Another one of nature's roadblocks

[Duffy]

In the news today is Salma Hayek visit to Sierra Leone

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=6864594&page=1

I can remember a friend's mother telling me about the cross breast-feeding in PNG until Christian Missionaries put a stop to it. And thinking about it, I have yet to come across it in Australia (although we do donate breast milk but that's via a milk bank). Anyhow, this has to be noted as yet another Christian/sexual hang up that gets in the way of nature. Sure there is the issue of cross contamination but if that not an issue there should be no reason why a woman should not provide nourishment for another womans child.

It's just another angle on the stunted view of breast feeding that women have to endure for centuries, arhhhh.

[SchizoDeluxe]

I guess that should be ok but there still seems to be a slight awkwardness to that. I would guess it's the males of our species who have the most problem with this as men tend to associate breasts with sex which explains why it's an issue. Donating breastmilk though? I have to plead ignorance on that one, never heard of it before.

[boxsey]

Not sure if its just a religious hangup - i think its way more complex than just that. Formula put a stop to wet nursing, and became the norm...add in the nuclear family stuff and shove some infection control on the top, and we've ended up with a society that goes "ewww" at the thought of a woman feeding any child other than her own.
I never did feed another child - but clearly recall one afternoon, wishing that i could, because the baby i was looking after was so hungry and distressed. The ONLY reason i did not, was that i hadn't discussed it with the mum.

From memory, the WHO's reccommendations are 1. Mums breast milk. 2. Someone elses breast milk. 3. Formula only if you can't get 1 or 2. Its particularly important in places with limited resources and after natural disasters etc to provide breastmilk, anyway you can get it. Remember the chinese policewoman after the earthquakes?

[Duffy]

I never did feed another child - but clearly recall one afternoon, wishing that i could, because the baby i was looking after was so hungry and distressed. The ONLY reason i did not, was that i hadn't discussed it with the mum.

I had a similiar situation when my newborn was in intensive care. I was able to donate milk though, which was put through some process before able to be used. I understand why I wasn't able to feed another baby but it still felt like such a shame considering the human contact the little ones need. I've always liked the idea of 'it takes a village to raise a child' but we are moving so far away from that ideal.

I agree it may not be a religious issue alone but so many of societies hang-ups come from archaic Christian values which include sexual oppression and female ownership. That why I like to see woman breast feeding in public, I see it as a small step back to the natural balance of thing.

[boxsey]

No way of milk banking here, though. Seems to only be in a few places in oz you can do that. Mores the pity.

[davo]

I really like the idea of children being brought up in a wider community (the village concept mentioned) than just the nuclear family ... We are social animals after all. I think it's good bonding for all, and makes people more centred and caring.. Without as many of the hangups that cause deviancy issues.

[Duffy]

Hi Davo, (a quick side issue). I have seen tabloid TV demonstrate a scene where a child was crying in a park and how few people stopped to render assistance. Some of the men interviewed said they didn't want to look like peodophiles preying on her.

If that is true, how sad. And what a terrible state our society has found itself in.

[davo]

it's sad but oh so common it does not suprise me in the least, most males would feel this way, it would at least be on your mind about what others would be thinking of the situation:( i think there is complex social issues that have led to sexual predators of all types, not only mental issues.
Also, children are more likely to be assaulted by members of thier family than strangers ... Very complex social and mental spiral i think, and different causality for different offenders.
I wonder how much of it is because of the taboo nature of showing normal affection to children as you say and the closed nature of social interactions at all levels? that it makes itself something so strong in a predators mind is such a complex thing to quantify. Then couple that with media sexualising the young etc etc
How buggered up our social spiral has become :(

[Elbert]

Wet nursing was common until comparitively recently; among the weakthy classes... no christian hang-ups there. And wasn't there a biblical character whose daughter used to visit him in gaol and breast feed him?
The last fifty years has seen a creeping, prurient, puritanism invade western societies, paradoxically accompanied by an increase in the sexualising of women and the de-sexing of men.
In the main street of my local small country town gigantic buttock and breast cleavages, and exposed, beringed navels are common among women with skirts up to their crotches and halter tops that barely contain breasts with prominent nipples.
No male, on the other hand, dares expose more than a small length of calf, and his head and wrists -- not even a buttoned shirt with the top buttons open. All else is covered for fear of being labelled a poof.
Go to the beach where miniscule triangles of fabric almost cover the female bits, while board shorts from navel to knees are de rigeur for males... anything less is perverted.
Yet the woman breastfeeding on a seat outside Coles last Friday was summarily instructed to cover herself. Breasts are for sex, apparently, not for babies!:cool:

[His Noodly Appendage]

Yep, I've seen lost children at the easter show, and thought "No way am I taking someone else's kid anywhere without permission. Sorry kid, but I just don't need to ruin my life right now..."

It sucks.

[Serenity]

Isn't it amazing how unwilling human beings are to be reminded that they are mammals?

[Duffy]

Yet the woman breastfeeding on a seat outside Coles last Friday was summarily instructed to cover herself. Breasts are for sex, apparently, not for babies!:cool:

Who told her to cover up? Coles? Passers by? If that happened to anyone I know I'd be causing one hell of a riot!:mad:

[davo]

and there would be heaps of people backing you up, I'm sure

[Serenity]

Oh the looks I used to cop for feeding my son - a 2 year old that looked like a 3 year old :D No one ever actually said anything to me, though. I must have looked too ready for a fight.

[Duffy]

Oh the looks I used to cop for feeding my son - a 2 year old that looked like a 3 year old :D No one ever actually said anything to me, though. I must have looked too ready for a fight.

Stupid people!!!

http://www.best-of-web.com/_images/070829-014628.jpg

[boxsey]

I had my boobs out for years, never caught a snide remark or even a grimace. I was always prepared for it....just never happened.

[Serenity]

I think we must have exuded "lactivist", Boxsey.

[boxsey]

I can no longer hide it, can i.....

[Duffy]

I think we must have exuded "lactivist", Boxsey.

Oh Serenity I've just added another 'ist' to my list. Love it thanks.:)

[Elbert]

Who told her to cover up? Coles? Passers by? If that happened to anyone I know I'd be causing one hell of a riot!:mad:
An elderly couple with their two [I suppose] grandchildren.

[Duffy]

An elderly couple with their two [I suppose] grandchildren.

What a shame those grandchildren are exposed to the ignorance of their guardians. Oh social progress moves so slow.:(

[Serenity]

I actually found that the idiot-concentration was stronger in the middle-aged groups. People who had grown or almost grown children were the first to tell me that formula was just as good, that crying was good for the baby's lungs and that there was nothing wrong with smacking a child.

[Duffy]

I actually found that the idiot-concentration was stronger in the middle-aged groups. People who had grown or almost grown children were the first to tell me that formula was just as good, that crying was good for the baby's lungs and that there was nothing wrong with smacking a child.

Mmm smacking. An adults right to demonstrate a lack of control. Come on guys...'can o worms' time.:)

[boxsey]

No disagreement here.

[His Noodly Appendage]

I am not a violent person. But the sight of someone deliberately hurting their own child makes me very tempted to punch them in the face until they cry. You know, to show them that their behaviour is not acceptable.

[Fiery]

Was visiting my Mum and Dad and they invited my cousin, his wife, and their 2 children for dinner. Their boy (about 2) and my son (about 8) were sitting next to each other and their boy smacked my son to get his attention. She leans over, takes his hand, and slaps it and says "Stop hitting people". I stare at her with the Spock eyebrow set to stun and I watch the light slowly dawn. "Oh, I guess that doesn't really make much sense" she said, with a self conscious giggle.

Didn't stop them from spanking their children.

I wonder why the son is a whining spoiled brat and the daughter's doctor can't nail down if she's ADHD, bipolar, etc... (She's had about 3-4 different diagnosis on why she acts out, misbehaves at school and is generally a grade A brat.) Too bad a doctor can't diagnose bad parenting.

*sigh*