Govt. Funding for Convention

[Chrys Stevenson]

While the Parliament of the World's Religions has attracted $4.5 million in government funding, including sponsorship from the Victorian Government, the AFA, it appears, is still waiting for an answer four months after lodging its application for event funding for the Rise of Atheism Global Atheist Convention.

The good news is, they haven't said 'no'. The bad news is, they appear to be stonewalling. I know that once news of the funding for the Parliament of the World's religions became public, lots of people began contacting David at the AFA, and emailing me at Atheist Nexus asking if the Convention would get similar funding. The question is now popping up on forums and there was even a letter in the Age last week asking the question.

The problem is, David can't answer the question because despite repeated requests, there just isn't any information being shared on the progress of the application or the reason why it has taken four months to process.

I noticed this morning that a Facebook Group has been set up in support of the AFA's application. It's called, Victorian Government Snubs Non-Believers (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=152638125974&ref=mf). If you want to support the AFA's application for funding for the Convention, you might like to join too - and post a comment.

I don't think the Victorian Government understands just how much interest there is in this convention and how bad it will look for them if they appear to be making value judgments about the events they sponsor, rather than assessing them simply on the basis of their potential to help Victoria's economy.

If the decision is economic (as it should be), surely an atheist convention is just as 'deserving' as a religious convention, as both of them promote Victorian tourism and bring delegates into Melbourne.

I know I won't just be making the trip down from Queensland for the Convention - I'll be spending a few extra days in Victoria, sightseeing, shopping, using public transport, maybe hiring a car etc. Surely this is what the Government's investment is for - not to endorse (or reject) particular philosophical points of view?

What do you think?

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Unfortunately the government are quite immune to getting laughed at for making an arse out of themselves. They do it quite frequently. Take Stephen Conroy (Bogus filterus censorus) and his stupid country-wide censorship plan.

It is quite stupid that Parliament of the World Religions attract something but atheists don't even get shit from the Government here. But like I said even though it will make them look stupid they're used to getting laughed at unfortunately.

[Chrys Stevenson]

Let's remember that they haven't said 'no' yet. The question is not that they have refused funding (they haven't) but that they are taking so long to make a decision.

One would imagine that the modest amount of funding requested by the Foundation for such a large convention with such an impressive array of speakers, backed by a major international organization like the AAI (with a history of running successful conventions), and with the MCEC already booked -the decision should not require four months of contemplation.

My point is, at this stage, the Victorian government only appear either inefficient or indecisive. Their preparedness to make equitable decisions based on economics rather than religious prejudice is yet to be established.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Pretty much as I was saying: the government is a strange force... It is funny they say an immediate "Yes" to the religious organizations but either say "No" or (in this case) make a lengthy decision about saying "Yes" or "No" here.

We see this in our school system too. Takes nanoseconds for them to say "Yes" to a private religious school. Takes decades for them to say either "Yes" or "No" to public (supposed to be government owned) schools.

[Ramen]

Who are the relevant ministers we should be emailing?

[davo]

Basically, with the amount of people coming, there is going to be a massive amount of money coming into victoria, this is why these things get funded, as it stimulates the economy and is in the best interests of the communities in that regard.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

As Kristy said before: if the government don't fund it they'll become a laughing stock.

All because of missing an opportunity for an economy boost.

[Chrys Stevenson]

Who are the relevant ministers we should be emailing?

Probably better to email the Victorian Premier's Office - premier@dpc.vic.gov.au

I understand, at the direction of the Premier's office, the grant has been applied for through the Victorian Multicultural Commission. (No, it makes no sense to me either - but apparently that's where the grant application was directed to.)

[Chrys Stevenson]

Momentum on this issue is building:

PZ Myers Pharyngula (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/a_telling_silence.php)(the world's most popular science blog) - A telling silence.

Facebook Group (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=152638125974&ref=mf) - Victorian Government Snubs Non-Believers (currently at 83 members)

Author and academic, Russell Blackford's Metamagician and the Hellfire Club (http://metamagician3000.blogspot.com/) - Why no funding for the Global Atheist Convention?

Industrial Workers of the World (http://www.iww.org.au/node/1119) - Where is the funding for the Atheist Convention Melbourne 2010?

Jesus All About Lies (http://www.jesusallaboutlife.com/2009/10/14/where-is-the-funding-for-the-atheist-convention-melbourne-2010/) - Where is the funding for the Global Atheist Convention?

Newswire - India Media (http://indymedia.org.au/2009/10/14/where-is-the-funding-for-the-atheist-convention-melbourne-2010) - Where is the funding for the Global Atheist Convention?

Sean the Blogonaut (http://seantheblogonaut.com/2009/10/we-dont-want-your-ungodly-money/) - We don't want your ungodly money

A Drunken Madman (http://mycolleaguesareidiots.com/archive/2009/10/16/433.aspx) - Victorian Government drags feet on funding atheists, bends over backwards for religions

Atheist Bible Reading and Forum (http://atheistbibleforum.blogspot.com/search/label/atheist%20conference) - Where is the funding for the Atheist Convention Melbourne 2010

Philosophical Neuron (http://philosophicalneuron.blogspot.com/2009/10/atheists-are-citizens-too.html) - Atheists are citizens too

[Chrys Stevenson]

Some comments from PZ Myers' blog (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/a_telling_silence.php).

Posted by: allen | October 16, 2009 10:33 AM
James #4 - I think you make a good point but the government's actions give the appearance of mallice towards those of no religion. If the government is going to financially support people and groups with a religious message that the group claims is peaceful (by the way, i think it can be shown that many 'religious' messages are not peaceful but, rather, spread hate and discrimination), then they should offer the same support to people and groups with a peaceful non-religious message. To me this screams discrimination against people who don't believe in god. If government insists on discriminatory financial policy, then they should just stick to their direct jurisdiction and stay out of religion or the lack there of altogether, but I think that is an unrealistic goal, currently.
Does anyone know what department in the Australian government to contact? Maybe a few words from around the globe would help them see a new perspective.

Posted by: Rorschach | October 16, 2009 10:34 AM
... The fact that australian governments like to support religious occasions but struggle with supporting non-religious ones is of course something worth publicising and mentioning.

Posted by: geesuss.wordpress.com | October 16, 2009 11:48 AM
Theres no need to speculate over whether atheists are eligible for funding. We are, you can read the requirements for any group here (http://www.tourism.vic.gov.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=220&Itemid=2135)
The Convention meets the requirements for funding and yet we have not even received a reply letting us know why they are ignoring us.
That's it. As PZ stated.

More commentary from across the internet:

Indymedia (http://indymedia.org.au/2009/10/14/where-is-the-funding-for-the-atheist-convention-melbourne-2010)

Re: Where is the funding for the Atheist Convention ...
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri, 16/10/2009 - 10:16am.
Considering the basis of these fundings made for events, the only reason the government would not be putting in funding, would be based on a stance philosophically opposed to atheism and non-believers.

The funding is based on economics, on the fact of tourism and what it is bringing to the state. There will be thousands of atheists, freethinkers, non-believers and believers alike coming to melbourne for this, the government should not only be responding, they should be doing so [with] haste.

Facebook Group (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=152638125974)

It’s time our parliamentary representatives actually represented all citizens and supported the Global Atheist Convention. Alternatively, they could stop using tax-payers' dollars to subsidise religion. At the moment there is an unacceptable double standard.

Dave Fregon (Australia) wrote
at 9:32am yesterday
Nothing new with government treating those of faith with more priviledge and position than those without ...

Chrys Stevenson wrote
at 7:03am yesterday
... If one is funded and the other isn't, however, it begins to look as if the Victorian Government is not so much investing in tourism as promoting religion. That's not a good look, and all Victorians should be concerned if the Government is only funding conventions with messages it agrees with.

Sean the Blogonaut (http://seantheblogonaut.com/2009/10/we-dont-want-your-ungodly-money/)

So is it just a lack lustre bureaucracy, or religious bigotry?

A Drunken Madman
(http://mycolleaguesareidiots.com/archive/2009/10/16/433.aspx)
The AFA, not unexpectedly, has applied to the Victorian Government for funding assistance, and seeing as this event will be bringing a significant amount of dollars to Melbourne, some response was expected.

Nothing so far but the chirping of crickets ...

Update - Sunday, 18 October

I accept David's suggestion (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=2493&page=2)that concern about the Government's tardiness in approving funding for the Atheist Convention may be premature and we do all need to keep in mind that the Victorian Government has not refused the AFA's application. However, the delay is an issue of great concern to the atheist community which, unfortunately, is unlikely to be stemmed. News that the Convention has already sold 1000 tickets and, is therefore, an assured success in terms of attracting tourism to Victoria makes the lack of response even more puzzling. Further commentary continues to appear on the internet and is now beginning, inevitably, to trickle through to the media.

The Sunday Age, 18 October (http://www.theage.com.au/national/le...1017-h22f.html)

You got it wrong, reverend

THE Reverend Dr Max Champion (Letters, 11/10) made two significant errors in his "defence" of religion's privileged place in society.
(1) ''Atrocities committed by anti-Christian ideologies, such as communism, Nazism and fascism'': there is no logical progression from non-belief to violence. The existence of bad atheists (if Hitler was an atheist - not clear) does not mean their acts were intended to spread non-belief and not every murderer who happens to be religious is furthering religion through murder. September 11, the Spanish Inquisition, right-wing Christians who murder doctors who perform abortions - all examples of evil acts specifically undertaken to further a religious cause. There is no comparable atrocity to further atheism.
(2) ''Nihilistic forces'': what is so "nihilistic" about wanting equality for all? So $4.5 million for the Parliament of World Religions and none so far for the Global Atheist Convention - I know where government money should be going.
BRENDAN BARRATT, Armadale

You want it, you pay for it

IT WAS interesting that the unhealthy church-state alliance in Victoria and indeed Australia stood together as one in offering apologetics about discrimination based on faith (Letters, Max Champion and Rob Hulls, 11/10).
These two powerful groups cannot grasp the simple equation. If citizens pay taxes - and we all do to varying degrees - we should all be treated equally, at least by the state or those institutions the state financially supports. If religions insist on playing the discrimination game to suit some interpretation or other of the writings of ancient and ignorant nomadic tribesmen, then they must pay their own way for the privilege.
DAVID NICHOLLS, president, Atheist Foundation of Australia


These Letters to the Editor follow an earlier letter to The Age on 8 October:

“The Parliament of World Religions will receive $4.5 million from the taxpayer. Will the Atheist Foundation get its proportional $500,000? Somehow, I don’t think so.” Tony Dear, Forest Hill, Vic.

Also, today from popular atheist blogger, Sean the Blogonaut (http://seantheblogonaut.com/2009/10/global-atheist-convention-ticket-sales-hit-1000-in-first-three-weeks/):

"Word is that 1000 of the 2500 tickets available for the Global Atheist Convention to be held next March in Melbourne have sold. That’s 40% of tickets available, gone in three weeks – at this rate the conference will be fully booked out before Christmas.

So with the conference looking to be fully booked well ahead of schedule, the silence on funding from the Victorian government (eager to fund the Parliament of World religions) gets more telling by the minute."

I agree that this may just be a case of standard bureaucratic bungling, but the natives are getting very restless. I do hope that the Victorian Government sees fit to respond soon and nip this speculation in the bud as it appears to be on the verge of going viral.

Update, Monday 19 October

Criticism of Victorian Government continues on the internet.

From PZ Myers blog (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/10/a_telling_silence.php):

Posted by: Moshe Reuveni | October 17, 2009 5:15 PM
The Victoria government is happily sponsoring many major events, but experience shows these events have to qualify through certain criteria of theirs.
The first criteria is that the event needs to be a vote earner. That usually means that if you want money for your event, you need to make it a sporting event (e.g., the MotoGP taking place today).
The second criteria is that the event needs to be one that the powers that be can show off with before their mates. As in, bang on their chests and demonstrate how cool and powerful they are. Show off.
For example, they have paid millions in order to bring Tiger Woods to Victoria this year, and they keep on paying (and losing) tens of millions each year to bring the Formula 1 circus to town each year.
I regret to say our convention doesn't qualify with either criteria, therefore we should not expect a cent.

Posted by: Russell Blackford | October 17, 2009 8:12 PM
Moshe is probably correct, but if it turns out to be like that we need to make a fuss about it. Why, exactly, is it okay to throw public money at the Parliament of the World's religions but not at the Global Atheist Convention, which is not all that dissimilar in its projected size and in its ability to bring lots of people to Melbourne?

JAAL (http://www.jesusallaboutlife.com/2009/10/14/where-is-the-funding-for-the-atheist-convention-melbourne-2010/)

Warren -
I'm heading down to the convention from Qld, and looking forward to it. I'll be heading down with about 10 others from our atheist group.

This isn't about supporting atheism it's about supporting an event that will be bringing money into the state. However if support isn't given when it's given to other 'belief' sectors then it would certainly seem that the government has a bias, and an unconstitutional one. That would make for some great publicity. Perhaps a lead up bus campaign even?

[David Nicholls]

Folks,

I know many are getting jumpy about sponsorship from the Victorian Government, but we must remember that, at this stage, they have not refused our application. Even though we applied for assistance over three months ago, these kind of long delays are not unheard of in bureaucratic circles. It is true that it has been difficult to get answers to our inquiries, but it may well be that this is due to the normal slow process of bureaucracy rather than someone stonewalling our application. We must not jump to conclusions.

The decision before them is purely an economic one made easier at the moment by the tremendous interest translated into ticket purchases. We are not talking ideological opposition to Atheism by a secular government, as there is currently no evidence to support that.

The Global Atheist Convention is going to bring a large financial input into Victoria via hotels, food, hire cars, taxis, public transport, air travel, tourism and the Convention itself etc. The government is well aware that the word they wish to spread across the world is that Victoria is the place to be and not the place to be reviled because of petty prejudice.

I see by the posts here that there is angst spreading rapidly but I fear it is premature. I am confident that the Government will soon reply to our inquiries and set everybody's minds at rest that our application is being processed on the basis of its fulfillment of the criteria, and not being hindered by ideological bias.

When I hear something concrete, I will let everyone know.

Just be patient for a while longer.

Thanks

David

[Praxis]

Thanks for that David.

What about at the federal level though? Is it worth firing off an email or letter to Canberra about it?

[David Nicholls]

Hi Praxis,

The AFA has approached the Federal Government via Kevin Rudd’s office sometime after contacting the Victorian Govt. We have been informed the PM’s portfolio does not cover such conventions. I have therefore written to Julia Gillard to see if hers does.

Federal Government sponsorship is generally reserved for big things like football or Pope visits although the grapevine suggests they have given the Parliament of World’s Religions a couple of million dollars.

Replies to such requests generally take about six week (Or longer) and we are still within that time frame for Julia Gillard’s minders to respond.

Both the Federal and Victorian Government would not wish for another rejection of bus sign sagas in much larger form. I am certain that we can expect reason to prevail.

David

[Praxis]

We have been informed the PM’s portfolio does not cover such conventions.
Neat cop out ;)

I have therefore written to Julia Gillard to see if hers does.

Federal Government sponsorship is generally reserved for big things like football or Pope visits although the grapevine suggests they have given the Parliament of World’s Religions a couple of million dollars.

Replies to such requests generally take about six week (Or longer) and we are still within that time frame for Julia Gillard’s minders to respond.

Both the Federal and Victorian Government would not wish for another rejection of bus sign sagas in much larger form. I am certain that we can expect reason to prevail.

David
Let's hope so! I know you'll keep us informed of what's happening.

Cheers :)

[Chrys Stevenson]

See updates to internet commentary on Convention funding at the bottom of page 1 of this thread.

[M0381U5]

"Atheists have accused the Brumby Government of discriminating against them by refusing to fund the movement's global conference in Melbourne <http://www.atheistconvention.org.au/> , but giving $2 million to a religious conference."


http://www.theage.com.au/national/atheists-cross-as-religious-forum-secures-taxpayer-funding-20091126-jste.html#comments

So has the funding been officially rejected yet??? :confused:

[DanDare]

I just sent the following email to abc/compass:

The Parliament of World Religions gets $2.5 mill from federal and state government, but the World Atheist conference gets nothing at all?

http://www.theage.com.au/national/atheists-cross-as-religious-forum-secures-taxpayer-funding-20091126-jste.html

Time for compass to look at the state of the secular state, don't you think?

[Praxis]

@ DanDare - excellent thinking Sir! Let us know if you get a response.

I've contacted Hungry Beast, suggesting they might like to turn their collective sharp eyes on this one. I'll let everyone know if I get any response.

I also posted a letter in response to The Age online article but it hasn't appeared. I find it hard to believe there's only been three comments on it, too. How long do they wait to publish comments? Perhaps the mods have left for the day.

[AtheistVetStreetFighter]

I am so sorry your government is refusing Atheists equal treatment under the law............................................... ....... We had a similar problem in our nation every time a Pope comes here. Without paying a penny for Secret Service and Police protections, such males are treated as if visiting heads of state. .................................................. ........... While the Vatican is merely a criminal organization with some expensive real estate in Rome. Yet the current Nazi Pope is allowed veto power over United Nations distribution of condoms for disease and pregnancy prevention. .......................... Accordingly people are dying of HIV transmission easily prevented with condoms. I feel that an Atheist Convention could save lives if Australia joins a movement to expel the Vatican from the United Nations. ....................................... This would be in the best interests of all citizens and would only abate the undue influence of the papacy and Roman Catholicism. Scientology has been ruled a criminal activity, so is Banco Ambrosiano and the "Holy See." Best wishes towards obtaining equal funding from your government. .................................................. .......................... In the alternative that your goverment continues it's bigoted discrimination, I hope you find wealthy private donors to fund this fine project of convening Atheists from around the world.

[wardsie]

Wow Kristy you've done some research. Thank you very much.

[Albert]

Thanks Kristy. Today I sent this off to Brumby's office:

Dear Mr Brumby,

I request that you re-consider your Governments refusal to fund the Global Atheist Convention to be held in Melbourne in March 2010.

My understanding is that a religious convention is to be funded to the tune of $4.5 million: the Atheist Convention organizers requested $270,000 but have been rebuffed.
This is unfair and seems to pay heed to the loudest voices in the community rather than to the principle of equity.

Again please re-consider this matter: a change of heart will show many people that they too are an important part of the Australian Community.

[Chrys Stevenson]

Well said Albert - the more voices of protest, the better.

[AWarGuy]

Knowing our government they will probably dick around and stall for a long time.

[DanDare]

This is now getting international attention:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/11/an_australian_double_standard.php

and this one at the Richard Dawkins.net forum:

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=100898

[Praxis]

This is now getting international attention:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/11/an_australian_double_standard.php

and this one at the Richard Dawkins.net forum:

http://forum.richarddawkins.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=100898
Yes Dan, I have mentioned here that I started that post over at RDF (you did realise Aesthetic Atheist is me didn't you? ;) )

There are RDF'ers coming from Scotland and Canada to attend this event, as well as Kiwis and even Taswegians.

I really hope everyone writes/emails to the Premier, the papers, etc.

Cheers.

[Praxis]

Good on her. I congratulated her in my online letter to The Age last week, which never got published (they allowed only three comments through :confused: ).

Ms Hartland is a christian, I understand.

My email to Mr Brumby will go off today.

I really hope the principal point is not lost, ie. it's not about money at all, although this is what WPoR and ACL supporters will hook into.

Even if we don't obtain any funding in the end, I hope the government are sufficiently on notice.

It will also be interesting to see if the NSW govt. provide any funding for James Randi's TAM in November 2010. If they are as slow as the Victorians in providing responses, I suggest the organisers start requesting now. TAM will similarly bring people from all over Australia and overseas. Let's hope NSW have a clearer idea of things than our lot down here do.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

It will also be interesting to see if the NSW govt. provide any funding for James Randi's TAM in November 2010. If they are as slow as the Victorians in providing responses, I suggest the organisers start requesting now. TAM will similarly bring people from all over Australia and overseas. Let's hope NSW have a clearer idea of things than our lot down here do.In NSW it can take one hell of a long time for things to come up. So personally being a New South Welshreptile myself I will not let my guard down. But surprises can pop up every once in a while.

[Praxis]

Here's my letter to the Premier, emailed this morning:

Dear Mr Premier,

I am a Victorian (a Melbourne girl, born and bred) who will be attending the Rise of Atheism Convention, to be held in March 2010, here in Melbourne.

I was greatly disappointed to learn of the government’s refusal (on all three levels) to provide some funding for the convention, ostensibly on the basis of not meeting the correct criteria - or was it that it was now too late? Or did the application go to the wrong area? There were many excuses and not a little stalling and duck-shoving so it’s a bit hard to determine what the real reason was and I’m trying not to be cynical about it. However, the fact that the Parliament of World Religions conference, which comes to Melbourne this week, has been (more than) generously funded by both the Federal and State governments (well into the millions, as I’m sure you are well aware), whilst our convention has been ignored, seems strange, to say the least.

The Rise of Atheism Convention is bringing visitors to our city from all over Victoria, interstate and internationally. I personally know of people coming from Scotland, Canada and New Zealand to attend. International attendees will be staying for weeks, both before and after the convention. And they’ll all be staying here in Melbourne.

There will be over 2000 people attending to hear some of the brightest minds in the world speak, from the fields of academia, science, philosophy (Prof. Richard Dawkins, Peter Singer, PZ Myers, AC Grayling, Phillip Adams, amongst others), speakers who are presenting without fee, making their own way here. Most attendees will be staying in town (I live here and even I've booked accommodation at Southbank for two nights), they’ll be shopping, doing tourism things, in short, spending money in our city. Isn't this what it’s all about? Promoting our city? Attracting tourists here - tourists who will spend money to benefit Melbourne? Well if that is the case, then our convention more than fulfills that criteria and it certainly meets the definition of a major event. So why has it been refused funding?

As it is, the convention is being funded by ticket sales and Australian Atheist Foundation volunteers. A modest amount of government funding would assist in promoting the event even further.

I sincerely hope the government can re-think the issue and provide some funding for our convention. Otherwise, it simply looks like an ideological decision and that the money and presence of religious adherents is somehow worth more than those of us who hold a non-belief world view and who value science and reason over superstition.

Government (and not just the Victorian Labor party) would do well to start tuning in and realising that there are a lot more secular freethinkers out there than they realise. We’re parents, business owners, employees - taxpayers. We pay attention to what is going on. And we vote. It is high time religion stopped being treated as something privileged. The first government who has the testicular fortitude to abolish tax exemptions for religious groups will be the one who is swept into power on an overwhelming majority. You can be sure of it.

Anyway, thanks for reading. I very much hope the decision can be overturned and some funding provided. We’re not asking for anything like the amount the PoWR apparently need to help get their message across, just a modest amount, but the implications of the action would speak volumes to thousands of people.

I leave it in your hands, Mr Premier.

I veered a little off track but I think I made my point. Anyway, it's one more voice to add :)

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I decided to keep mine short and simple so I don't stuff it up a lot.Dear Premier,

I am writing this as an expression of disappointment in the Victorian Government's decision to reject $270 000 for the Global Atheist Convention that is arranged in 2010 after a long period of waiting for an answer, but quickly approving $4 500 000 000 for a religious convention that is also to be scheduled in Australia for next year.

This sort of discrimination at a government level is unacceptable. The Victorian Government has just rejected an opportunity to show people that Australia really is a free country. What has been done is clearly a discriminatory action by the government.

The Victorian Government claims that the Global Atheist Convention did not meet the criteria for eligibility of government funding. Exactly what criteria are not met by the convention?

As an Australian citizen myself, I find it rather hypocritical for a government that makes claims on how Australia encourages diversity and respect for each other does not show such respect for everybody and favours people based on their beliefs, which is clearly seen here by such activity.The shorter my emails are the less mistakes they are likely to have.

[Praxis]

Well done croc. Remember though, that $2.5 million has come from the Federal government and a further $500,000 from the Victorian Government (?via Melbourne City Council - perhaps someone could clarify please).

Otherwise, love your work :)

Edit to add: I could be wrong here - is it the Vic govt or the feds who have given the $2.5 million? I seem to be reading mixed things. Clarification needed please.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Well done croc. Remember though, that $2.5 million has come from the Federal government and a further $500,000 from the Victorian Government (?via Melbourne City Council - perhaps someone could clarify please).

Otherwise, love your work :)Thanks for the encouragement. :)

Edit to add: I could be wrong here - is it the Vic govt or the feds who have given the $2.5 million? I seem to be reading mixed things. Clarification needed please.MILLION?! Oh shit... I accidentally put too many zeros. :( :o :(

Just sent a correction:I apologise for my last email which stated that the government funded a religious conference for $4 500 000 000 when I should have said $4 500 000 instead. In any case still I am disappointed as this is over 16 times the amount that was asked of for the Global Atheist Convention 2010 and even then it has been rejected.

[Praxis]

Yay! I got published in the comments section of The Age online.

Lots of support there David :)

[Homosapien]

Here's my letter to the Premier, emailed this morning:

Dear Mr Premier,

I am a Victorian (a Melbourne girl, born and bred) who will be attending the Rise of Atheism Convention, to be held in March 2010, here in Melbourne.

I was greatly disappointed to learn of the government’s refusal (on all three levels) to provide some funding for the convention, ostensibly on the basis of not meeting the correct criteria - or was it that it was now too late? Or did the application go to the wrong area? There were many excuses and not a little stalling and duck-shoving so it’s a bit hard to determine what the real reason was and I’m trying not to be cynical about it. However, the fact that the Parliament of World Religions conference, which comes to Melbourne this week, has been (more than) generously funded by both the Federal and State governments (well into the millions, as I’m sure you are well aware), whilst our convention has been ignored, seems strange, to say the least.

The Rise of Atheism Convention is bringing visitors to our city from all over Victoria, interstate and internationally. I personally know of people coming from Scotland, Canada and New Zealand to attend. International attendees will be staying for weeks, both before and after the convention. And they’ll all be staying here in Melbourne.

There will be over 2000 people attending to hear some of the brightest minds in the world speak, from the fields of academia, science, philosophy (Prof. Richard Dawkins, Peter Singer, PZ Myers, AC Grayling, Phillip Adams, amongst others), speakers who are presenting without fee, making their own way here. Most attendees will be staying in town (I live here and even I've booked accommodation at Southbank for two nights), they’ll be shopping, doing tourism things, in short, spending money in our city. Isn't this what it’s all about? Promoting our city? Attracting tourists here - tourists who will spend money to benefit Melbourne? Well if that is the case, then our convention more than fulfills that criteria and it certainly meets the definition of a major event. So why has it been refused funding?

As it is, the convention is being funded by ticket sales and Australian Atheist Foundation volunteers. A modest amount of government funding would assist in promoting the event even further.

I sincerely hope the government can re-think the issue and provide some funding for our convention. Otherwise, it simply looks like an ideological decision and that the money and presence of religious adherents is somehow worth more than those of us who hold a non-belief world view and who value science and reason over superstition.

Government (and not just the Victorian Labor party) would do well to start tuning in and realising that there are a lot more secular freethinkers out there than they realise. We’re parents, business owners, employees - taxpayers. We pay attention to what is going on. And we vote. It is high time religion stopped being treated as something privileged. The first government who has the testicular fortitude to abolish tax exemptions for religious groups will be the one who is swept into power on an overwhelming majority. You can be sure of it.

Anyway, thanks for reading. I very much hope the decision can be overturned and some funding provided. We’re not asking for anything like the amount the PoWR apparently need to help get their message across, just a modest amount, but the implications of the action would speak volumes to thousands of people.

I leave it in your hands, Mr Premier.

I veered a little off track but I think I made my point. Anyway, it's one more voice to add :)


Excellent letter. Well said!
Cheers :) :)

[Praxis]

Why thank you very much, Homosapien - I dashed it off at about 6.30 am this morning. My partner thinks I just wanted an excuse to use "testicular fortitude" in an official correspondence. I have to concede he has a bit of a point :D

[Loki]

$4.5 million into 5000 bums on seats works out at $900 per bum. What are they going to do with this, this amount would completely cover my attendance at the GAC including airfares from sunny Queensland.

[zebba]

Just joined the forum folks. Some of you may recognise the handle from various blogs around the place. I have a job that leaves me twiddling my thumbs at the keyboard an awful lot!

I have a question: What taxes will the AFA being liable to pay as part of this conference?

My thoughts are, if the AFA or whoever is organising this will also have to pay tax on proceeds of the conference, then the Parliament of World Religions could actually be receiving even more money from the government then the $4.5m being quoted... I don't know how all this stuff works though, so clarification from someone who does would be great

Pretty angry about all this to tell the truth. I've always felt like a half-citizen because of my atheism, but when stuff like this happens it really reinforces those feelings.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

@Loki: Free communion black American Express cards?

[Loki]

Government funded guilt, we really are the welfare state

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

@Everybody who has written letters to the premier: Have any of you guys got responses yet? I haven't got mine yet. But I understand that some of you wrote a long time ago so I'm wondering if you have got a response yet.

[DanDare]

@Everybody who has written letters to the premier: Have any of you guys got responses yet? I haven't got mine yet. But I understand that some of you wrote a long time ago so I'm wondering if you have got a response yet.
Not a word.

[Praxis]

I certainly wouldn't expect a response to an email I sent only yesterday - from anyone, let alone the Premier of the state :)

I won't be surprised if I get no response or perhaps a form letter response (a la Stephen "It's Not Censorship, It's a Filter ... of everything you might like to look at on the Interwebz" Conroy".

I don't care if I get no response. I care about it being read though. I just hope responses weren't immediately consigned to the Deleted Items folder. But I guess we'll probably never know.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Well if worse comes to worse at least there are some letters written to the Premier that are also posted on the forum so if they get ignored by the Premier we have close to the originals. Even though I don't expect a response to an email sent 1 day ago there are many who posted at least a few days/weeks ago.

[Homosapien]

@Everybody who has written letters to the premier: Have any of you guys got responses yet? I haven't got mine yet. But I understand that some of you wrote a long time ago so I'm wondering if you have got a response yet.

No response regarding my letter yet. Though admittedly most of my questions were retorical, with the main component being a request for change rather than a question.

I'm not expecting a reply.

Cheers. :)

PS: Let us know if you do eventually get one.

[Atrax Robustus]

I wonder what the committee members of the Parliament of World Relgions opinions would be if similar correspondence was to arrive in their respective inbox accounts?

They appear to be open to communication if this page (http://www.parliamentofreligions.org/index.cfm?n=1&sn=5) is current and noting some the aims and objectives of the Parliament, there are (albeit with very minor amendment) a number of objectives (http://www.parliamentofreligions.org/index.cfm?n=1&sn=1) they share with non-theists:

The vision of the Council for a Parliament of the World's Religions is of a just, peaceful and sustainable world in which:

•[Religious and spiritual c] Communities live in harmony and contribute to a better world from their riches of wisdom and compassion
•Religious and cultural fears and hatreds are replaced with understanding and respect
•People everywhere come to know and care for their neighbors
•The richness of human [and religious] diversity is woven into the fabric of communal, civil, societal and global life
•The world's most powerful and influential institutions move beyond narrow self-interest to realize common good
•The Earth and all life are cherished, protected, healed and restored
•All people commit to living out their highest values and aspirations.

Surely they must be similarly concerned that non-theists are apparently being denied the opportunity to achieve very similar aims.

[Loki]

I take it that by

The world's most powerful and influential institutions

they don't mean their good selves

[kencooke]

The Commonwealth government provided funding of $2 million through the Department of Immigration and Citizenship.

The department website outlines the rationale behind the funding for the Parliament of World Religions 2009 HERE (http://www.immi.gov.au/about/reports/annual/2008-09/html/outcome2/administered2-12.htm)

It says...
The Parliament of the World’s Religions (PWR) will contribute to better public understanding of, and support for, social cohesion and religious diversity.
and...
More than 500 activities, including a keynote address, seminars, conferences, debates, performances, concerts and exhibitions, will be held. Between 6000–8000 participants are expected to attend the Melbourne event.

And then it lists the "Key Performance Indicators" for the event

[Praxis]

In my email:

Dear Correspondent

THE RISE OF ATHEISM CONVENTION MARCH 2010

Thank you for your recent email to the Premier regarding ‘The Rise of
Atheism’ convention in March 2010. The Premier has asked that I respond on his behalf.


Victoria’s diversity has made the community dynamic, open and inclusive.
The Victorian Government acknowledges the importance of events such as ‘The Rise of Atheism’ convention, and recognises the valuable
contribution that these events make to community discourse.

I note your views regarding the Victorian Government’s decision not to
provide funding for the ‘The Rise of Atheism’ convention in March 2010.
The Victorian Government is approached for funding by a large number of groups each year and is unable to satisfy all requests.

I wish the participants and organisers well for a successful event.


Yours sincerely


DAN O'BRIEN
Chief of Staff

This Department, in accordance with the Public Records Act 1973, will
collect and store the information you have provided. Should you have any queries regarding access to your personal information held by this
Department please contact the Privacy Officer, Department of Premier & Cabinet, Level 2, 1 Treasury Place, East Melbourne 3002.
*cough* bullshit *cough* :rolleyes:

Apart from anything, it's a bloody form letter with [insert event name here].

[Homosapien]

I just got mine as well!!!! Yippeee!!?? :rolleyes:

WOW they are good?!?! Haaaa haaaaa! :rolleyes:


Dear Correspondent

THE RISE OF ATHEISM CONVENTION MARCH 2010


Thank you for your recent email to the Premier regarding ‘The Rise of
Atheism’ convention in March 2010. The Premier has asked that I respond
on his behalf.


Victoria’s diversity has made the community dynamic, open and inclusive.
The Victorian Government acknowledges the importance of events such as
‘The Rise of Atheism’ convention, and recognises the valuable
contribution that these events make to community discourse.


I note your views regarding the Victorian Government’s decision not to
provide funding for the ‘The Rise of Atheism’ convention in March 2010.
The Victorian Government is approached for funding by a large number of
groups each year and is unable to satisfy all requests.


I wish the participants and organisers well for a successful event.


Yours sincerely




DAN O'BRIEN
Chief of Staff


This Department, in accordance with the Public Records Act 1973, will
collect and store the information you have provided. Should you have any
queries regarding access to your personal information held by this
Department please contact the Privacy Officer, Department of Premier &
Cabinet, Level 2, 1 Treasury Place, East Melbourne 3002.

And they didn't even change one word! :p

[Praxis]

wahahahaha!!! They must've sent out of a bunch of 'em today.

Nothing like the personal approach eh?!

[Homosapien]

Yeeeppp. :rolleyes:

[Praxis]

I just ... don't feel so special now is all ...

*sniff*

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Sorry for bumping this thread folks, but I got an email response finally and thought that this would be an appropriate place to mention it:Dear Correspondent

THE RISE OF ATHEISM CONVENTION MARCH 2010


Thank you for your recent email to the Premier regarding ‘The Rise of
Atheism’ convention in March 2010. The Premier has asked that I respond
on his behalf.


Victoria’s diversity has made the community dynamic, open and inclusive.
The Victorian Government acknowledges the importance of events such as
‘The Rise of Atheism’ convention, and recognises the valuable
contribution that these events make to community discourse.


I note your views regarding the Victorian Government’s decision not to
provide funding for the ‘The Rise of Atheism’ convention in March 2010.
The Victorian Government is approached for funding by a large number of
groups each year and is unable to satisfy all requests.


I wish the participants and organisers well for a successful event.


Yours sincerely




DAN O'BRIEN
Chief of Staff


This Department, in accordance with the Public Records Act 1973, will
collect and store the information you have provided. Should you have any
queries regarding access to your personal information held by this
Department please contact the Privacy Officer, Department of Premier &
Cabinet, Level 2, 1 Treasury Place, East Melbourne 3002.So even though the World Parliament got it, the Atheist Convention was singled out because the Victorian Government were "unable to satisfy all requests" eh?

[Chrys Stevenson]

Sorry for bumping this thread folks, but I got an email response finally and thought that this would be an appropriate place to mention it:So even though the World Parliament got it, the Atheist Convention was singled out because the Victorian Government were "unable to satisfy all requests" eh?

I got the same letter in the post today. Pathetic.

[Praxis]

Well done for resurrecting the thread Croc - I got one of those emails today and so did Homosapien - I started a thread about it but I might merge it with this one I think.

Form letters :rolleyes:

[Chrys Stevenson]

I got one too.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

@Chrys* + @Praxis: You mean... you guys got the SAME LETTER with the SAME CONTENT in it?! Well at least the politicians have figured out how to use a bloody mail merge.
*Was about to put "Kristy" there since I process the avatars before the usernames in my brain!

[Praxis]

I've merged the thread so we can all huddle round our little form letters together :)

[Chrys Stevenson]

Perhaps we should formulate our own standard letter and reply en masse.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I doubt they even read the goddamn letters! They probably have some autonomous system which flags the words "fund*" and "atheist*convention" and uses some strange REGEX match to determine the standard mass mail that goes out!

Of course, the REGEX courtesy of the IT department who probably hates online censorship blah blah but doesn't want to mention it at the risk of getting fired.

[wardsie]

Yes I received one too. My response.
Dear Mr O'Brien,
There are several points which I wish to make in response to your email below.

Firstly, I don't have a record of when I sent you the email regarding funding for The Rise of Atheism Convention, but I do know it wasn't recently. It was, I believe, sometime last year.
Secondly, although you state that the Victorian Government acknowledges the importance of events such as ours it clearly believes that it is not as important as religious events. Or, at least, not as important to the Victorian Government.
Thirdly, this belated response has been one of the weakest, most "fobbing-off" replies to a hugely important request I have have received.
Fourthly, your amateurish copying and pasting from a word processing document doesn't suit HTML mail.

[Homosapien]

I recieved this letter in the mail, in response to my email I had sent directly to the Prime Minister back in November (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=2899&page=3), which was also the same one I had sent to the Premier of Victoria.

This was their response:

Dear Mr XXXX

Thankyou for your letter of 27 November 2009 to the Prime Minister regarding religious and
non-religious community groups. I have been asked to reply on the Prime Minister's behalf.

Australia is home to a diversity of faiths, united by tolerance, mutual respect and a
commitment to democratic traditions. The Prime Minister believes strongly in the rights of
all Australians to believe in and to practice their faith or have no faith.

The Government is not considering an independent inquiry into the Church of Scientology.
As the Prime Minister indicated in the media, Scientology is recognised as a religion in
Australia - a fact established by the High Court decision in the Scientology case, The Church
of the New Faith v. Commissioner of Pay-roll Tax (Vic) [1983] HCA 40. Should the Senate
conduct an inquiry into the application of certain Commonwealth laws to the Church of
Scientology, the Australian Government may consider the resulting report.

I appreciate you taking time to write to the Prime Minister on this issue.


Yours sincerely


Peter Rush
Assistant Secretary
Awards and Culture Branch

23 February 2010


I agree. Tolerance and respect in the community is extremely important.

So . . , where is the tolerance from the churches on say gay rights issues, abortion, and many other issues they have an intolerance to. Is he and our government implying that atheists are intolerant to other people's beliefs and faiths? Is he and our government also then against the many intolerances by religions against others such as women, gays, etc? :confused: Am I reading too much between the lines? :o

Maybe I need to respond back for further clarification. I'm confused. :confused:

[Lord Blackadder]

It really helps if you ask odd questions that a form letter will not cover, and make sure you enquire about some stuff that crosses portfolios too.

Local members, opposition spokespeople, etc are nice to write to. You may still get nothing, but at least there will be some exercise gained.

Right on the money, Mr. Black. As someone who works for The Guvmint, we love letters that can be answered with a bog-standard reply - less work, you know...

If you are going to write in, make sure it is something that cannot be answered with a form letter in return - it keeps us public servants on our toes! :D