The Big Bang

[Godless Ray]

I had a conversation on the phone during the week with a very good friend who accidently got on the subject of the Universes creation. To my great surprise he didn't know what The big bang meant. I was mentiong this to the wife who also didn't know, then some other friends etc..

It all kind of shocked me as I thought it was almost common knowledge, If you guys get the chance this week ask a friend or two, I am now curious to how general this could be.

Godless Ray

[GenericBox]

Everything just magically exploded into existence from nothing didn't it? :p

[robertkd]

Ah but where did nothing come from? :rolleyes:

[boxsey]

I've had similar experiences....so I'm sadly not suprised at all.:(

[robertkd]

You might catch Bluebottle like that, but not me, can you prove you've got nothing in that box and how would you tell if it's another nothing or the same nothing?

[kencooke]

You stand a good chance of being also sadly surprised if you were to ask them if the sun orbits the earth or vise versa.

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Aardvarks never killed anybody.
WLB

[gruber]

You can't talk to me like dat! I've got an uncle in Tasmania!


does he have 2 heads:p

[robertkd]

Oh didn't pick that, thought more like,...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/72/Mark_Wing-Davey_as_Zaphod_Beeblebrox.jpg

:D

[robertkd]

Yes indeed always gave new meaning to "and now my lovely assistant" :D

[DanielV]

I admit that if it were not for my personal curiousity about science and the big questions, I would probably not know much about the Big Bang.

But I do happen to be curious and have read books and watched documentaries and discussed with other curious individuals, so I do feel like I know a bit about it.

But, then again, I don't know the rules to Cricket - so that goes to show that its not a matter of intelligence (I'm no brain), its a matter of being inclined to want to learn the stuff.

(No offense to fans of Cricket of course)

[wolty]

Agree dverbern, but I can remember when I was at school, science was so boring. Now I can't get enough but back then, there were so many other important things like girls and cars. It is sad to think of all the kiddies that never get an appreciation of science these days.

What to do? Maybe try to get a curriculam together that encourages kids to widen their ideas about science. Maybe let them study the parts of science that interest them. Something along the lines of cars=engineering, nature=evolution and so on. Science teaching in schools is really all about remembering facts at the beggining. Tailor-made science for children would be great.

[atuanui]

Some people think that after the big bang there will be "The big Crunch"
Then the whole thing will keep repeating.

At the moment the universe is still expanding.

[atheist_angel]

You stand a good chance of being also sadly surprised if you were to ask them if the sun orbits the earth or vise versa.
In America, we are well aware that: 'the Earth orbits around the Sun', thank you very much... :p
We just don't know: 'how long it takes to make the full revolution'. (Oh boy! :rolleyes:)

[proudmumma_atheist]

Just bizzare I to thought everyone had at least heard of it or a little about it.

I am going to have to ask just about everyone know...

It is a huge topic in our house as our children mind you religious people would have heard of it as well as i am sure religion took things from physics and made it fit into their world view.

[nari]

I've not come across anyone who has never heard of the BB. Mind you, they usually add: '..but I don't understand it' to which I reply: 'nobody understands it, they just keep hunting for the physics of it'.
I asked a theist one day about the BB. He replied that god got bored one day and decided to light some grenades and fireworks. Then he laughed. He's interested too.
We became keen BBers when the piccies came out decades ago showing the leftovers.
Now that the LHC is searching for the Higgs boson; if they find it the laws of physics will have to be rewritten completely, because it's not supposed to exist.
All fascinating stuff.

nari

[two dogs]

...
Now that the LHC is searching for the Higgs boson; if they find it the laws of physics will have to be rewritten completely, because it's not supposed to exist.

The existence of the Higgs boson is predicted by the Standard Model of particle physics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model). :confused:

[Caio]

I think most people know about the big bang, but many also misunderstand what it really means. Its a theory about the expansion of the universe and how all the atoms, planets etc...formed, its not about any "before" or origins of the universe.

The big bang-big crunch cycle hypothesis is what i favor, i think it had a lot of merit and if/when string theory is confermed, will fit nicely into the theory...

[kittymaehem]

Agree dverbern, but I can remember when I was at school, science was so boring. Now I can't get enough but back then, there were so many other important things like girls and cars. It is sad to think of all the kiddies that never get an appreciation of science these days.

What to do? Maybe try to get a curriculam together that encourages kids to widen their ideas about science. Maybe let them study the parts of science that interest them. Something along the lines of cars=engineering, nature=evolution and so on. Science teaching in schools is really all about remembering facts at the beggining. Tailor-made science for children would be great.

Wolty, not all is lost. I am a science teacher, and I can assure you that my students do get an appreciation of science. I realise that there are still some out there who don't get enough, but on the whole, science teachers *are* working with innovative ways to get kids involved in science.:)

As to what to teach to get them interested - we *do* teach intersting topics such as evolution and natural selection. I have had astronomy nights at school, an excursion to the Victorian Schools Space Education Centre, where the students dressed up and experienced a day as scientists on Mars, and a whole term of Forensic Science with year 9s. And these are just *some* of the topics covered in year 7-10 science.:)

Yes, there is some note-taking and fact-remembering required, but along with prac work, demos, research and other interesting stuff, the kids these days actually get a really balanced science course. They have to - they wouldn't sit there lesson after lesson if we didn't. They wouldn't learn, they wouldn't be engaged and they, along with their parents, would soon be complaining very loudly!

And btw, we do teach about the Big Bang theory. I wasn't taught about it in high school when I went through in the 90's, but first read about it reading Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything, and then learned more before I had to teach it to year 7s for the first time.

[wolty]

Thanks for that kitty, I realise that it is sometimes a hard topic to get children involved in. There is just so much in science that it must be hard to encourage them in so many different and diverse areas.

Not everyone has the ability to look at Jupiter on a telescope or go searching for fossils.
My senior was in ancient history which I am still interested in. That is one area that I never remember learning (archaeology) in a science course.
Questioning and critical thinking are I think the most important areas in high school.


Edit. Bill Bryson has to be an atheist. His book is great and his research must have had some impact on him. I actually have two copies. :)

[kittymaehem]

Edit. Bill Bryson has to be an atheist. His book is great and his research must have had some impact on him. I actually have two copies. :)[/quote]

I completely agree! His book should be compulsory reading!:)

[nari]

Bryson's book is probably something everyone should read as a teenager, or at least a young adult. After that, comes Dawkins' The God Delusion.
For a third book, I dunno, but Lawrence Krauss' work probably comes in here, Nothing is what interests me the most as well as stuff by Robert Sapolsky.

nari

[kittymaehem]

I agree nari, everyone should definitely read Dawkins next!

[Mentally Saturated]

Not everyone has the ability to look at Jupiter on a telescope or go searching for fossils.

Have to say, I disagree a little, there..

What isn't widely known is that U can see up to 4 of the moons around Jupiter with just a standard set of binoculars (say 7-10x50). You don't need a telescope to do some basic astronomy. I've wanted one for years, but I still go star-gazing occasionally... and binoculars is all I use.

As for the fossils, I'd expect some places are better than others to look, but it might be surprising how far you'd have to travel to get there. Closer than U think, I reckon. I'll admit tho, I have few ideas where I'd have to go to find some. Do U think the local coal mines might have some ?? ;)

Back on topic, I am rather partial to The Big Bang Theory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bang_Theory) of late... it's good for a laugh.. and Kaley Cuoco is definitely worthy of closer study.. :D

Gary

[Loki]

If anyone knows somewhere around Brisbane I can find some fossils I'd like to know. My 5 year old is very keen and I'd like to find somewhere he can find some, don't have to be good ones. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any information and have resigned myself to randomly stopping and looking in road cuttings. I know places in general, the Brisbane Valley around Esk is known for plant fossils for example. I don't know if coal mines would be much good, appart from access problems, I'm pretty sure features of individual plants don't often remain in coal, too much compression and distortion in the process.

[Mentally Saturated]

I don't know if coal mines would be much good, appart from access problems, I'm pretty sure features of individual plants don't often remain in coal, too much compression and distortion in the process.

It was a little tongue-in-cheek comment (evidenced by the smily)... coal mines contain essentially nothing but fossils. But I have been seriously wondering if any coal mines (quite a few in the Hunter Valley, where I live) have public tours, etc... especially since I recently saw the documentary Crude Impact (http://www.crudeimpact.com/show.asp?content_id=9665). Somewhere in there I remember them talking about oil companies having fossil experts on hand to help them find and analyse the potential locations for mining/extraction activity.

As I'm trying to get my head around radiometric dating at the moment, I thought they might be a good place to visit and to ask some questions of PPL who know this stuff.. ;)

Gary

PS: Apologies for going OT.

[nettybetty]

If anyone knows somewhere around Brisbane I can find some fossils I'd like to know. My 5 year old is very keen and I'd like to find somewhere he can find some, don't have to be good ones. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any information and have resigned myself to randomly stopping and looking in road cuttings. I know places in general, the Brisbane Valley around Esk is known for plant fossils for example. I don't know if coal mines would be much good, appart from access problems, I'm pretty sure features of individual plants don't often remain in coal, too much compression and distortion in the process.


I'm hoping that this is still the case, but quite a few years ago, I was in the CSIRO Double Helix science club and they held a camp at Wivenhoe Dam and a group was recovering some pretty impressive fossils in the road cuttings near the dam - I recall that someone found a dragonfly. But most were plants etc.

It may be worth asking at the QLD museum or even at UQ. Dr. Steven Salisbury is a paleontologist at UQ and he may know of a good volunteer site or somewhere kids would love to go. You should be able to find his details through google ( I don't have them at hand).

[Loki]

Thank you, will have a look.

[nari]

I visited Wivenhoe Dam eons ago and am surprised there are still fossils left there...!

If anyone happens to be around Canberra way and have some time, there are some Silurian trilobites in a creek bed near the airport, and magnificent limestone reefs with shells and Devonian fishies at Wee Jasper near Yass. Further south, Warden Head at Ulladulla is riddled with fossils....etc
Not much help for Brisbane-ites, but I am a fossil freak too.

nari

[wolty]

Not everyone has the ability to look at Jupiter on a telescope or go searching for fossils.


Have to say, I disagree a little, there..

What isn't widely known is that U can see up to 4 of the moons around Jupiter with just a standard set of binoculars (say 7-10x50). You don't need a telescope to do some basic astronomy. I've wanted one for years, but I still go star-gazing occasionally... and binoculars is all I use.




Yeah sorry. What I meant was that people just are not that interested, as in the ability is not in their minds, which is kinda sad.

Jupiter is around at the moment. And I have a telescope. :D

[wolty]

How cool would a trip to Winton be? Maybe one day.

[DistroMan]

Yeah sorry. What I meant was that people just are not that interested, as in the ability is not in their minds, which is kinda sad.

Jupiter is around at the moment. And I have a telescope. :D

Just having finished the International Year of Astronomy I would have to disagree back at ya. Our local Astro Society was doing public nights here and we had up to 300 people each month until we were told we 'had' to cut back due to safety reasons. Our membership has near doubled and we are still getting enquiries about future events. Things are definitely looking up, so to speak. :D

[wolty]

I am still misunderstood and I am sure it is entirely my fault.
My idea is that people just don't care about science and how truly wonderous it really is.
The "wow" factor of science is not getting through to most people, they would rather sit in front of the idiot box and watch inane repetition. I think that is what is sad.

Similiar to what mentally saturated said, people don't know that you can see four moons of jupiter at the moment. Not too many people even know how to do that and are not interested.

[DistroMan]

Peoples interest in science is limited to whether or not chocolate will be found to be good for them this year (it does seem to change back and forth every year). They see Scientists as geeky guys with lab coats and glasses. The only time it is different is when it is spoon fed to them by kids science shows on television. While I'm glad something is being done (is that show still going?) it does not make science 'accessible' to the masses. No pun intended.

[Mentally Saturated]

My idea is that people just don't care about science and how truly wonderous it really is.
The "wow" factor of science is not getting through to most people,...

Peoples interest in science is limited to... They see Scientists as geeky guys with lab coats and glasses.

The reasons for this are nicely addressed in Carolyn Porco's presentation (http://richarddawkins.net/articles/4601) to the AAI 09 Convention. Towards the end of this talk, she tells a beaut little story which portrays why some of us find inspiration in nature and mankind, and then goes on to show some of the latest photos taken around Saturn (NOT to be missed - there's certainly a couple of beautiful high-def "wow" photographs, and if they don't "wow", then I contend that U likely do not have the capacity to be "wowed" !). As the senior imaging specialist on the Cassini mission, she bears the nickname of "Madam Saturn", which always gets a giggle.

She may not be the best speaker around, but I still reckon she's great. She has the same enthusiasm as Sagan.

The high definition version of her presentation is downloadable here. (http://c0116791.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/Carolyn-AAI09-720-web.mov) (720p 260 Mb .mov file)

...they would rather sit in front of the idiot box and watch inane repetition. I think that is what is sad.

Over the past couple of years, I'll admit to spending a fair bit of time in front of the telly, watching "inane" repetition... but mostly of science documentaries and presentations such as the one above. Sad ? Maybe. But I think it could be worse.. :D

Gary

[wolty]

Over the past couple of years, I'll admit to spending a fair bit of time in front of the telly, watching "inane" repetition... but mostly of science documentaries and presentations such as the one above. Sad ? Maybe. But I think it could be worse.. :D

Gary

Yes mate, I love docos on tv as well. It isn't inane to watch educational subjects, no matter what it is about. Not really sad. I call it illuminating. :)

[wolty]

And yet more and more documentaries are rapid soundbites, jump-cut edits, and more speculation than information.

Even the BBC seems to be succumbing to the inevitable.

Ah, edutainment! My dog is so grateful to you for the extra hours she gets to spend playing with us.

Agree but it is still possible to find good quality doccos. You just have to search further and be more selective about what you watch. I find most nature and universe docos very good (hello david attenborough) along with many history shows as well. Is there a bad doco? ( besides the fallacious ones) Don't really know because I always feel I have learnt even one thing.

[Loki]

Have you noticed the presenters of these semidocumentaries, particularly those vaguely related to nature, seem to be in a competition to see who can best duplicate Steve Irwin, I.E. be very enthusiastic and shout a lot while waving your arms around like windmills. I have never been a fan of Steve Irwin but at least he had some idea of what he was talking about, which seems to have escaped many of this lot. Maybe I should have posted this in the "things you hate" thread.

That said, a good documentary is worth it's weight in gold. My 5 year old uses a surprising amount of his (small) alloted tv time watching Attenborough docos (over and over again). Done right, these can convey an enormous amount in a short time. I suspect Attenborough has ruined the scene for many following him, such a hard act to follow.

[wolty]

That said, a good documentary is worth it's weight in gold. My 5 year old uses a surprising amount of his (small) alloted tv time watching Attenborough docos (over and over again). Done right, these can convey an enormous amount in a short time. I suspect Attenborough has ruined the scene for many following him, such a hard act to follow.

Yes it will be a great loss when he is gone. He does bring the "wow" factor to the audience.
Maybe someone else will step up to fill the void when he is no longer around.