Dan Gleibitz: issues with moderation, manner, management and more

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Dear Administrator:

I seem to be locked out of the "what do atheists think" sub-forum, as I cannot find it anywhere.

Seriously, we are diverse in many things, and not even entirely united in disbelief in god/gods.

Diversity is always going to bring some division and dissent, not to mention chances for sub-editorial alliteration.

If racism was perceived, you may rest assured Team Mod would be down on it.

Perhaps Dan would like to identify the entry with which he takes issue and we could discuss it.

[Protium]

Between the various conspiracy-theory threads and thinly veiled racism in the "what do atheists think" sub-forum, the uneven playing field and the multitudes of latitude for a few 'special' types who think every thread is fair game for python-esque (and frankly usually unfunny) endless witticisms, this is not a forum I can recommend to friends of the free-thinking variety, lest it reflect badly upon me.

WTF are you on about. Care to supply links?

[Dan Gleibitz]

Dear Administrator:

I seem to be locked out of the "what do atheists think" sub-forum, as I cannot find it anywhere.

Seriously, we are diverse in many things, and not even entirely united in disbelief in god/gods.
Yes, that was going to be my next constructive criticism. The following sub-forum:Ask an Atheist (4 Viewing)
Want to know Atheists' viewpoints on things? Want to better understand the Atheist worldview? ... implies precisely the opposite of what you just said. My bold for clarity. May need a closer look?

Please pretend that I was able to replace the words "thinly veiled" in my earlier post with "heavily burka'd". I'm sure there overt racism is not tolerated here.

WTF are you on about. Care to supply links? How politely put!

The oft amusing--but in total distracting--funny asides are fairly evident I would think. Many of the decent threads seem to end up quite elsewhere for reasons that no doubt amuse the participants.

That's fine, I don't have a problem if that's the kind of 'hands-off' approach to moderation.

But then my salutation and welcome to a new-comer was shifted whole to the Saint Mary thread without notice because it had mention (in only a rhetorical fashion, and only in response to the newcomer's opening) of the canonisation process. Again, no problem if that's the kind of hands-on approach to moderation (but my rhetorical questions didn't fit where they were shifted and my salutation there was then absurd. Hands-on moderation needs care, IMO).

Meanwhile there were two live threads simultaneously dealing with alleged overpopulation and ways to reduce it. Again, taken on its own, no problem. No need to combine topics if that's not how the forum works.

Similarly, the Fantasy forum was breeding Fassbinder threads. Again, no problem, if that's how things go.

My criticism isn't with any of these approaches. It is with the pick-'n'-choose approach. That said, I moderate on another forum, so I do know how different things are from that side. Listen to what I've written or trash it - neither option bothers me, nor should it you.

That's that.

The other thing is that I guess I'm currently a little disappointed. On other forums I frequent, patent bullshit (such as the depopulation threads) would be laughed at and derided. Holders of diverse views still hold diverse views, but many voices would point out that optimumpopulation.whatnot is a non-scientific and pseudo-scientific group with an agenda.

I'd have thought more atheists would be standing up to be counted against those who would impose their will upon the breeding habits of others (or is it only when the church interferes in the bedroom that it is wrong???), and stand up for individual rights.

I didn't expect all atheists to speak with one voice, after all the only thing atheists necessarily share is an absence of faith in a god. I guessed the official AFA forum would have more rational thinkers than elsewhere. Wrongly? Maybe I joined during the quiet season? Maybe I've jumped to conclusions?

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Originally Posted by The Irreverent Mr Black:
Dear Administrator:

I seem to be locked out of the "what do atheists think" sub-forum, as I cannot find it anywhere.

Seriously, we are diverse in many things, and not even entirely united in disbelief in god/gods.Yes, that was going to be my next constructive criticism.

Oh, good. It would probably be your first constructive criticism, and your accuracy could use some work too.

The following sub-forum:
Quote:
Ask an Atheist (4 Viewing)
Want to know Atheists' viewpoints on things? Want to better understand the Atheist worldview?... implies precisely the opposite of what you just said. My bold for clarity. May need a closer look?

At least you have actually named part of the forum that was there. I am prepared to accept that you were unintentionally inaccurate, as to think you were being disingenuous would be most uncharitable.

You're still pointing at an acre and telling me to look for a square inch, and find something you claim you can see. On your bike and bring back a quote. Extra points if it's current within three months.

Please pretend that I was able to replace the words "thinly veiled" in my earlier post with "heavily burka'd". I'm sure there overt racism is not tolerated here.
I hope you can tell the difference between religion, race and culture, Dan. If it is actually racism, kindly indicate and quote so it can be discussed.


Originally Posted by Protium:
WTF are you on about. Care to supply links?How politely put!

The oft amusing--but in total distracting--funny asides are fairly evident I would think. Many of the decent threads seem to end up quite elsewhere for reasons that no doubt amuse the participants.

That's fine, I don't have a problem if that's the kind of 'hands-off' approach to moderation.

But then my salutation and welcome to a new-comer was shifted whole to the Saint Mary thread without notice because it had mention (in only a rhetorical fashion, and only in response to the newcomer's opening) of the canonisation process. Again, no problem if that's the kind of hands-on approach to moderation (but my rhetorical questions didn't fit where they were shifted and my salutation there was then absurd. Hands-on moderation needs care, IMO).

Meanwhile there were two live threads simultaneously dealing with alleged overpopulation and ways to reduce it. Again, taken on its own, no problem. No need to combine topics if that's not how the forum works.

Similarly, the Fantasy forum was breeding Fassbinder threads. Again, no problem, if that's how things go.

My criticism isn't with any of these approaches. It is with the pick-'n'-choose approach. That said, I moderate on another forum, so I do know how different things are from that side. Listen to what I've written or trash it - neither option bothers me, nor should it you.

That's that.

The other thing is that I guess I'm currently a little disappointed. On other forums I frequent, patent bullshit (such as the depopulation threads) would be laughed at and derided. Holders of diverse views still hold diverse views, but many voices would point out that optimumpopulation.whatnot is a non-scientific and pseudo-scientific group with an agenda.

And actually fairly off-topic. We are tolerant: is that now a problem?

I'd have thought more atheists would be standing up to be counted against those who would impose their will upon the breeding habits of others (or is it only when the church interferes in the bedroom that it is wrong???), and stand up for individual rights.

An atheist's job is simply not to believe. Unfortunately there is not even a creed that enjoins atheists not to be arseholes, or says "thou shalt not be a whining kibbitzer while others doeth stuff."

Please let us know your expectations if you would like them met. (No guarantee of "met" is stated or implied.)

I didn't expect all atheists to speak with one voice, after all the only thing atheists necessarily share is an absence of faith in a god. I guessed the official AFA forum would have more rational thinkers than elsewhere. Wrongly? Maybe I joined during the quiet season? Maybe I've jumped to conclusions?
Perhaps you could contribute to the positive side of the culture. Or not.

[Fearless]

Dan, are you trying to be insulting or just accidentally being insulting?

Firstly, please PM a moderator with the instances of racism on these forums and we will investigate the claims. FYI, I would warn against laying false claims.

As for your assessment of general conversation threads:

On other forums I frequent, patent bullshit (such as the depopulation threads) would be laughed at and derided.

We discuss all manner of things here... some so intellectual I tend to steer clear of as I am not as switched on as many, some may be as simple as do you scrunch or fold (ok maybe going a little too far), but if some of us sit below your expectations and you find this a little bit hard to stomach don't feel pressured to stay. Not all of us are as intelligent as you project we should be, sorry to disappoint. Atheism doesn't necessarily equal mensa standards.

All I really ask is if you could maybe take your contemptuous attitude down a few notches. Saves insulting some like me who can't mix it as well with the intellectuals.

Thank you

[Dan Gleibitz]

With respect Black, you do seem to be taking this rather personally.

My first post to this thread was certainly constructive. Your dismissal of the rest of my considered response is, as I said, fine by me. If you are sensitive to criticism, there's no need for you to try to understand where I'm coming from. :)

One response from me to this:
We are tolerant: is that now a problem? No. It's the silence in the face of absolute unreason that surprised me. I guess it would be strange to be the lone dissenting voice at a Nuremberg rally too. Would that voice have a point if he asked why nobody else was speaking out? Perhaps the others were merely being tolerant? ;)

[Dan Gleibitz]

Fearless moderator,

I apologise if you have been insulted. Please point precisely to the insulting bit and I'll have a long hard look at myself. :)

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Example?

More points for current example.

[Fearless]

Fearless moderator,

I apologise if you have been insulted. Please point precisely to the insulting bit and I'll have a long hard look at myself. :)

Sorry, did I say 'insulting'? maybe I meant condescending. I don't know... I am a bit simple.

[GenericBox]

Dan,

I share some of the same opinions as you do on this topic, and I had a little outburst sort of like you have had (albeit it appears I did not manage to insult or invoke as much emotion as you), and from my experience I rationalised I had two options...

1/ Shut up, ignore it, and continue to enjoy the other aspects of this forum.
or
2/ Shut up, and quit.

Both involved me shutting up, and I chose option 1 to carry through.

I do know exactly where you are coming from however and I can see your point - but unless you want to devise a way we can make our own forums, which let's face it - with our opinions would be a very small and exclusive forum, ie. boring - we should just ignore the parts that we don't enjoy (ie. Fantasy Island) - and continue participating nicely in the rest of the forum.

Or you can always opt for option 2, and up and leave... We are (somewhat) anonymous, I'm sure noone will miss us.

Your choice, but as this is provided to us free, and offers (me at least) a good source of entertainment and stimulus - I suggest you drop it, and move on :)

That's my suggestion anyway. From someone who went through it all before ;)

[Fearless]

No one is saying shut up, quit or move on but there are ways and means of getting points across.

I just don't think some people are reading back far enough to get a good grasp of the issues and reasons why things are done the way they are and why some decisions are made.

Of course we are open to suggestions or constructive criticism, it is when it lands in the realm of opinionated banter without knowing (or caring to know) more about the history of certain issues and situations where is when we tend to react.

What we don't appreciate is this knee jerk assumption that over moderating is taking place and/or we are moderating by emotion etc

I'd hope people can trust that we have a little more depth than that.

As I have said before we can't please everyone all the time and the bigger these forums grow the more division on decisions will be apparent. We are actually quite laid back in a moderating sense but the only way you will see this is by frequenting other places I guess.

Try to enjoy the forums, if you don't then you are only wasting your own time really.

[davo]

I have no idea what people are talking about .. trawling thru the threads now

[wearestardust]

On the basis of this ...


I'd have thought more atheists would be standing up to be counted against those who would impose their will upon the breeding habits of others (or is it only when the church interferes in the bedroom that it is wrong???), and stand up for individual rights.


... I was going to observe that you are tending to at least looking and walking like confusing lack of rationality with lack of agreement with yourself. But I don't need to because ...

I guess it would be strange to be the lone dissenting voice at a Nuremberg rally too.

... I call Godwin.

You lose.;)

[Logic]

Diversity of opinion and the right to articulate your opinion are overrated... apparently.

[Dan Gleibitz]

Hello! :)

Firstly, thank you whoever for splitting this thread.
Secondly, several of you are right, I was ignorant of local history when I made my first criticism.
Thirdly, this will be my final post in this thread.

Now, in reverse order...
Diversity of opinion and the right to articulate your opinion are overrated... apparently. Not at all. See #6 above.

... I call Godwin.

You lose.;) Absolutely! I would have if you hadn't, and it was certainly front of mind when I passed you the gimme. :D

@ Davo: You and me both apparently.

Dan, are you trying to be insulting or just accidentally being insulting?
<snip>
All I really ask is if you could maybe take your contemptuous attitude down a few notches. You're quite right to note that I often write like a prat, and can be careless with words. I write quite a lot. I do well at technical papers. Writing for general consumption is more difficult, but I enjoy it. Draft 3 or 4 is where I can usually share it with other human folk... and then they still have to point out where I sound like a cock. :o

I will try to do as you suggest.

Sorry, did I say 'insulting'? maybe I meant condescending. I don't know... I am a bit simple. I checked. You're not.
No one is saying shut up, quit or move on but there are ways and means of getting points across. See next.

from my experience I rationalised I had two options...

1/ Shut up, ignore it, and continue to enjoy the other aspects of this forum.
or
2/ Shut up, and quit.

Both involved me shutting up, and I chose option 1 to carry through. Thanks, Mr Box, the bits of your post I haven't quoted have been taken on board. I think there's a 3rd option for me, and that is to say my piece, move on, and continue to agitate against what I see as unreasoned. That's kinda who I am anyway so it's no big change of tack. :)

See my "thirdly" above. There will be some shutting up soon.

I certainly am not leaving. I've got some questions forming relating to freedom that I can't sort out on my own, but I'm sure others here have dealt with many times before. I'll be asking for help later in the week. I just read The Australian Atheist issue #18, and I'm stoked with all that AFA have got going on, and I can't help but support what they're for and what they are headed for.

And I'm sure that despite our differences, I'd enjoy a beer/scotch and a yarn with most anybody I've seen around here. So leaving just ain't an option. ;)

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Stick around, Dan. Some mod issues were already under discussion behind the Purple Paisley Door, and you may find agreeable changes underway.

[Logic]

Hello! :)

You're quite right to note that I often write like a prat, and can be careless with words. I write quite a lot. I do well at technical papers. Writing for general consumption is more difficult, but I enjoy it. Draft 3 or 4 is where I can usually share it with other human folk... and then they still have to point out where I sound like a cock. :o



Ha! Props to you for that comment. :D

[Fearless]

I'd like to think everyone could enjoy the forums and the diversity they bring. You will get to see in time those who just come here to attack and not contribute anything (fundies with agendas typically). These people who burst in and fire from the hip will meet with equal (albeit opposite) reception.

If ever I say something along the lines of 'if you don't like it then move on' or similar I am not necessarily asking anyone to leave... I'd just assume that with most people, if they don't like what they are subject to, who generally find more to complain about then what they have to look forward to, that they can always move on.

Stark reality I guess.