Replacing Norton...

[GenericBox]

Okay. I'm over it.

I'm getting rid of Norton finally.

What do I need if I am replacing Norton 360 v3.0 to be just as secured? Or is there anything else you recommend to make me more secure? What do I need to get.

If anyone can help would be much appreciated.

Thanks :)

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

If you are replacing Norton with another AV software I would recommend ESET Smart Security as it isn't nearly as bloated and installs quite clean.

[davo]

Norton is the first thing I get users to take off their machine .. it is crap, and slows everything down.

I used to use AVG, but Microsoft Security Essentials is probably the best from my knowledge.

But hey, I only use Windows for certain games .. otherwise linux :)

[GenericBox]

I've never heard of Microsoft Security Essentials but it looks promising from their website... Anyone else able to offer a second opinion on it?

[GenericBox]

So is that all I'd need Davo?

MSE and that's all?

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

My opinion is that (knowing many Microsoft products) it is bloated and full of marketing fluff which nobody really will be using.

Remember IE7 when it came out Well here is a nice comparison (by Nathan Lineback (http://toastytech.com/evil/billsucks.html)) of what the differences between IE6 and IE7 really are:
http://toastytech.com/evil/ie6tube.pnghttp://toastytech.com/evil/ie7tube.png
Although they did their best to make it look as if there was a real security difference (well, the difference is that they tweaked many settings and fixed a few bugs here and there) it really wasn't the best I have seen.

Now I'm not a real "Microsoft hater" as such and I am not going to say NOT to get MSE but be careful. If there is too much eye candy over there, forget about it.

[davo]

Well I have found MSE to be non-intrusive with hardly any memory requirements, and ranks 2nd in the world atm with regard to response to latest binaries on the live charts :

http://mtc.sri.com/live_data/av_rankings

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I suppose MSE is for those with loads of RAM and disk space. (http://jmroberts70.livejournal.com/56070.html) I think I'll have a look at this MSE as I have just googled it and found some fairly positive reviews. IF it comes with a decent firewall too that would be good. And best of all at least it's free for Windows users.

[GenericBox]

Yeah I'm uninstalling Norton now and about to install it...

Worried about that RAM comment though because I have a "fairly" (relative to computers that is - its about 4 years old) laptop with only 1gb RAM, so I shall see.

[GenericBox]

Yeah I'm uninstalling Norton now about to install it.

I'm a little worried about the RAM comment though... I have a fairly old (relative to computers - its about 4 years old) laptop with only 1GB ram...

So I shall see.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I got a 6 year old laptop with 1GB of RAM as well and I'm also worried about RAM commitment. To be honest why should anybody need more RAM than that?

[GenericBox]

I use Adobe CS3 (wishing it was CS4) for work, and that takes alot of RAM... Then theres gaming.

And then Microsoft Office...

1GB works fine, but starts to go choppy if I try to open say Photoshop CS3, Flash CS3 and Premiere CS3 - while I had Norton, and also having Outlook open for emails...

I think an upgrade is in order for me...

Haven't been able to play a decent game in zonks :(

[davo]

meh, there's always a juggle between resources and accuracy.. looking at the date of the test, it was also using an older version? remember this is a recent program, there was a known MSMPENG CPU problem recently. This problem was very high in v1.5, but was mostly resolved in v1.6 and v2.0, and only occured on some machines.

anyway, each to their own, I install it as it was built for dummies and the peoples machines I install it on are just that ;) It's also free compared to the version you are comparing, and M$ are investing a lot in it to approach the issue of security which is really giving their brand a hammering.

[davo]

I got a 6 year old laptop with 1GB of RAM as well and I'm also worried about RAM commitment. To be honest why should anybody need more RAM than that?

ARMA 2

[MiKuS]

I got a 6 year old laptop with 1GB of RAM as well and I'm also worried about RAM commitment. To be honest why should anybody need more RAM than that?

I laid out memory so the bottom 640K was general purpose RAM and the upper 384 I reserved for video and ROM, and things like that. That is why they talk about the 640K limit. It is actually a limit, not of the software, in any way, shape, or form, it is the limit of the microprocessor. That thing generates addresses, 20-bits addresses, that only can address a megabyte of memory. And, therefore, all the applications are tied to that limit. It was ten times what we had before. But to my surprise, we ran out of that address base for applications within—oh five or six years people were complaining.

RAM is almost at the limit for density, researchers are now looking into new ways to jam more information into a smaller area. From what I can tell RAM will keep improving it's storage rates and keep getting cheaper (at least for the foreseeable future). The same principle goes for CPU's and transistors.

Many people choose to keep using their older computers (there's nothing wrong with that) but once they start to install the latest and greatest operating system and all the software that comes with it thing can really go pair shaped quickly.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

It is a good and relevant time to show this video:
kMYf2CUbs4I&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000
He has made a valid point about modern software!

[GenericBox]

I've got to actually uninstall Norton 360 yet....

This is painful :(

[GenericBox]

It keeps freezing halfway through the Norton Removal Tool :(

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Can't run the thing in Safe Mode though? If it needs network access connect it via a LAN cable and start it in Safe Mode with Networking although from memory (last version of Norton I ever used was Norton Internet Security 2004 so it may be different) it doesn't need network access.

[GenericBox]

I'm just running it in normal mode Windows XP...

It gets to "Processing MSI's by Product Code" at around 60-70% and just stops... It doesn't actually "Freeze" - just doesn't progress any further after considerable time.

When I CTRL+ALT+DELETE and end program it throws up that "Program not responding..." window and still doesn't close - so I have to kill the dumprep.exe process before it closes....

I am running it again if it doesn't work this time I'll do it in safe mode.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Oh my dog... they're ACTUALLY using MSI for a cleanup tool now?! OK in any case just get rid of ALL the startup items and then run it again.

Oh and get a copy of Revo Uninstaller too in case things go too ugly.

[robertkd]

And still expensive (ish) was looking at upgrading the server to 8GB but that is nearly $600 ouch, at the moment, I'll wait,....

The Nu windows vista is looking interesting I have been running the beta version and seems faster less resource hungry almost like XP, but I'm none to keen on the pricing $

As for AV I still like and use Kaspersky and haven't been a fan of norton AV in fact haven't been a fan of norton anything since their utilities V6.01,.. :eek:

But might check out Ikarus

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

The Nu windows vista is looking interesting I have been running the beta version and seems faster less resource hungry almost like XP, but I'm none to keen on the pricing $Because the larger the program is the better it is and therefore the more chance you have on emptying that heavy currency out of your wallet right?

[GenericBox]

I downloaded and installed MSE after finally removing Norton (I think)...

But I'm just worried - does this mean I don't have a Firewall anymore? Norton 360 had one included...

If I don't, does anyone know any good free ones?

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Use the Windows Firewall if all fails. It is not as good as many other firewalls but it is definitely better than nothing.

[Seamus]

As a tecnodill, I use Avast pro,which I find excellent. Also use Zone Alarm firewall (free version) Spybot Search and Destroy, (free) Peer Guardian (free) and 'track me not',a Firefox add on. (I'm a little paranoid about security.)

Have also used McAfee, Kaspersky, Nod 32, and PcCillin .I like Nod32 best.

Norton was the first antivirus I had,back in 1999. I remember it cost me $80. It seemed to fall behind other anti virus applications some years ago.

[Praxis]

My geek friends all (and I was surprsied by this) swear by AVG. Some have bought it but most say the free version is more than adequate for most people. Free! Gotta love that.

I'm thinking of switching to it next year but this year we're trying Kaspersky after a year of Trend Micro. Trend was fine but I found it crashed Firefox more times than I enjoyed.

http://free.avg.com/au-en/homepage

Cheers.

[davo]

AVG, SME etc are all good. Really the best protection is not to run untrusted applications, practice safe hex ;) Check out what works for you.

With regard firewalls, if just running one machine behind a router with firewall .. why run a second? sure if you have a number of computers you want to protect from each other on the LAN, or untrusted PC's connecting on the LAN ...

Depending on what you use your computer for, look at various OS as well. If your not using it for specific applications that require a specific OS, have a look at your options at least. I know business people that had to sell their old computers to get machines that could handle XP at least, running slow, and all they do is have someone read and write email on it!! wtf?? They could have had a blazing fast install of linux do the same thing, without the costs and maintenance nightmare that came with their Vista box. Of course the salesman told them they need 4Gig of RAM just to make sure.

Most all linux distros aimed at specific tasks can be installed and used by dummies. If you can configure something thru the web like your router, it's basically the same with dedicated functional distros like :

I use an old laptop with broken screen, broken hardrive, 1gig HD, 256RAM and run linux on it as a router, firewall etc.. using freesco, off a floppy disk.

I have an a-open mp915-b, Pentium M 400/533 MHz CPU, 1Gig RAM that has linux SME server installed, full web based (like your router) control of shares, backups of database machines on the network to DVD and machines to external USB harddrive, email management (spam and virus, plus mailboxes), VPN remote access to the office YOU NAME IT, and cost me all up ~$350.

I have a Sharp Zaurus SL-5500, 206 MHz CPU, has 64 MB of RAM and 16MB Flash on ARM architecture (with a 32MB CF card expansion), and run debian with touch screen graphics on it. Wireless card allows me to surf the web, read email etc while having a coffee across from a certain open wireless access point in town ;) 1995 I basically had an iPhone (without the phone bit;)

I personally go for linux (ubuntu) for my workstations, as I can install it basically on anything, I can tweak it to just run what I need for what I am doing and I just can't do that with windows or Mac. I do however use these OS for specific tasks.

Best tool for the person and the job they have before them I say, thus always good to look at your options.

[robertkd]

I'll wait, a pair of 4GB PC8500 SODIMMS actually cheaper about AUD$500, maybe next year:mad:

[GenericBox]

AVG sucks. Full stop.

Laptop has constant 20% (18-24% varying) CPU usage since installing. Running slower than ever.

At least with Norton it didn't actually slow the computer down once it had started, just took a while to load in.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

AVG sucks. Full stop.

Laptop has constant 20% (18-24% varying) CPU usage since installing. Running slower than ever.

At least with Norton it didn't actually slow the computer down once it had started, just took a while to load in.I second that. I have tried AVG but after a failed install and (after I did get to install) poor usability and bloat (which made me have to reinstall the OS too!) I decided to give up. Needless to say I'm never recommending AVG as a result.

[GenericBox]

I don't know if this is related to uninstalling AVG, or why the CPU usage was high while I had AVG, but after uninstalling AVG just now the CPU is still "highish" - in relation to my past readings.

CPU is sitting at around 10% now on idle. Usually (well before Norton uninstall/AVG install) it used to idle at 0-2%.

What can I do to find out whats happening? Windows Task Manager is too hard to keep track of - and the Task Manager itself says it uses like 8% CPU.

System Idle Process | 89
taskmgr.exe | 06
(flick between)
explorer.exe | 03
seachindexer.exe | 02
jqs.exe | 02
lsass.exe | 03
jusched.exe | 02
svchost.exe | 02

and a couple of others --- all these processes are "old" though - there is nothing new or surprising taking up CPU according to Task Manager.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Around 10% idle seems quite fine to me. I have it sitting at such too. I suspect it is some background services and programs warding off evil spirits doing whatever they are meant to do (eg. some housekeeping like a disk defrag that is scheduled) in the background.

[GenericBox]

I though so - but it was usually at 0-2%... Any reason for the change? If a computer is just old, does the CPU "wear out"? Considering now AVG is removed, and Norton - EVERYTHING is the same as before, so shouldn't it be running the same/better?

I have 53 processes running, task manager says about 5-8 continualy "flick" between using about 2-3 CPU.

Mem Usage is fine / better than before with Norton/AVG.
371M / 2459M

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

The device drivers do things too. Just click on the "Performance" tab and then in the menu above, go "View" and make sure the "Show kernel times" menu is checked.

The "kernel times" is showing what your device drivers and what the Windows kernel is doing in red.

[GenericBox]

Okay did that - the red is either a slither, or about half of the green. Which would make the 0-2% it used to be at.

The green is about double to the red line always. Even when the red spikes now and then.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I wonder if it is your file system and/or network I/O kicking in. Are you an administrator and do you have automatic updates turned on?

Also I noticed "searchindexer.exe" in there. Sounds quite suspicious to me.

[GenericBox]

searchindexer.exe is some (relatively) new Windows Live Search you can do so you can search files quicker, its been out for a few months.

Yeah I'm the sole user/administrator and auto updates are on but not appearing to be running. Usually when auto updates run there is a process like "WinUpd" or something like that.

It's just annoying - because it is running really slow. Especially Photoshop now - I can imagine Photoshop (CS3) would use a considerable amount of my old computer's power - so although an extra / unexplained 10% doesn't seem like much - it seems like it is 10% which is the difference between a nicely running CS3 and a shitty one.

And no, CS3 hasn't been changed/updated recently to explain a slow speed.

Every other program is slow too. Including Firefox.

At first I thought it was just Firefox, and thought what a shit browser - uses bloody 100% CPU.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

if it is "WinUpd" then you may have a problem. Is there one called "wuauclt.exe" there? That is your Windows Update process.

I find too by turning off the themes and other junk I have much more performance available to me.

Also some laptops (mine is a good example!) will tend to switch the CPU over to "power saving mode" when the charger is unplugged. This means that the CPU is limited to X clock cycles per second without the charger plugged in.

When running Photoshop try plugging the charger in first and seeing if that makes a difference. I find on mine it can make up to 3-4 times faster than when it is unplugged.

Alternatively there should be a setting in the BIOS (like in my laptop as well) that allows you to change that, at the cost of reducing the battery life.

[GenericBox]

Charger in and yes the windows update process is called that - just my bad memory.

It's still running slow as - as I test right now - its so slow that even with Internet Explorer (or Firefox for those anti-IE'ers) running only - I cannot even watch youtube videos because even if the movie is fully downloaded, it is just that choppy and slow the picture doesn't change, or every few seconds I get a bit of sound and video.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

You might want to try another browser like Konqeror or Opera for example too.

Also if you want to continue using IE I would recommend IE 8 too.

[GenericBox]

lol yeah I have IE8 and I have Opera, Firefox and Chrome... All the same problem.

It appears like something else is eating my CPU without my computer letting me know.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

What version of Flash do you use?

[nari]

Have just tuned in...
Re security - I use the Vista firewall, Spybot, Spamfighter and AVG. All free, and I have never been attacked by a nastie. AVG is GOOD....I reckon. Possibly the AVG Pro is even better.

I was warned off Norton years ago by a good friend who knows a heck of a lot about computer functioning.

nari

[Godless Ray]

I use the paid version of AVG and found it to be functional. I also love Window washer for cleaning crap out of the system. It has saved me ooodles of space and kept my unit working quickly.

Godless

[GenericBox]

AH HA!!! I FIXED IT YAY.

Turns out - and I think someone suggested it earlier - was that my CPU was in Battery Optimisation mode - EVEN when it was plugged in...... WTH!?

But anyway, after some fiddling with my Battery Manager program - I set it back to "Automatic" and straight away my CPU idle went back to 0-2%

Yay...

Now I know. And you too.

[AWarGuy]

I hate AVG and Microsoft with a passion.

But I like:

Norton (lol)
Malwarebytes
Spybot
NOD32
Avast