Greetings

[Joachim A Boaz]

And again.. Greets
I am in the sausage machine.;)
Am i a spammer?

No. But i do hold opinions that many will not like.
That is the nature of us no? And how we learn.

I was an athiest for several decades. Then...
The sum total of my accumulated information caused a red light to buzz. And would not stop. Untill i listened.
I do not like religion.. Yes.. It exists and we all know why it exists.
The huge and glorious tapestry of religion is a fundamental to our way of thought. A dun bun cannot be undun.

And thus we must reconcile.. for most of humanity is religious in one way or another.

My quest is to say. Yes religion is a fantasy.
But also to say.. science the method has revealed a thing we cannot explain. If i achieve this quest i get a better life for my grankids.
Thats so you know i am deadly serious. And will wield every WAIS point. every book. idea and concept, to achieving.

Happy new year

Boaz

[atheist_angel]

Greets

I was an athiest for several decades.
And thus we must reconcile.. for most of humanity is religious in one way or another.
My quest is to say... science the method has revealed a thing we cannot explain.

BoazHello JAB.

What can we do for ya?I am in the sausage machine.;)
Am i a spammer?

And will wield every WAIS point...idea and concept, to achieving.Mmmm...Wai Choy Fan?
YEe7PAIkChQ _ Hx6lXnwUh5I

[Praxis]

Congratulations! You're our first new fruitloop for the new year, right on New Year's Day, too.

Enjoy Fantasy Island *raises coconut shell daiquiri*

[Homosapien]

Wai Choy Rulz!! http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

WTF?! haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!


As for Boaz?

We need a new box for you buddy!!!

[proudmumma_atheist]

LOL this should be fun.

Anyway what has the Weschler Adult Intelligence Scale got to do with you and this? I am assuming here that is what you meant when you said points?

If that is the case you have a extremely high IQ is that what you want to share.

Well have a great time here.

[davo]

Hiya Joachim,

What exactly caused a 'red light to buzz' that I assume turned you to belief in a deity by your wording?

I'd be interested to hear exactly what this is.

[SchizoDeluxe]

All I read from that was blaaa-dee fucking blaaa...same shit, different person.

[Peter A]

science the method has revealed a thing we cannot explain.Boaz

What is it that science has revealed that it cannot explain? You don't say.

[Peter A]

Hey, come on J. A. Boaz, I want an answer to this question that I asked in response to your comment that science had stumbled upon something that it couldn't explain. What was this something?

It isn't right to just make such an assertion, leave out the specifics and any evidence that you may (or may not?) have, and then just disappear. That's rude! :mad:

[Joachim A Boaz]

Hey, come on J. A. Boaz, I want an answer to this question that I asked in response to your comment that science had stumbled upon something that it couldn't explain. What was this something?
It isn't right to just make such an assertion, leave out the specifics and any evidence that you may (or may not?) have, and then just disappear. That's rude! :mad:

Peter

Well i was waiting for a persistent SOB like yourself..:) [70 days.. not bad for me.. i once waited 4 months] Several replies were typical of the unthinking. Mr Black asks if i believe in a deity when i just said i do not.
and also the following post by himself.[maybe his WAIS in 2 digit ;)

"It isn't right" ?
No. very little is.

"science the method has revealed a thing we cannot explain"
Aside from time, gravity and 3>space. Which are laws that allow the structure called this universe to exist.
The universe displays a fundamental problem if one wishes to say 'it just came to be'.
I'm not talking about evolution of life or even stellar evolution [well defined]
I'm asking about the laws that allow anything to be.
How did they just pop up so well formed and complete. Laws that allow massively complex anti-entropic systems like life to exist at all.
Why not just a homogeneous cloud of hydrogen called our universe.

Science has not the faintest idea why. Anymore than it has any idea of what existed before the bang.

This huge hole in understanding/conception allows the rule coined by William of Ockham to come to the fore.
Randomness is not the simplest answer
Direction is.

Boaz

[Joachim A Boaz]

Jo A Boaz, I said what? Where?

a little coherence on your part would be a benefit here.

Mr Black

I said
"My quest is to say. Yes religion is a fantasy."

You replied
"Are you a believer in some sort of deity?"

Clear?

Boaz

PS
"Jo A Boaz, I said what? Where?" Seems rather incoherent my good man
You cannot prod me into anger. I'm here. And i'm all the more here the more you play that silly game.

[Loki]

This huge hole in understanding/conception allows the rule coined by William of Ockham to come to the fore.

We use Occams razer here, you seem to be using Occams sponge.

A little coherence would help me too. Do you believe in the existence of gods. Yes or no would clear that up nicely.

[Joachim A Boaz]

We use Occams razer here, you seem to be using Occams sponge.

A little coherence would help me too. Do you believe in the existence of gods. Yes or no would clear that up nicely.

Loki [a god. well a bastard relative]

What is a 'razer'?

No
Direction is not 'god' [God is of religion and religion is like house at pooh corner to me.]
Its what you do when you build an ant farm

Boaz

[Loki]

So who provided this "direction". If it's not a "who" but a "what" then we are just arguing semantics. Was this "who" some sort of intelligence, or not?

[Joachim A Boaz]

So who provided this "direction". If it's not a "who" but a "what" then we are just arguing semantics. Was this "who" some sort of intelligence, or not?

Loki

Are you intelligent. Can you direct?
Are you a god?

You fail to see your position

We are 'direction' to a culture of E coli
You suggest we cannot be that E coli on another level.

Where did you find such arrogance? [ah.. ego]

Boaz

[Loki]

I can sense E.coli and E.coli can sense me. I cannot sense anything "out there". Humanity has tried very hard to do so and so far nothing. Science has amassed an enormous amount of observational detail on the universe and so far not one iota of that provides any evidence that there is any sort of "direction" out there. If you have something which might provide this evidence please share.

It is vaguely possible there is some sort of intelligence controlling the universe which we cannot comprehend in any way. If this were the case I see no point worrying about it.

I cannot direct E.coli to do anything it is currently incapable of doing, so I'm not sure what you mean by "direct" in this case.

If a mispelling of a single word is reason for your scorn I suspect you aren't here for a polite conversation. Would you like me to point out the nomenclatural and grammatical errors in your own posts? I prefer to talk to the person, not the keyboard. If you want to trade insults we can do that too, but personally I'd prefer not to.

Anyhow, what do you think this "direction" amounts to. Is it just some vague quirk in the laws of nature or can you personify it?

[davo]

Looks like yet another leap to a conclusion based on no evidence, then trying to justify that it is possible.
Same deal.

[Peter A]

"science the method has revealed a thing we cannot explain"
Aside from time, gravity and 3>space. Which are laws that allow the structure called this universe to exist.
The universe displays a fundamental problem if one wishes to say 'it just came to be'.
I'm not talking about evolution of life or even stellar evolution [well defined]
I'm asking about the laws that allow anything to be.
How did they just pop up so well formed and complete. Laws that allow massively complex anti-entropic systems like life to exist at all.
Why not just a homogeneous cloud of hydrogen called our universe.

Science has not the faintest idea why. Anymore than it has any idea of what existed before the bang.

This huge hole in understanding/conception allows the rule coined by William of Ockham to come to the fore.
Randomness is not the simplest answer
Direction is.

Boaz

Okay, we'll I'm glad that you responded to my plea, and I thank you for that, but...
well, believe it or not science actually has, to a very large extent, explained 'time, gravity and 3-dimensional space'. It's called Relativity, and it comes in two flavours, Special and General. Developed by an obscure patents clerk early last century. Went by the name of Albert.

'The laws that allow anything to be' - I'm not 100% certain here, but I think you mean the laws that, for example, govern the motion of large stellar objects (gravity), the Four Laws of Thermodynamics, and so on. The physical laws and constants. Correct? Hang on a second, you're not, for you state 'I'm not talking about evolution of life or even stellar evolution...'

'How did they pop up so well formed and complete?'

Well, the simple answer is that they didn't. Remember that, according to current theory and understanding, the laws that govern nature didn't exist during the first few 'moments' after the initial 'creation' (hate using that word) event - i.e. 'Big Bang'. They developed shortly afterwards. Time and space, however, were there at the beginning.

'Well formed????' Surely not by a 'designer'. Explain the origin of the designer then. How can an entity exist outside of the constraints of time, space, causality...? Only a supernatural one. Okay, I won't go into this, this is another debate altogether.

'Laws that allow massively complex anti-entropic systems like life to exist at all.'

Anti-entropic systems, as you say, exist because they are adept at using available energy from convenient sources (e.x. plants absorbing energy from sunlight) to develop and grow in apparant violation of the Laws of Thermodynamics, in this case the second one.
However, the local level of complexity rises at the expense of the overall level of order within the universe as a whole, i.e. entropy still rises. It never goes down. Ever.
I just don't understand why creationists still try to argue for special creation from the Second Law of Thermodynamics. Come on, do better than this, please! It's just not challenging enough demolishing your arguments.

'Science has not the faintest idea why.'

...and you think that religion does? No wonder they call this Fantasy Island. Sheeeesh! By the way, science does have a reasonably good idea as to why things are the way they are, but by the same token is willing to acknowledge the gaps in our understanding, which is much more than canbe said about religion, which just makes up the answers!

'Anymore than it has any idea of what existed before the bang.'

Nothing existed before the Big Bang, because time itself did not exist before the Big Bang. Can an explorer travel further South than the South Pole? No, because every direction from this point on Earth is North. Before the existence of the universe there was no existence to speak of, so your statement is meaningless.

'This huge hole in understanding/conception allows the rule coined by William of Ockham to come to the fore.
Randomness is not the simplest answer
Direction is.'

Direction from...? What? God? Do you think that the best way to fill in a 'huge hole in understanding' is to just give up and say, 'we can't solve this, therefore God did it'? The God of the Gaps raises it's ugly head once more.

[wearestardust]

What is a 'razer'?

One ought be cautious about pointing out others' spelling mistakes when one is unable to master grammar and punctuation oneself.

[Truthmission]

Boaz,

As you have stated you believe in a Universe with direction, and are against randomness.. then you must believe in a Creator?? but not the ones that Human religions speak of as a deity?

I also can see the remarkable order in the Universe, is this the sole reason you are not an Atheist now?

I would be interested in a straight answer and if I got something wrong please let me know and explain.

Cheers