is noted to have said: "I don't give a fuck for a man who's not always on his toes."

"The bilious bastards who write that kind of stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know any more about real fighting under fire than they know about fucking!"
"We're going to murder those lousy Hun cock suckers by the bushel-fucking-basket."

Australia's Kerry Packer (for a time Australia's richest man; died late 2005) was also very fond of the word "fuck". Perhaps his best remembered quote followed the first time he died in 1990, after suffering a heart attack and being clinically dead for some eight minutes before being revived. When asked if he saw a light at the end of a tunnel he said: "Son, there's fucking nothing there."


Australia's former Prime Minister Malcolm Fraser is believed to have said "Life wasn't meant to be fucking easy".


Mark Latham, another Australian politician had this to say about Prime Minister John Howard's trip to the U.S.A.: "Howard is an arse-licker. He went over there, kissed some bums, and got patted on the fucking head."
Conclusion

The mind boggles at the many creative uses of the word. If by any chance you think I've missed any, please fucking let me know (morefuckingnames@justin.justnet.com.au).
How can anyone be offended when you say "FUCK"?
Use it frequently in your daily speech, you will be proud and it will add to your fucking prestige and stature.

Why not say "FUCK YOU !" to someone today.

[eclectic]

Thanks Praxis! :) I particularly love the historical ones, always raises a grin.

[Praxis]

Thanks Praxis! :) I particularly love the historical ones, always raises a grin.
I'm glad you enjoyed it eclectic - it took me fucking AGES to reformat the bastard so it was readable! I should have just posted the link :rolleyes:

:)

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

No, I'm glad it wasn't merely the link.

It was a large amount of profanity, all of it in context: truly refreshing.

(This was written within ten kilometers of the thriving metropolis of Wilsonton, Q, where FUCKIN' is a conversational punctuation device.)

[Logic]

I might be accused of being a goodie-two-shoes, however I really LOATHE swearing in forums. Blaspheming aside, isn't there some AFA Forum rule about offensive language?

Being a mum, my hackles just come up immediately when I read someone using the F-word in discussions.

Fiona

I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Melbmum - she has truly opened a can of.... worms. Who knew we were all so passionately in favour of swearing :p

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Melbmum - she has truly opened a can of.... worms. Who knew we were all so passionately in favour of swearing :p
There's probably lots of things we're in favour of that we don't do here all the time.

You'd be surprised, for example, at how few puns I actually allow myself to post.

[Protium]

I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Melbmum - she has truly opened a can of.... worms. Who knew we were all so passionately in favour of swearing :p
It's not so much I'm passionate about swearing, I'm more passionate about my right to swear :)

[wolty]

I'm with Protium on this as well. Freedom is a great thing.

I have been reading these forums for a while now and I do find most are quite careful about swearing. I have never found it gratuitous. I do it occasionally but do try to be careful as well.
However sometimes the religidiots say some stuff that is just plain offensive and I find this much more distressing.

[Crocodile]

But it isn't nudity if it's on Youtube right?Croc! You legend! thanks for that :D

Okay, I'm posting this so I take responsibility for it.

It's a brilliant scene from The Wire, showing how incredibly versatile the word fuck can be.

Small warning: the scene contains crime scene photos of a naked woman. Just in case anyone is offended by nudity ;)
KQbsnSVM1zMIt's Father Jack + Gordon Ramsay all in one package!

[DistroMan]

As Croc will no doubt be pleased to tell you, Kevin's hand is close to his ear-canal because he is waxing jocular.

(My apologies to those who noticed the Rude Bit.)

Or he could have just been getting ready for a pre lunch snack. We know he's fond of ear wax. :cool:

[DistroMan]

Oh come on, my avatar has an entire hat on her head!

although, if anyone is offended by my cartoon avatar's nudity, I could consider updating her wardrobe.

It's not gratuitous though. It has a message. Read into it what you like as it is different for each of you. :D

[Melbmum]

Wow, I must say I am totally impressed with the lack of tolerance, the high amount of deliberate misundertanding and the even higher amount of ill-educated people replying to my simple query.

Not only was I "out-voted" - when I did not put forward any sort of request for something to halt - it appears that an awful lot of people here think so highly of themselves.

Being a parent DOES give me special dispensation to say certain things. Like "Is every Atheist meant to be bringing up their child to use offensive language?"

I note no-one on the forum thought it alright to take even a slightly Swiss attitude towards my comment. Does this mean one is only truly Atheist if they think they can do and say anything and it truly doesn't matter how much you hurt or offend other people? Sounds a lot like what "Godly" people do.

Clearly the Atheists in this country are the same as those who follow an institutionalised religion.

Btw - John Cleese was misquoted - he DOES believe that one person can offend rather than the other person take offense.

Fiona
PS: the funny thing is, some of you are actually going to respond to this - prior to it being deleted by the forum moderators, of course - and I won't be sticking around to read it, so all those people will be doing will be simply patting themselves on the back. :D

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

@Melbmum: wouldn't think of deleting it! Now, quick, go back into Melbmum-world before somebody says "bullshit" to you.

Conflating naughty words with poor education is probably just one of many errors you're making. If you choose to answer, please tell me what Real Atheists do, so I can put it on the wall.

[starr]

Wow, I must say I am totally impressed with the lack of tolerance, the high amount of deliberate misundertanding and the even higher amount of ill-educated people replying to my simple query.

Not only was I "out-voted" - when I did not put forward any sort of request for something to halt - it appears that an awful lot of people here think so highly of themselves.

This is my first reply on this thread. I just wanted to say that I can understand if you are feeling a bit defensive after the responses you got to your initial post.

I can understand if it seems like everyone was ganging up on you. I think the responses you've had are best viewed in terms of people who are feeling a bit miffed that somebody would try to censor them. Even if you weren't trying to censor anybody, it probably seemed that way.



Being a parent DOES give me special dispensation to say certain things. Like "Is every Atheist meant to be bringing up their child to use offensive language?" I'm a parent too. Being a parent doesn't give you 'special' dispensation to say certain things. Anybody, parent or not, can say these things if they want to.

I note no-one on the forum thought it alright to take even a slightly Swiss attitude towards my comment. Does this mean one is only truly Atheist if they think they can do and say anything and it truly doesn't matter how much you hurt or offend other people? Sounds a lot like what "Godly" people do. I didn't see anybody say that you mustn't be a 'real' atheist if you don't like swearing. I didn't see anybody say that they are atheist therefore they swear. I don't think being an atheist has anything to do with this issue.

I also didn't see anybody say that they can 'do and say anything and it truly doesn't matter how much you hurt or offend other people'. In fact, some people who responded made the opposite assertion and were talking about swearing in conversational terms for emphasis and not as a way to insult or offend people.

Clearly the Atheists in this country are the same as those who follow an institutionalised religion.So you're judging the atheists in this country based on a few replies you got that you didn't like on a forum? :rolleyes:

Btw - John Cleese was misquoted - he DOES believe that one person can offend rather than the other person take offense.

Fiona
PS: the funny thing is, some of you are actually going to respond to this - prior to it being deleted by the forum moderators, of course - and I won't be sticking around to read it, so all those people will be doing will be simply patting themselves on the back. :DI guess my back is well and truly patted now then :D

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Fiona
PS: the funny thing is, some of you are actually going to respond to this - prior to it being deleted by the forum moderators, of course - and I won't be sticking around to read it, so all those people will be doing will be simply patting themselves on the back. :D
Classic passive-aggression.

I hope the poor dear has sufficient fortitude to stay away.

UXFz7vqbk1o

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

http://usr.audioasylum.com/images/2/28707/spit-the-dummy.jpg

[Crocodile]

And now to take care of some unfinished business:As Croc will no doubt be pleased to tell you, Kevin's hand is close to his ear-canal because he is waxing jocular.

(My apologies to those who noticed the Rude Bit.)Why, Kevin's hand is close to his ear-canal because he is waxing his jocular!

[nari]

Melbmum's posts remind me of what atheism means: we're in agreement over the absence of a god or any other sentient being, but we are still human, with many diverse thoughts likely to cause cognitive dissonance for others.

Like everyone else.

nari

[Protium]

Strange it reminds me of someone with their own head up their arse!

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Melbmum's posts remind me of what atheism means: we're in agreement over the absence of a god or any other sentient being, but we are still human, with many diverse thoughts likely to cause cognitive dissonance for others.

Like everyone else.

nari
Some of us can be pulled up over a logic error without pulling the Big Flounce.

Melbmum's sweeping generalisations gave some indication of where the broom handle was lodged.

[Crocodile]

And now to take care of some even more extremely important and unfinished business as well:Wow, I must say I am totally impressed with the lack of tolerance, the high amount of deliberate misundertanding and the even higher amount of ill-educated people replying to my simple query.Where is the deliberate misunderstanding? And is it fair to say many are "ill-educated people" just because we do not like censorship? And we know what censorship is all about. Protection of children is NOT one of them.

Not only was I "out-voted" - when I did not put forward any sort of request for something to halt - it appears that an awful lot of people here think so highly of themselves.You requested for a defined subset of words to be blacklisted, and this is censorship. Many over here do not take kindly to being censored. I am one of them. In fact I bet many of us have had barrages of abuse from parents and teachers alike, and as a result of such small "offences" and it is really stupid considering that the same people accuse me of responding out of proportion when something pisses me off for example.

Being a parent DOES give me special dispensation to say certain things. Like "Is every Atheist meant to be bringing up their child to use offensive language?"Anybody can say such things. Just because you are a parent does not mean you are exempt from such things. And how many four-year-olds browse these forums anyway? I doubt anybody brings up their children to use "offensive language" (like I said, is a very poorly defined subset) and more likely the children end up using it after hearing it. Nobody that I know has bought up children in a way that they must use "offensive language" all the time.

I note no-one on the forum thought it alright to take even a slightly Swiss attitude towards my comment. Does this mean one is only truly Atheist if they think they can do and say anything and it truly doesn't matter how much you hurt or offend other people? Sounds a lot like what "Godly" people do.All I can say about that is that an atheist is one who does not believe in any gods. That's all. I did not understand the rest of that bit of your post other than that.

Clearly the Atheists in this country are the same as those who follow an institutionalised religion.The irony of you saying that is that the "offensive language" paradigm was probably invented by religious nutjobs as a method of controlling people and what they say. It is obvious given it has more or less the same traits as "blaspheming" ie. picking on random words and labelling them as evil.

Btw - John Cleese was misquoted - he DOES believe that one person can offend rather than the other person take offense.

Fiona
PS: the funny thing is, some of you are actually going to respond to this - prior to it being deleted by the forum moderators, of course - and I won't be sticking around to read it, so all those people will be doing will be simply patting themselves on the back. :DNow who is thinking so highly about themselves in addition to having a distinct lack of tolerance?

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

LINKY-BUM-KNACKERS (http://www.defamer.com.au/2010/01/china-starts-war-on-sexting/)

China is to start monitoring text messages for inappropriate key words. The government has told mobile phone providers to suspend users whose messages contain “illegal or unhealthy content” as part of what it calls a campaign against pornography.

Fuck, that's so un-Australian!

[nari]

Not only text messages - I was skyping with a niece in China one day and we were discussing what was the world's longest/largest canyon; I mentioned Tibet, which has the world's largest canyon, and we were immediately cut off. Pffft.

nari

[wearestardust]

Oh come on, my avatar has an entire hat on her head!

although, if anyone is offended by my cartoon avatar's nudity, I could consider updating her wardrobe.

No, I'm happy to remain in agreement with Joe Cocker.


As an aside, on forums with automatic naughty word control, that would have come out "Joe ####er".

[Crocodile]

Does anybody have a flying fuck?
pnjyf7IaQSE&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000
Does anybody give a flying fuck?

[wearestardust]

It can be used as a verb, both transitive (John fucked Jane) and intransitive (John and Jane fucked). It can be an active verb (John fucked Jane) or a passive verb (Jane was fucked by John).

I am totally and completely offended by the gratuitous heteronormativity of this explanation. Stand back, I''m going to flounce.

Incidentally this reminds me of a discussion I had with my son. He went to a gender diversity conference and came back all fired up about the sins of us straight people (reminded me of myself coming back from woo youth camp). Anyway, he lectured us about how straight people try to confine gender diverse people by imposing classifications on them. We had a conversation that went something like this.

Me. So at the conference you had breakout sessions for different identifications of sex and gender.

Him. Yep.

Me. So, like for example, you have this friend who is physically female…

Him. Yep.

Me. who gender-identifies as male …

Him. Yep.

Me. who identifies as gay, sexuality wise.

Him. Yep.

Me. So this person is physically female, identifies as male, but gay, so is attracted to physical males.

Him. Yep.

Me. So this person is physically female and attracted to physical males. In straight people world, that’s a straight woman. I don’t think it is straight people who are constructing this multiplicity of definitions that confine people.

Him. Er. Um.

(I hasten add, I then expressed my view that the problem is not gender diverse people with their heads up their arses; the problem is people who’ve had too big a dose of PoMo, and who consequently have their heads up their arses, who happen also to be gender diverse).


Btw: @ Melbmum: what you are seeing is not the intolerance of this particular forum, or atheists. What you are experiencing is the internet.

[eclectic]

This all reminded me of a Bill Bailey sketch.

(I can't youtube at work so here's a transcript)


There’s this one celebrity, Rosie O'Donnell, a talk show host, and she said this: “I don’t know anything about Afghanistan, but I know it’s full of terrorists, speaking as a mother.” So what is this "speaking as a mother" then? Is that a euphemism for "talking out of my arse"? "Suspending rational thought for a moment"? As a rational human being, Al-Qaeda are a loose association of psychopathic zealots who could be rounded up with a sustained police investigation. But speaking as a parent, they’re all eight foot tall, they’ve got lasers under their moustaches, a huge eye in their foreheads and the only way to kill them is to NUKE every country that hasn’t sent us a Christmas card in the the last 20 years!! Speaking as a mother.

[SchizoDeluxe]

Wow, I must say I am totally impressed with the lack of tolerance, the high amount of deliberate misundertanding and the even higher amount of ill-educated people replying to my simple query.

Ill-educated? why, because we don't like being told what we can and cannot say? Sorry, I have a little problem, it's called thinking and being honest. Try it some day rather than trying to force it onto others.


Not only was I "out-voted" - when I did not put forward any sort of request for something to halt - it appears that an awful lot of people here think so highly of themselves.

Excuse me but it's not us that's got the holier than thou attitude here, it was you who brought up the issue. And for the record, you basically implied that there should be a halt to the use of this so called "bad language".


Being a parent DOES give me special dispensation to say certain things. Like "Is every Atheist meant to be bringing up their child to use offensive language?"

No it doesn't and that's the problem with most parents these days, having a child is nothing special and being a parent doesn't give you the right to dictate what everyone can and cannot do. You want to shelter your kid, don't show the site to them. It's like radio or TV, don't like it, there's an off switch, use it. This seems to be the typical attitude of parents these days and it makes me want to puke in my cornflakes.


I note no-one on the forum thought it alright to take even a slightly Swiss attitude towards my comment. Does this mean one is only truly Atheist if they think they can do and say anything and it truly doesn't matter how much you hurt or offend other people? Sounds a lot like what "Godly" people do.

It offends me more than people even raise this point of bad language in the first place. Being offended by words is not an excuse to make a rule of it. And being an atheist also means supporting the idea of freedom of speech, something that you may want to look up.


Clearly the Atheists in this country are the same as those who follow an institutionalised religion.

Another ignorant comment against atheists, seems not many people seem to understand the concept of atheism.


Fiona
PS: the funny thing is, some of you are actually going to respond to this - prior to it being deleted by the forum moderators, of course - and I won't be sticking around to read it, so all those people will be doing will be simply patting themselves on the back. :D

Of course, like the typical religious nut, those who argue a point then realize they were wrong, run like the wind.

I don't really care if you feel offended by useless words, I am so over the whole tiptoeing over people's feelings because they don't like certain words, I am just fucking sick of the blatant hypocrisy and ignorance and plain stupidity of people who think they can control everyone else. It's not like we told you to fuck off or anything. THEY ARE JUST WORDS, get over it!

[Dan Gleibitz]

Clearly the Atheists in this country are the same as those who follow an institutionalised religion.seems not many people seem to understand the concept of atheism.

being an atheist also means supporting the idea of freedom of speech Snap. You appear to have made the same logical error. ;)

[SchizoDeluxe]

Snap. You appear to have made the same logical error. ;)

Ahh and there lies the problem with groups and labels. Obviously atheism does not equate to support of freedom of speech so not everyone shares that same thought. I would find it very hard to be an atheist and not support freedom of speech but obviously there are people like that out there.

[DistroMan]

I would find it very hard to be an atheist and not support freedom of speech but obviously there are people like that out there.

True and unfortunate, but it does show that they are not inextricably linked. One does not follow from the other. :cool:

[wearestardust]

True and unfortunate, but it does show that they are not inextricably linked. One does not follow from the other. :cool:

Stalin was an atheist after all. And Hitler.


Oh. And I'm an atheist as well.
So I must be Stalin. And Hitler. Is that how the theist syllogism goes?

[DistroMan]

Stalin was an atheist after all. And Hitler.

Stalin yes, but I think the panel is still discussing Hitler. :D

Oh. And I'm an atheist as well.
So I must be Stalin. And Hitler. Is that how the theist syllogism goes?

Could be, but I don't understand them so I can't say. :eek:

[starr]

Ahh and there lies the problem with groups and labels. Obviously atheism does not equate to support of freedom of speech so not everyone shares that same thought. I would find it very hard to be an atheist and not support freedom of speech but obviously there are people like that out there.

Yep. An atheist is just someone who does not believe in god(s). All other opinions/beliefs held by an atheist are just their own personal opinions/beliefs and are not inherently associated with them being atheist. :)

[humantoo]

I'm with you Fiona.

I have said the F word many times but have eliminated it since becoming a mum. (it was one of those childish things I had to put away once I became a parent)

I remember that the word bloody was a major taboo when I was a kid but I do use that pretty regularly now.I hope that the F word is never accepted in the same way because of it's meaning.

Like marajuana, it should never be legalised because it cannot be used in public places without injuring others.

[davo]

I'm with you Fiona.

I have said the F word many times but have eliminated it since becoming a mum. (it was one of those childish things I had to put away once I became a parent)

How is it 'childish', this is just an assertion on your part.


I remember that the word bloody was a major taboo when I was a kid but I do use that pretty regularly now.I hope that the F word is never accepted in the same way because of it's meaning.

After all the video evidence and discussion, you have a clear meaning for the word? It is a word that can be used for more meanings than any other I know of.


Like marajuana, it should never be legalised because it cannot be used in public places without injuring others.

logic does not compute.
Why again should I go to gaol or otherwise punished by law if I smoke it in the privacy of my own home or with other consenting adults?

(not that I smoke, last time was in Amsterdam near 2 years ago now :(

[SchizoDeluxe]

oh jesus h. christ here we go :D

[Praxis]

like marajuana, it should never be legalised because it cannot be used in public places without injuring others.
Whoaaaahh - WTF? Where to even start with this amazing assertion :eek:

Could you please provide some evidence of people being injured after hearing the word fuck? I really would like to know.

And don't start me on legalising drugs. Why it hasn't happened remains a total mystery to me (but that's a whole 'nother topic ;) )

[davo]

oh by the way, this thread is kind of a version of the Streisand Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect) .. wonder if there is a specific terminology for it.

[Crocodile]

WHAT THE FUCK?! Sorry fellas, I'm not gonna let this one pass as it is dangerous enough that Conroy may censor teh intarwebs, and now we have at least two here who advocate the enforcement of censoring certain common words and phrases:
I'm with you Fiona.

I have said the F word many times but have eliminated it since becoming a mum. (it was one of those childish things I had to put away once I became a parent)What is the big deal about this whole "F-word" thing? Why is it so dangerous? Does it kill babies every time somebody says it?

I remember that the word bloody was a major taboo when I was a kid but I do use that pretty regularly now.I hope that the F word is never accepted in the same way because of it's meaning.Why? What meaning? It is a word, just like any other.

Like marajuana, it should never be legalised because it cannot be used in public places without injuring others.How does saying a word injure others? Well... maybe if they are religious and are forbidden to hear certain words but it's 2010 for fuck sake! The word "fuck" is just a string of four characters when written, and just a set of phonemes when spoken.

[eclectic]

I'm with you Fiona.

I have said the F word many times but have eliminated it since becoming a mum. (it was one of those childish things I had to put away once I became a parent)

I don't see how swearing is "childish", or indeed any of the things that a person may alter in their life when becoming a parent. There are some good reasons to alter one's behaviour when becoming a parent, but I don't agree that it is because the former behaviour is immature.

I happen to agree that it's a very nice plan not to swear in front of children. I think it's best if children build up a varied vocabulary before introducing swear words at an age when they can use them effectively.

Yet I fail to see how limiting swearing in front of children is in any way related to how adults should conduct themselves here.

I remember that the word bloody was a major taboo when I was a kid but I do use that pretty regularly now.I hope that the F word is never accepted in the same way because of it's meaning.

Bloody is pretty gory! Bugger is commonly used in Australia as a mild swear word too, and it's definitely not polite dinner-table conversation! I hope fuck doesn't get over-used because it has a certain potency that is useful, but as with all swear words it is not actually invoking images of its literal subject matter. When I hurt myself and exclaim "fuck!", nobody imagines I am shouting about sex.

Like marajuana, it should never be legalised because it cannot be used in public places without injuring others.

Well you've lost me here because I strongly believe marijuana should be legalised. But that aside, this a ridiculous argument. Firstly, as others have said, words do NOT injure people. Secondly, just because something shouldn't be done in public, how does that make it something that should be illegal in private?

btw, is swearing illegal? My limited google research suggests maybe... if someone else finds it offensive. In which case we're all doomed - how are we supposed to avoid offending people when they are so easily offended?!

[SchizoDeluxe]

I really should use this as my sig :D

You can't say fuck on television. However you can refer to fucking, you can talk about fucking. They do that all the time. Sometimes on the show you are watching two people are probably fucking in the other room. Fucking is alright, fucking is part of the plot. Lots of plots are based on fucking. Will they fuck, should they fuck, have they fucked, did they fuck, will they fuck again, will they get sick from fucking, are they fucking too much, will they fuck each other's friends, will they have a baby from fucking, will they be sorry they fucked, will they be glad they fucked, all fuck stories.
So they talk about fucking all they want, they just don't call it that, they don't call it what it is.

[Crocodile]

@eclectic: I'm with you on the legalization of drugs. Also, it turns out that marijuana can be used in public places without injuring others. How many marijuana shotguns have they invented?

I really should use this as my sig :DIs it just me or was that from a George Carlin standup? I really do remember a large portion of the script from somewhere.

In any case if you use that as your signature then the signature will be much longer than the actual post. You've already got a ginormous image there.

[SchizoDeluxe]

Is it just me or was that from a George Carlin standup? I really do remember a large portion of the script from somewhere.

In any case if you use that as your signature then the signature will be much longer than the actual post. You've already got a ginormous image there.

Yep, George Carlin 1977, part of his 7 words you can't say on television which in turn became the focus point of new censorship laws on tv in the US. Censorship hasn't changed much since then either.

[eclectic]

@Crocodile. Marijuana is just harmful to others in the same way passive smoke from cigarettes is. I would be happy with no-smoking areas, like we have for tobacco. Also restrictions on driving and working under the influence, as with alcohol. Otherwise I don't see what the problem is for informed adults to put whatever they want into their own bodies!

[Crocodile]

Woops... I kept thinking of it as a plant people chew on! I guess I went a little blank there. I agree passive smoking is a problem, as with people who stink like cigarettes.

On another note: now that we have had a long discussion on profanities, let us have a long discussion on Comic Sans MS shall we?

[eclectic]

oh by the way, this thread is kind of a version of the Streisand Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect) .. wonder if there is a specific terminology for it.

It certainly is. I love that the wikipedia article about the effect is continuing the effect itself! (Seemingly deliberately from all the "examples" that are noted to be excessive). :)

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

"Being a parent DOES give me special dispensation to say certain things" = "I'm used to talking at my kids like a tyrant, and somehow I think I can do it to other people as well."

[Seamus]

Does anybody have a flying fuck?
pnjyf7IaQSE&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000
Does anybody give a flying fuck?


I want one to go with my flying pig mobile.:D (no,really I actually DO have flying pig mobile.It hangs in the hall,just inside the front door)

My quest for a flatulent hippo continues.(like the one Abby has in NCIS)---I asked the nice lady at 'Toys R Us' and she went all chicken lipped.

[wearestardust]

What is the big deal about this whole "F-word"

Every time you say "fuck", god kills a a kitten. Of fuck, a kitten just died. fuck, I didn't mean it. Oh fuck, I did it again. Oh fuck. Sooooryy.


btw marijuana is bad new if you have a risk of a disposition to certain kinds of mental illness. This is why I don't touch it, for example. Not saying it should be banned. Just saying one ought be properly informed.

[DistroMan]

btw marijuana is bad new if you have a risk of a disposition to certain kinds of mental illness. This is why I don't touch it, for example. Not saying it should be banned. Just saying one ought be properly informed.

Yeah, or otherwise we'd have to ban Creaming Soda. :mad:

[humantoo]

I have absolutely cacked myself at the replies that have been posted since I drew the comparison between the F word and Marajuana.

My view is simple. Grow a pair and learn to avoid the use of four letter words around children. This is easier to do if the words are also eliminated in general conversation. (practice makes perfect)

The F word is either said to shock, amuse or as an exclamation...to drive home a point. It is not an essential part of the language and if said in mixed company is sure to offend or negatively affect others.....Fiona and her original post is case in point.

The comment about Marajuana was an analogy. Smoke it in public and you are sure to negatively affect someone else...either with damage to their lungs through passive smoking or damage to their brain cells by passively inhaling it's mind altering properties.

The F word has been around for a loooonng time but it is nowhere near being considered socially acceptable to use it in any and all settings.

[Crocodile]

I have absolutely cacked myself at the replies that have been posted since I drew the comparison between the F word and Marajuana.That is because the two are completely unrelated. It is like comparing an apple and an ATV vehicle to see which one is better. You cannot do that sort of thing.

My view is simple. Grow a pair and learn to avoid the use of four letter words around children. This is easier to do if the words are also eliminated in general conversation. (practice makes perfect)Why should we stop using certain words? What damage does it do to the children if they hear it?

My view is simple: Get used to it because you'll be hearing and seeing it a lot more often than you think. I would hate to think that you go up to every random person on the street who uses "fuck" and yell at them "Excuse me! Stop swearing! I am a mum and I have children, so stop swearing!" or something as absurd (or even more absurd) than that.

The F word is either said to shock, amuse or as an exclamation...to drive home a point. It is not an essential part of the language and if said in mixed company is sure to offend or negatively affect others.....Fiona and her original post is case in point.As I mentioned earlier on; it is just a string of characters ('F','U','C','K') concatenated together when in writing, and just a set of phonemes when spoken. And this has meanings too, and every other word in the English language has these characteristics. What makes "fuck" so bad is what puzzles me. It does NOT injure people, and it does NOT harm society or even children!

The comment about Marajuana was an analogy. Smoke it in public and you are sure to negatively affect someone else...either with damage to their lungs through passive smoking or damage to their brain cells by passively inhaling it's mind altering properties.

The F word has been around for a loooonng time but it is nowhere near being considered socially acceptable to use it in any and all settings.The comment about marijuana and passive smoking does not apply to words. How many people have got cancer or some other ailment just by hearing the word "fuck" said by someone who accidentally dropped a brick on his toe, for example?

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

I'd sooner live in a society where children knew the theory behind what "fuck" meant and used the word in context, but became scandalised at the sight of a fist-fight or bullying.

[davo]

I have absolutely cacked myself at the replies that have been posted since I drew the comparison between the F word and Marajuana.

You shit your pants??!

ewww ;)


My view is simple. Grow a pair and learn to avoid the use of four letter words around children. This is easier to do if the words are also eliminated in general conversation. (practice makes perfect)

This is basically a fallacy of false association, a slippery slope argument where you state that to avoid doing something, it is better you must not do something at all.

eg: we should not have sex because then it will be easier not to have sex in front of children.



The F word is either said to shock, amuse or as an exclamation...to drive home a point. It is not an essential part of the language and if said in mixed company is sure to offend or negatively affect others.....Fiona and her original post is case in point.

Is it a necessity that language is essential? There are clear cases that the word is used, you just happen to make the assertion it is 'not needed'. It very clearly is, as it is used.

Words and language is not a static thing, you want it to be tho.


The comment about Marajuana was an analogy. Smoke it in public and you are sure to negatively affect someone else...either with damage to their lungs through passive smoking or damage to their brain cells by passively inhaling it's mind altering properties.

Shifting the goal post I see. But anyway it was a really bad analogy. Why can't you discuss the topic on it's merits? Instead you make a false association as a basis for your argument, as you state you presented a (clear) comparison. Of course people are going to dispute your premise.


The F word has been around for a loooonng time but it is nowhere near being considered socially acceptable to use it in any and all settings.

And thus the goal posts are shifted based on your assertions regardless.

Define socially accepted, when it appears in this setting, the majority consider it socially acceptable. Do we work off the majority? or the minority that argue that the majority should conform because 'children' might hang out on a forum aimed at philosophical issues and debate and be 'swayed' by the word somehow? (indeed you associated it to physical harm)

Do we water down our community and our selves based on some intangible standard?


http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/dreams.png

[wearestardust]

My view is simple. Grow a pair and learn to avoid the use of four letter words around children. This is easier to do if the words are also eliminated in general conversation. (practice makes perfect)
[/quote]

If you were to amend this to:


Don't the use of four letter words around children. This is easier to do if one is able to restrict it's use to where not inappropriate (ie not use it unthinkingly)

I'd largely be in agreement.

But that wasn't what the thread kicked off on. The thread kicked off on swearing in general on this forum.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

My view is simple. Grow a pair...
But be sure to use euphemisms when you refer to them.

[Seamus]

I'd sooner live in a society where children knew the theory behind what "fuck" meant and used the word in context, but became scandalised at the sight of a fist-fight or bullying.

I learned the ' f word' AND the 'c word' at age 5. (Parochial Catholic school) Practical application came at age 8. (my seductress was also 8) At the time I really couldn't understand what all the fuss was about.:p

I learned not say those words around adults as they would go all chicken lipped and sometimes give me a thick ear.:mad:

[davo]

I learned not say those words around adults as they would go all chicken lipped and sometimes give me a thick ear.:mad:

This reminds me of when I was in primary school, I used to play around the swing and climbing set with my mates 'star wars' (it had just come out) pretending we were aliens etc 'pew PEW! PEW!' ..

anyway this went on for a while. One sunday we had my prim and proper grandfather over for dinner, a nice bloke and we are all in the middle of chatting and he asks me how school is going.

I get into telling him all about the class and how we have a pet rabbit etc, and that we play at lunchtime as aliens .. 'and you know what my name is Pa??'

"Lez-bian!!"

It sounded so alien-like to me at the time ... dunno where I picked it up from. I am so proud of that :)

[Crocodile]

But Lesbians come from the Isle of Lesbos don't they?

Funny enough I remember when I was in primary school somebody got in trouble just for saying the word "lesbian" and was forced to write an apology to the girl who he mentioned was a lesbian.

I guess this "swearing" will never piss me off, unless it is used in an insult context.

If somebody calls me a bludger or a cunt then I am more than willing to trade blows if I know I will win.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Just as well we don't have HelsinkiMum to contend with: LINKY-TO-WINKIE (http://www.thechronicle.com.au/story/2010/01/22/giant-penis-takes-to-streets-of-helsinki/).

[Loki]

It's amazing they can keep it up, in Helsinki in winter. Must be freezing.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

But Lesbians come from the Isle of Lesbos don't they?
Croc, there was once a woman poet called Sappho. She lived on the Greek island of Lesbos.

Here is her Wiki entry. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sappho)

Sappho's poetry centers on passion and love for various personages and both genders. The word lesbian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian) derives from the name of the island of her birth, Lesbos, while her name is also the origin of the word sapphic; both words were only applied to female homosexuality beginning in the 19th century.

Yes, Sappho wasn't necessarily only for the ladies. (Sheesh, we need a small Mythbusters-type BUSTED icon here!)
And it wasn't until Victorian times, when piano legs became indecent and had to be given skirts, and people still couldn't stop talking about sex, but had to employ ever-more-elaborate euphemisms for it, that the terms "sapphic" and "lesbian" were adopted for girl/girl action, and "sodomite" for men's men.

Funny old world, innit?

BTW, There was once a snack-bar, close to an office I worked at, owned by a fine chap who was born on Lesbos. Some of the sillier of my colleagues (and I may have been one of them) would occasionally stroll in and wave to Spiros, calling out "How's my favourite Lesbian today?"

I promise to grow up eventually...

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

(With reference to the Large Winkie of Helsinki)
It's amazing they can keep it up, in Helsinki in winter. Must be freezing.
Air pressure, I understand.... (sits calmly and waits for inevitable "blow" joke).

[Crocodile]

Hmm... Now that I read that post it was actually confusing: I guess I was meant to say "Aren't inhabitants of the Isle of Lesbos called Lesbains too?" instead. :o

[Fearless]

Does anybody have a flying fuck?
pnjyf7IaQSE&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000
Does anybody give a flying fuck?

Hey Croc... can you make out what is hanging from the wall in the back ground? Is it a hanging plane... or? :confused: :eek:

[wearestardust]

In 428 BCE the Lesbians were at risk of being subjugated, but Athens came to their aid.

no, really: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mytilenean_revolt

[Crocodile]

Hey Croc... can you make out what is hanging from the wall in the back ground? Is it a hanging plane... or? :confused: :eek:It looks kind of like one of those things that you attach hang people up with by driving nails into their limbs. :eek:

[Crocodile]

fFmRypAYz_E&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000

[SchizoDeluxe]

Absolutely brilliant. Why can't people understand that they are JUST WORDS? Wanna know why they are shocking and offensive? Because people make them so. By the way, he was usually high during those bits back then :D

NL3bRyFrrG8

dxR4RpPL1rc

[humantoo]

I love the argument that swear words are just words. The F word is just a four letter word, just four letters strung together.

So if it is only a word, why not use another in it's place. Why demand to hang onto a four letter word that is only a word....nothing more?

We tell ourselves that words don't hurt or injure but those who have been bullied would beg to differ. ("words can bring me down")

Fiona expressed a dislike of the use of the word in these Forums. Surely her opinion is valid.

I for one would like examples of historically significant or emotionally moving speeches that touched the audience or positively influenced mankind and included the use of the F word (repeatedly).

Personally I think the word is overused and is at worst offensive at best unneccessary in Forums such as these.

[Crocodile]

I love the argument that swear words are just words. The F word is just a four letter word, just four letters strung together.

So if it is only a word, why not use another in it's place. Why demand to hang onto a four letter word that is only a word....nothing more?"Clog" is just a word. Why not use another in it's place? There are many words that can replace that four-letter word. Does that invalidate the argument that "swear words" are just words? If so I would like to know how.

We tell ourselves that words don't hurt or injure but those who have been bullied would beg to differ. ("words can bring me down")As someone who has been a very popular target of bullying in the past, even to many serious group-induced bashings, I can assure you it is not the word itself that brings people down. It is also the context. If somebody is using it as an insult for example, then yes it is an insulting context, and the word is being used as an insult. A "non-swear" word such as "idiot" can be used in the same context and can be equally devastating given the right circumstances.

Fiona expressed a dislike of the use of the word in these Forums. Surely her opinion is valid.If when you say "valid" you mean "fact" then no. Her opinion (which seems to be yours too!) has not been backed by significant evidence, and thus is not fact.

I for one would like examples of historically significant or emotionally moving speeches that touched the audience or positively influenced mankind and included the use of the F word (repeatedly).And I for one would like examples of historically significant or emotionally moving speeches that negatively influenced mankind and included the use of the F word (repeatedly).

Personally I think the word is overused and is at worst offensive at best unneccessary in Forums such as these.Nobody is asking you or Fiona to read every post that is on these forums. If you don't like it you don't have to read it. Do not attempt to enforce some baseless rule on everybody. I do not like apples very much, so do I go on a killing spree and try and enforce a ban for all apples? Do I get pissy when I see people eat apples? I can assure you the answer to all those is a definite no.

[DistroMan]

I love the argument that swear words are just words. The F word is just a four letter word, just four letters strung together.

It is true.

So if it is only a word, why not use another in it's place. Why demand to hang onto a four letter word that is only a word....nothing more?

We're no more demanding to hang on to it than we are demanding to hang on to the word 'word'. We're just using it and are not going to be earbashed into not using it. Why? Keep reading.

We tell ourselves that words don't hurt or injure but those who have been bullied would beg to differ. ("words can bring me down")

Well, they can't. I've heard this argument all my life and it doesn't hold water. You say a word is offensive, which means it gives offense. That is patently untrue. A word can no more give 'offense' than it can give you you 'common sense'. People 'take' offense and that is their right, but it does make it their fault if they feel hurt and not the speaker of the word.

Fiona expressed a dislike of the use of the word in these Forums. Surely her opinion is valid.

No, her opinion is respected, not validated.

I for one would like examples of historically significant or emotionally moving speeches that touched the audience or positively influenced mankind and included the use of the F word (repeatedly).

Yeah, good luck. People such as yourself being overly worried about words would have removed them from the speeches. Asking for examples is being disingenuous at best.

Personally I think the word is overused and is at worst offensive at best unneccessary in Forums such as these.

Yes, they can be overused. As I said before, words do not give offense and that is what offensive means. You can take offense, but that's your problem. A lot of words are unnecessary on this forum. But that's humans for you. We can be quite verbose. :cool:

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

@Humantoo: The question of whether the word you so dislike is appropriate is moot: it is here. Like all words in my vocabulary, covering the approximate range from a'a' (a form of lava) to zymurgy (the branch of chemistry related to brewing) with lacunae here and there (nope, no dictionary or Wiki used thus far), our good friend whose euphemism is FiretrUCK is my servant: I shall send him to do my bidding where I will.

Others employ him also. Whether I like it or not, they may do so here. I am told the word is used in offices, streets, bars, cafes, churches (yes, I have heard it myself in churches) and homes.

Fiona's opinion is valid, and I understand she has chosen to do something about that. Expecting a promise that a word would be expunged from the language so she could stay? Well, I guess she could stay anyway, should she have chosen to do so. I respect her opinion and her choice, insofar as they apply to her. Captain of her ship, paddle her own canoe, and what have we.

The power of the word "Fuck", a power you yourself acknowledge, can be a force for liberation. The wonderful Ricë Freeman-Zachery (http://voodoonotes.blogspot.com/2010/01/women-who-say-whatever.html) is an inspiration in the lives of my household, and one of us is a member of her "Women Who Say FUCK A Lot" group. (I could join, but external time-management constraints apply to me).

I enjoyed Billy Thorpe's live show in Brisbane back in 197*, where he played a song about a previous stage experience: "You Can't Go Round Saying Fuck On Stage".

And, as somebody reminisced (http://www.sturmsoft.com/Writing/Old_ephemerides/20010826.htm) about Thorpie:
The highlight of Long Way to the Top for me was Billy Thorpe reminiscing about his many arrests for saying "fuck" on stage. He quoted a police sergeant who said: "If that cunt says fuck on stage again, I want that fucking cunt arrested!" It made us laugh then and it makes me laugh still!Well, bother! I've had to use the WORD a couple of times here, just to discuss it. Fits of the vapours may now be had.

[DistroMan]

Just for the hell of it, because I'm like that sometimes I add the following:

My father used to give emotionally moving speeches and moved his audience. I rather think he positively influenced me with them too. And swear? Oh yeah. :)

And before you start thinking he started me swearing, he didn't. I started that quite a while after leaving home. :)

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

**Question for history buffs:

Was it HC "Nugget" Coombs or John Button who said "Never resign. If you resign, you're fucked"?

[Ford]

Over the years in showbiz, I knew a few blokes whose mission seemed to be to fuck every woman in creation. Some sought to fuck the comple racial and skin colour set, others didn't discriminate or were maybe too out of it to notice.

However, one, a drummer of course, could not rest while any female he met, married or not, had not been fucked by him.

But he did have his moral limits. Once in my presnce and I am told many times not in my presence, he has king hit blokes who said "FUCK" in the presence of a woman! :eek:

[Praxis]

But he did have his moral limits. Once in my presnce and I am told many times not in my presence, he has king hit blokes who said "FUCK" in the presence of a woman! :eek:
A bloke's gotta have a code.

[Seamus]

I'm rather fond of Kevin Bloody Wilson's classic "You can't say 'cunt' in Canada",which is apparently true.

I swear for emphasis,to intentionally shock and from anger and frustration. I do not usually swear at or in front of small children,unless they do something stupidly dangerous,then I might,from fear for their safety. I rarely swear in front of my 83 year old mother.

BUT, I reserve the right to swear whenever and at whomever I chose,mindful of possible consequences. Of course I respect the rights of anal retentive wowsers such as what's her name;they are as important as mine,but no more so.

To censor oneself to avoid giving offence it to be manipulated by an especially odious form of passive aggression. I decline to comply.

[starr]

I'm rather fond of Kevin Bloody Wilson's classic "You can't say 'cunt' in Canada",which is apparently true.

I swear for emphasis,to intentionally shock and from anger and frustration. I do not usually swear at or in front of small children,unless they do something stupidly dangerous,then I might,from fear for their safety. I rarely swear in front of my 83 year old mother.

BUT, I reserve the right to swear whenever and at whomever I chose,mindful of possible consequences. Of course I respect the rights of anal retentive wowsers such as what's her name;they are as important as mine,but no more so.

To censor oneself to avoid giving offence it to be manipulated by an especially odious form of passive aggression. I decline to comply.

I don't tend to swear very much in real life or online. Most of my swearing is when I'm talking to myself and not usually out loud. :p

I don't swear in front of children and I do feel uncomfortable if I hear people swearing near my kids as I'd rather they didn't start to include swearing in their vocabulary at least until they start school. :rolleyes:

That is just my personal style and preference and I don't think I have a right to force it onto anybody else. In adult company I don't feel uncomfortable if people swear. :cool:

All of that being said, I am in complete agreement with the people here who are saying there should be no censorship of swear words on the forum. :)

I agree that the swear words per se are just words and it is the intent behind the words that is more important.

[Crocodile]

That is just my personal style and preference and I don't think I have a right to force it onto anybody else. In adult company I don't feel uncomfortable if people swear. :cool:

All of that being said, I am in complete agreement with the people here who are saying there should be no censorship of swear words on the forum. :)

I agree that the swear words per se are just words and it is the intent behind the words that is more important.That is probably the smartest thing I have read on this thread!

Having said all that though note that if people keep saying "fuck" repeatedly in a sentence (take Gordon Ramsay for example) it tends to make the word and sentence it is being used in less effective, and more of an annoying redundancy. That's just me though I think.

[davo]

So if it is only a word, why not use another in it's place. Why demand to hang onto a four letter word that is only a word....nothing more?

by the same reasoning, if it is only a word, why use another in it's place?


We tell ourselves that words don't hurt or injure but those who have been bullied would beg to differ. ("words can bring me down")

oh come on, can you bully someone with words and not use a swear word? of course! it's not the swear word that bullies someone, it's what someone is saying about someone.

If i said to a parent their kid is a fucking idiot, it would hurt not because of the word in the sentence. Yea you would think me really rude/obnoxious etc etc

If I said to a parent their kid appears to have clinical symptoms of severe mental retardation so low on the Binet-Simon classification system that is they are below 'imbecile' thus under 20 in IQ range ... would that be any better? I haven't sworn ... is my comment less hurtful?

I'd argue it's got nothing to do with the words, that's minor, and indeed it is the context and meaning behind the words that is the bullying.


Fiona expressed a dislike of the use of the word in these Forums. Surely her opinion is valid.

Yes, but that does not make it right. People have all pointed out their opinions. I think dealing with reality by looking at it logically and discussing the pros and cons etc is the best process for dealing with issues of 'dislike'


I for one would like examples of historically significant or emotionally moving speeches that touched the audience or positively influenced mankind and included the use of the F word (repeatedly).

what has this got to do with anything? your using a fallacy argument here. Just because someone may not be able to come up with a speech as requested does not make your position truth.


Personally I think the word is overused and is at worst offensive at best unneccessary in Forums such as these.

So define 'unnecessary'. define 'offensive' Why is it unnecessary any more than your comments in this thread are unnecessary or offensive?

[Crocodile]

http://www.geocities.jp/macchangumi/pic/fack.jpg

[SchizoDeluxe]

I love the argument that swear words are just words. The F word is just a four letter word, just four letters strung together.

So if it is only a word, why not use another in it's place. Why demand to hang onto a four letter word that is only a word....nothing more?

You just answered your own question there, it is just a word so what difference does it make if we use it or another?


We tell ourselves that words don't hurt or injure but those who have been bullied would beg to differ. ("words can bring me down")

Again, that's not the words, it's the context of the words being used. You can insult a person with a variety of "non-swear" words, does that mean we should stop using those words as well? Where does it end?


Fiona expressed a dislike of the use of the word in these Forums. Surely her opinion is valid.

But there are lot's of things we all dislike, as I said in the above argument, there are lot's of words, things etc that offend people, does it mean banning all of that as well? Again, it begs the question, where does it end? And why is it offensive when other words can mean the exact same thing? Sounds hypocritcal to me.


I for one would like examples of historically significant or emotionally moving speeches that touched the audience or positively influenced mankind and included the use of the F word (repeatedly).

There are many I am sure, but probably more so in history rather than now as definitions of swear words have expanded and changed over time. These words are not necessarily used in speeches very often because of the way people react to them, but they are used for strong emphasis when people are making a point. Again, it's the context of it usuage. Saying the word fuck is not offensive but telling someone to fuck off can be.


Personally I think the word is overused and is at worst offensive at best unneccessary in Forums such as these.

There are a lot of words and phrases overused. Not a valid point.

Monty Python may explain it better :D

26UA578yQ5g

[Loki]

Your mother was a hampster and your father smelled of elderberries.

There, no swearing.

It's all been done so many times before.

And of course many of you will know the reference

[GenericBox]

Fuck, I don't know the reference... :)

(Sorry who could resist not posting in this thread?)

But seriously, I have no idea.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Fuck, I don't know the reference... :)

(Sorry who could resist not posting in this thread?)

But seriously, I have no idea.
This is on-topic too, then. (http://justfuckinggoogleit.com/)

[Crocodile]

I love the argument that swear words are just words. The F word is just a four letter word, just four letters strung together.

So if it is only a word, why not use another in it's place. Why demand to hang onto a four letter word that is only a word....nothing more?
Comming up next:
xopZGwEqS2I&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000

[humantoo]

The use of the F word is an agree to disagree situation.

Language is a constantly evolving thing but I challenge anyone who thinks the F word is socially acceptable yet. I agree there are situations where the word can be used and not offend but communicating on-line with others obviously isn't one of them.

My argument is that in a forum setting you cannot possibly know who will read your submission and therefore it may be best keep language standards high.

The word is powerful. I saw a movie on the weekend called "Gone baby Gone". How did director Ben Affleck portray a slum? By having a kid yell to the main character as he drove by...."Go F your mother". It could have been a child from any suburb but the language drew the picture of neglect and poverty.

Go back and read Fiona's original entry. Unnecessary foul language can be offensive.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

@Humantoo: You are hereby officially informed that your dissent has been noted.

I am certain that most posters are familiar with the idea of an internet that can be read by anybody with the means to do so.

Please try to understand that your concern, and reluctance to be associated with a word that obviously bears some disproportionate importance in your mind, are not shared by all parties here.

We don't all place the same fucking connotations on words.

[common pirate]

"If you can't say Fuck, you can't say, Fuck the government."
— Lenny Bruce

[Fearless]

I will admit when I came here I was not as used to seeing what some would class as profanity as other forums I have been on or been a moderator of. I don't use these words as often as many as that is how I was raised. That said I am not offended by these words unless they are intended by use to be offensive (context). I can see both sides of the tale but I do appreciate more that it is how these words have evolved and been classed as bad or inapropriate.

I had an ex-girlfriend who was insulted if the 'c' word was used in a negative light as she believed strongly that what it actually represents should not be made to be a negative. I wouldn't have use for the word anyway but even by avoiding using it showed a slant of it's negative association.

I think your upbringing has a big influence on language. It did in my case.

[two dogs]

...
I had an ex-girlfriend who was insulted if the 'c' word was used in a negative light as she believed strongly that what it actually represents should not be made to be a negative.
...

Was she similarly insulted if the prick word was so used? :)

[eclectic]

Fuck, I don't know the reference... :)

(Sorry who could resist not posting in this thread?)

But seriously, I have no idea.

GB, I suggest some compulsory Python viewing for you immediately! If you have not seen either the Life of a certain Brian, or the boys' quest for a Holy Grail then you MUST remedy this as soon as possible!

[Crocodile]

The use of the F word is an agree to disagree situation.And do you agree or disagree?
Language is a constantly evolving thing but I challenge anyone who thinks the F word is socially acceptable yet. I agree there are situations where the word can be used and not offend but communicating on-line with others obviously isn't one of them.I think it is socially acceptable. At least many I talk to say it and I say it so it definitely is socially acceptable. I guess if you live in an environment with a bunch of prissy Christians who get offended if you say "poo" then it may not be too socially acceptable for them, but it all really depends on what "socially acceptable" means.
My argument is that in a forum setting you cannot possibly know who will read your submission and therefore it may be best keep language standards high.Many say things against religion in this forum. So just because there is the slight possibility that the pope is reading this, or that the prime minister is reading this, should we stop saying it? If we are to keep the "language standards" (whatever they are) high then we may as well not have the Internet for a start.
The word is powerful. I saw a movie on the weekend called "Gone baby Gone". How did director Ben Affleck portray a slum? By having a kid yell to the main character as he drove by...."Go F your mother". It could have been a child from any suburb but the language drew the picture of neglect and poverty.How come it is so powerful?
Go back and read Fiona's original entry. Unnecessary foul language can be offensive.I've read it. Many have read it. And many including me think that it is a ridiculous thing to enforce such censorship. If somebody finds it offensive they do not have to read it. Simple as. Many people find sex quite sinful, yet those same people have many children. See the irony?

[SchizoDeluxe]

The use of the F word is an agree to disagree situation.

Language is a constantly evolving thing but I challenge anyone who thinks the F word is socially acceptable yet. I agree there are situations where the word can be used and not offend but communicating on-line with others obviously isn't one of them.

It's not about whether the word is socially acceptable, it's about the fact that they are just words and people put too much emphasis on it's negative possiblities rather than it's usuage.

My argument is that in a forum setting you cannot possibly know who will read your submission and therefore it may be best keep language standards high.

That's like saying that when going to a concert, band's should not use any form of profanity in case it offends someone. When you attend something like this, you must be prepared to hear whatever is being played and said. This is a public forum, if people don't like what is being said, then all it takes is one click. It's the same old arguments when TV and radio experience all this hoopla, it's no different and people have the option to turn off. Censorship doesn't belong in these formats, especially on the internet. And high standards of language? Who set's these standards? And by what reason, considering that language is a universal thing not bound by people's emotions and feelings on certain words?

The word is powerful. I saw a movie on the weekend called "Gone baby Gone". How did director Ben Affleck portray a slum? By having a kid yell to the main character as he drove by...."Go F your mother". It could have been a child from any suburb but the language drew the picture of neglect and poverty.

Granted it can be a powerful word and yet if you were to say "Go screw your mother", they would not be offended at all? As pointed out several times now, it's not the words, it's the context of the language being used, what the person is implying and how it's being said. The words are merely a way for people to communicate their thoughts and ideas, the words themselves are harmless and meaningless until people use them in certain ways. Take the word cock, it has several meanings and when used in almost every other way, people do not take offense to it. BUT, as soon as you refer to it as part of the male genitalia or as part of an insult, then it becomes a "dirty word". What has changed? Context.

Go back and read Fiona's original entry. Unnecessary foul language can be offensive.

Only to those who get offended by it, and usually without a valid reason. I just do not get understand the fuss about words in and of themselves.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Nothing new can come of this, I think.

We're all individuals, as Brian (sandals be unto Him!) once remarked. From Intentionally Sweary to Blushing, our people cover that big bell curve, and we've got to agree to differ: we also have to accept that our opinion in matters of taste and preference is not better than anybody else's.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4304793489_1b9abdcab3_o.jpg

I have undertaken to close the thread.