Attention pro-life wannabes

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I'm fed up with all this "pro-life" gibberish. You are "pro-life" but you don't consider other peoples' lives. Wow! Now that's what I call a contradiction.

Posers who claim to be "pro-life" often say: You want to eliminate abortion but don't consider the life of the woman that is pregnant and not consider that her life may be in danger and the pregnancy could destroy her life. It could also destroy the baby's life since it will live in ruin when it realizes it was unwanted by their parents. You are against euthanasia but don't consider the life of the person who requires it who is suffering. You claim people who muck up other peoples' lives are not "true Christians" or "true Muslims" or "True Metacholowombarbecunonionomglolwtfbbquenians" or whatever but you enjoy forcing your stupid rules and beliefs on others and make their lives miserable
Now this is what real pro-life is all about: Abortion should be allowed. Every time an abortion is performed a woman's life is saved. The baby-to-be's life is insignificant at this stage due to the fact that it hasn't lived a very long time in this world. In fact it hasn't even been exposed to the real world. You are also saving the baby's life from harm and agony too I reckon. Euthanasia should also be allowed. It saves the lives of people who are in a poor state of mind. It can save a person's life from agony and distress. Don't muck around with other people's lives and impose your beliefs on them. I think religion should be exterminated completely as it has bollocksed our society and species as a whole. People's lives should be saved by removing any religious restrictions and requirements from society and making it secular and more free. People should have a choice on what they can do with their life. Not their family or the government.There's a lesson to learn from this thread. Pro-life means saving significant lives. It does not mean fucking up other peoples' lives and destroying them by enforcing your rules and beliefs.

[davo]

you know a certain someone comes out of banning in the next couple of days.

Here's to another massive thread! ;)

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

If this thread ends up becomming another 500+ post monster and ends up being closed then l will know why. ;)

[Twizzle]

Interesting how a huge number of 'pro-life' people support the death penalty...:rolleyes:

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

The death penalty is supported by those posers for stupid and small things like looking at porn or naked people or even saying the wrong thing or looking at them funny.

[Mister Pervert]

dJcebIEOkhY

Bill Hicks RAWKS!

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

sFBOQzSk14c&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000

[Mister Pervert]

"You're not a human until you're in my phone book." - Bill Hicks

[atheist_angel]

That's quite a nice rant you've got there, Crocky! I love a good rant.

If more people would rant, we could Wake The World!

I would like to think so, anyway.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

You should try it some time. Do you good.

[atheist_angel]

You should try it some time. Do you good.
The abortion or the rant? ;)

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

The abortion or the rant? ;)The abortion. Then you can rant about the abortion.

[Slothhead]

It is probably worth mentioning though, that there are a number of pro-lifers, that arent religious. Well probably best to qualify that with a semi-pro-lifer. Certain clauses applicable.

[atheist_angel]

If this thread ends up becomming another 500+ post monster and ends up being closed then l will know why. ;)Let me guess; a\the nonreligious prolifer(s).

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Let me guess; a\the nonreligious prolifer(s).That of the Life-Starts-At-Conception-You-Bloody-Bastard-And-If-You-Do-Not-Shut-Up-I-Will-Kick-Your-Arse type...

[atheist_angel]

"You're not a human until you're in my phone book." - Bill Hicks
http://webpages.charter.net/micah/repjesus65.gif
"Suffer the little embryos to come unto me (http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2005/05/suffer-little-embryos-to-come-unto-me.html)"
(Posted by 'Gen. JC Christian')

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/sni/lowres/snin92l.jpg

[peterthames]

Forget the religious parts of this, who in their right mind could support this murder?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_W75zh1j2I&feature=PlayList&p=647F2BB74EB338B7&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=24

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Welcome back.

[peterthames]

Welcome back.

Yeh, I was banned for speaking and giving opinion, so much for freedom of speech on this board and moderator mood.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Well by that interpretation we should ban all users ;)At the risk of being labelled immoral close-minded devil worshippers. No different to our current label of course. ;)

[peterthames]

I gota go out now, just have a look at that vid and tell me what you think, I was haunted.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

In the beginning God created a fine topic for a fresh 500+ post monster which may end up being closed.

[Seamus]

Yeh, I was banned for speaking and giving opinion, so much for freedom of speech on this board and moderator mood.


Oh please.

Mate this a privately owned internet forum,it ain't a democracy. There are no rights,only privileges. The owners set the rules arbitrarily.

Generally speaking,this and other atheist forums are far more accepting and tolerant of different views than any Christian forum I've visited. Muslim forums are generally just plain scary.

I'd be a hypocrite to say 'welcome back', so I won't. If it were my decision, you would have been permanently banned ages ago, for being an annoying and willfully ignorant twit. (no offence)

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Even though I am not the administrator of this forum I am setting up another forum for someone else.Oh please.

Mate this a privately owned internet forum,it ain't a democracy. There are no rights,only privileges. The owners set the rules arbitrarily.+1Generally speaking,this and other atheist forums are far more accepting and tolerant of different views than any Christian forum I've visited. Muslim forums are generally just plain scary.+1I'd be a hypocrite to say 'welcome back', so I won't. If it were my decision, you would have been permanently banned ages ago, for being an annoying and willfully ignorant twit. (no offence)+0.5 because I have better ideas. ;) Note too that strictly speaking I would use permanent bans as a last resort as it can be quite tough maintaining the list of IP adresses and what not. Especially if the individual in question uses a dynamic IP adress and/or uses some sort of IP address anonymization like Tor to go through that. Even email addresses can be a tough one to pick out. Personally I would either place him on global ignore or develop a mod for the forum that replaces every word in his post with "blah" or something. Only he could see the original post but everyone else would get garbage.

[SchizoDeluxe]

I'll pass this onto George :D

HXviTQZQZxM

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I'll pass this onto George :DExcellent idea.

[peterthames]

I'll pass this onto George :D

Is that because it is to much a truth to handle?
It is not nice to know that type of thing goes on in our society,
premeditated slaughter, I saw that vid for the first time the other day and I'm discussed it is allowed to happen.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Discussed [sic] that what is allowed to happen? Abortion is not allowed to happen in any case.

Where is abortion allowed to happen anyway?

[wolty]

Here we go again.:(

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

That's exactly what I'm thinking. :p

[robertkd]

Is that because it is to much a truth to handle?
It is not nice to know that type of thing goes on in our society,
premeditated slaughter, I saw that vid for the first time the other day and I'm discussed it is allowed to happen.


Seriously get over it and stop trying to put the big emotional string pull, "look how terrible this is" watch man pull baby from box covered in black cloth for dramatic effect, drum roll please. Just deal with it that this may be an option for some people and these people have to make up their own mind. You do not have to participate in it yourself. I think you just have to accept that YOU are not the moral representative of the of every other person in the world.

Remember you are not the boss of other people stop forcing your moral judgement on them it is between them and it is their choice based on their situation.

[wolty]

@robertkd. Agreed. Judging people with an allover opinion is quite wrong. Forcing their judgement ( for that is all it is ) on other people is quite reprehensible and should be discouraged by all thinking, rational people. Having an opinion is ok, but that is all it is. An opinion that is formed from that person is based on personal experience, upbringing and education, clouded by bias and prejudice.
I actually find it quite disgusting that other people think they can believe they know more, know exactly what people are thinking or feeling, or think they know how people live their lives.

[robertkd]

@robertkd. Agreed. Judging people with an allover opinion is quite wrong. Forcing their judgement ( for that is all it is ) on other people is quite reprehensible and should be discourage by all thinking, rational people. Having an opinion is ok, but that is all it is. An opinion that is formed from that person is based on personal experience and education, clouded by bias and prejudice.
I actually find it quite disgusting that other people think they can believe they know more, know exactly what people are thinking or feeling, or think they know how people live their lives.

Interesting and yes I agree I only let fly with one barrel so quickly (my partner want dinner :eek:) I actually cut this out of the previous post.

<snip>
The biggest problem is, people think that just because they believe they have some divine god that they somehow have a right to impose that on others. You might find it weird that I personally think abortion is an absolute last option, however I would never force that on anyone not even my children, in fact I support Pro Choice you see It's not for me to impose my position on other people, in the same way as I'll tell you or anyone else to feck off if you try to impose you morality on me,..
<end snip>

I'll be back,...

[peterthames]

So next you will be saying it is ok to give birth to the unwanted child then put him/her in a bucket of water to end their life, it is only seconds away from the partial birth abortion.

[wolty]

So next you will be saying it is ok to give birth to the unwanted child then put him/her in a bucket of water to end their life, it is only seconds away from the partial birth abortion.

Nope, that is the result you get by following your ideas of other people and how they live their lives. Shame on you for postulating your judgement and ideology on others. They need your help and support, not to be told how you think they are wrong.

Rant off. Time for bed.

[atheist_angel]

Now this is what real pro-life is all about:


Don't muck around with other people's lives and impose your beliefs on them. I think religion should be exterminated completely as it has bollocksed our society and species as a whole. People's lives should be saved by removing any religious restrictions and requirements from society and making it secular and more free. People should have a choice on what they can do with their life. Not their family or the government.

There's a lesson to learn from this thread. Pro-life means saving significant lives. It does not mean fucking up other peoples' lives and destroying them by enforcing your rules and beliefs.I second that! Now... how do we pull it off?

[peterthames]

Get it through your head, Peter. Everybody draws lines where they draw lines. Your evangelist-like appeals to emotion do not support your case: they make you look like a fool.

I drew a line before and was ridiculed as usual, what now it is ok to draw it at birth, I'm not trying to appeal to emotion, just the injustice I see happening to the child, the same I would when I see a parent beat a child to within an inch of their lives, which you see in the papers/tv etc, if that makes me look like a fool then so be it, I am a fool.

[Fearless]

Is that because it is to much a truth to handle
Not if you understood the context. Or is it because as soon as you log in you have your blinkers on? SchizoDeluxe if I am correct was making a point that George has the take on it, maybe it is actually you who can't handle the truth... not that you will admit it of course.

It is not nice to know that type of thing goes on in our society, premeditated slaughter, I saw that vid for the first time the other day and I'm discussed it is allowed to happen.
Step forward and get your drama queen award. Why don't you work with abused children to see first hand what happens to 'unwanted' children or otherwise poorly classed 'mistakes'. I read stories in my time reading case files that would make your stomach turn. No stork flies down and carries the unwanted babies to happy nuclear families after they are born. Many probably end up wishing they weren't born... or should they leave them on the doorstep of a nunnery wrapped in a blanket placed in a basket?

I am discussed at your obvious lack of understanding and misguided compassion.

[Stueee86]

the same I would when I see a parent beat a child to within an inch of their lives,.

Do you think if abortions were not available there would be more, or less people being born into violent situations?

[peterthames]

Do you think if abortions were not available there would be more, or less people being born into violent situations?

It is likely there would be more, but I don't see that as the reason, violent situations can arise because of the stress of having a baby in a household that was not expected,(that is the stress not expected) drugs and alcohol inflame the situation, also handed down bad parenting and previous abuse are not helpful.

[robertkd]

So next you will be saying it is ok to give birth to the unwanted child then put him/her in a bucket of water to end their life, it is only seconds away from the partial birth abortion.

Try not to let your emotions run away, you referenced an emotional and contrived video, I don't think the video said anywhere the woman was in labour this was a procedure that "could be practised" under certain circumstances and then the choice should always be that of the people involved not yours not mine but theirs and lets move on.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

xos2MnVxe-c&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Instead, it's like the layout of Paris: every avenue leads back to the sanctity of blastocysts.You should go to Surat (India) some time. The signboards literally lead you around in circles. And the only difference between a chicken hotdog and chicken hamburger is the shape. Not to mention the sign saying "THANK YOU FOR VISITING SURAT, THE CITY OF THE FUTURE" (or something like that) is positioned right in the vicinity of a bunch of slum huts and garbage and poor people.

[peterthames]

Shame on you for postulating your judgement and ideology on others. They need your help and support, not to be told how you think they are wrong.

Wrong! People postulate and judge and ideology on others and say they are wrong all the time, (Mr Black is good at it too) even you and me as Atheist's postulate and judge religious folk for their belief, I and you would do it to the kids who tag the neighbourhood if we caught them at it, any wrong doing that we don't believe in, we all do it.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

@peterthames: I propose a debate. I was thinking of a topic similar to To abort or not to abort: that's the question or similar.

If you agree I can ask Protium to open up a thread in the debate forum for you and I to talk as reasonable members of society about this topic.

Also I think given that we are both atheists we already eliminate the biggest portion of garbage from debate already. ;)

[peterthames]

@peterthames: I propose a debate. I was thinking of a topic similar to To abort or not to abort: that's the question or similar.

If you agree I can ask Protium to open up a thread in the debate forum for you and I to talk as reasonable members of society about this topic.

Also I think given that we are both atheists we already eliminate the biggest portion of garbage from debate already. ;)

No thanks it will only be a repeat of most of my previous posts and we don't want to bore people with that do we.

[peterthames]

@Peterthames: if I have asked you any questions that you couldn't answer, I am sorry.

If you can provide examples of me doing the "postulate and judge and ideology on others and say they are wrong all the time" as you so quaintly (and inarticulately) put it, then do so. Of course, I will have to be doing it all the time for your slur to be anywhere close to accurate, but I'll let you off with three proven instances.

Otherwise I will have to say you are merely kicking up dust because you are cornered and have no argument.

Ok perhaps I should not have said "all the time" but you know what I mean I think, surly there are times when you have seen bad behaviour or acts and you oppose that, so that is what I mean, you would then postulate and judge the said behaviour/acts, as with me you seem to oppose all I say about the abortion debate, and your entitled of coarse. and by the way I am never cornered and I will always have an argument.

[Fearless]

...and by the way I am never cornered and I will always have an argument.
You're admitting you are argumentative?

:rolleyes:

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

No thanks it will only be a repeat of most of my previous posts and we don't want to bore people with that do we.Ah but it will be one on one this time. Basically how it works:

1. Someone starts the debate with a bunch of arguments for a particular subject
2. Another someone makes a rebuttal with arguments against that subject

And so on for around 6 posts each.

Of course your previous posts were things like "Life begins at conception" or "Abortion is murder" etcetera. I was thinking perhaps there are arguments you may have that support it. That's what the debate is all about. :)

If you still don't want to go ahead though I'm not forcing you. Just thinking it may be easier to sort this mess out that's all. :)

[peterthames]

You're admitting you are argumentative?

:rolleyes:

I can be if I feel strongly enough on a subject. Other people are too.

[peterthames]

If you still don't want to go ahead though I'm not forcing you. Just thinking it may be easier to sort this mess out that's all. :)

It will not sort any mess probably make it worse, anyway what mess? and I am a bit time poor at present and have other things to do than sit here and postulate. Thanks anyway.

[peterthames]

postulate
· v. /"pQstjUleIt/
1 suggest or assume the existence, fact, or truth of (something) as a basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.
2 (in ecclesiastical law) nominate or elect to an ecclesiastical office subject to the sanction of a higher authority.
· n. /"pQstjUl@t/ a thing postulated.
– DERIVATIVES postulation n. postulator n.
– ORIGIN ME: from L. postulat-, postulare ‘ask’.

That does not rule out other arguments beside religion.
Anyway I told you I'm no scholar.

[Seamus]

Anyway I told you I'm no scholar.

Hardly necessary.:p

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Hardly necessary.:pI would be a little worried if he was.

[Ford]

"In fact, even if religious and conscience rights were trumping, there’s still arguments about whose religion or conscience — the doctor’s or the woman’s — should prevail when conflicts arise over abortion care".

For you lovers of history, there was a time, 1950's/60's, to be specific, when pharmacies chose whether to stock condoms or not. Catholic Chemists ususlly did not. A request for any birth control device bought you a lecture on the evils of contraception.
I simply found another chemist.

Now, if I had a choice, I would rather keep a pregnancy than not. However, not being a woman and even if I was the father, it was never my choice to make.

So I believe it is the woman's choice alone and that should be supporterd at every level.

However, to force a doctor to terminate a pregnancy against his conscience is probably not a good idea. Doctors are not all so sane that none would ever see himself/herself as a 'Servant of God', with a subliminal duty to punish evildoers. :eek:

The point is, in case I have muddied my own water too much, Doctors who are opposed to 'choice' need to say so and remove themselves from that area of practice. However, as takers of the oath, they are still requried to respect the woman's right to terminate and direct her to an appropriate surgeon then forget it. :o

[atheist_angel]

Hi Peter. We haven't properly met yet because you were sent to the Island, just before my arrival. I have noticed that you have been discussing abortion since February. Anyway, I get the feeling that you don't fully understand what abortion is, and why we need it. Sadly, I figure if you don't get it by now, you probably never will. But hopefully, you do understand that many abortions happen "spontaneously", which can happen for many reasons, but should happen whenever there are severe defects. Unfortunately, as you should know, nature isn't perfect and sometimes natural abortions don't happen when they should or don't happen completely the way they should.

Many times these things do show up on ultrasound though. This is a lovely little girl. But I have to admit, if it were my decision, I would have opted for the Pbirth abortion rather than subjecting this poor child to the over 20 surgeries that she has had so far and all the future surgeries that are to come. :(

Meet Juliana... She is a person. She is also from a religious family.
At our first ultrasound, her stomach could not be found. We were brought back two weeks later for another one, when she was a little larger. Still her stomach was not seen. From: http://www.julianawetmore.net/story.php You can find out more about her story and her family at: http://www.julianawetmore.net/index.php
9W42qczXqsI

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Indeed. So much for "pro-life" eh.

[peterthames]

I have to admit, if it were my decision, I would have opted for the Pbirth abortion rather than subjecting this poor child to the over 20 surgeries that she has had so far and all the future surgeries that are to come.

Hello atheist_angel, thanks for your comments, about Juliana, it was not your decision so now she lives and she can have an opinion on whether to have the surgeries, what will she say later in life, I wonder.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Hello atheist_angel, thanks for your comments, about Juliana, it was not your decision so now she lives and she can have an opinion on whether to have the surgeries, what will she say later in life, I wonder.What kind of logic is that? No offence to you peterthames but dodging the topic by saying "That was not your decision" is not answering the question. You were missing the point atheist_angel was trying to make. I think she was saying that had she had been aborted she wouldn't have to suffer so much. She wouldn't have had to die in pain if she had been aborted would she?

Just a note: the title of this thread is still relevant. I suggest reading my VERY FIRST post on this thread first. It will show how "pro life" you really are.

[peterthames]

In simple terms I am against abortion because the Human whose life is being ended does not get a say in the matter as to whether they should live or die, a bit like a death sentence being carried out then later on it was found that the dead prisoner was set up and never committed the crime.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

But a question arises as to whether or not they even need to get a say. They are not at a significant stage in birth yet.

Also do you believe it is actually right to force anti-abortion laws upon women? I think that is absurd.

Stepping aside from abortion for a while: are you for or against euthanasia? And if so why?

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Make sure it is locked really tight. :D

[peterthames]

Anyway, I get the feeling that you don't fully understand what abortion is, and why we need it. Sadly, I figure if you don't get it by now, you probably never will. But hopefully, you do understand that many abortions happen "spontaneously", which can happen for many reasons, but should happen whenever there are severe defects. Unfortunately, as you should know, nature isn't perfect and sometimes natural abortions don't happen when they should or don't happen completely the way they should.

I fully understand what abortion is, and why we need it. Does not mean I have to agree, sure nature takes humans spontaneously, I don't have an issue with that, and because nature missed one or two does not mean we interfere and take it instead, my main concern is interfering with a healthy pregnancy for much less reasons like unplanned pregnancies etc.

[peterthames]

25 more posts and it's pull down the roller door!

What the....just getting started, more free speech censored. This is fantasy island is it not.

[peterthames]

Stepping aside from abortion for a while: are you for or against euthanasia? And if so why?

I think I have said before I am not against euthanasia because that person wishing to die is the one who makes that decision, no one else.

[peterthames]

Don't muck around with other people's lives and impose your beliefs on them.

So Crocodile looks like you are doing the above preaching that abortion is OK and interfering with someone else's life in the making, I presume you would have ended Juliana's life if it was up to you.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I think I have said before I am not against euthanasia because that person wishing to die is the one who makes that decision, no one else.Well at least there is something reasonable about you. :)

Now regarding abortion: it is similar. A woman should have the choice as to whether or not she can have the baby or not. Why? Well the embryo is still attached to the woman and is not born and hasn't got a brain that is even half developed.

We do not remember what it was like inside the tummy of mummy because our brains were not as developed.

Therefore embryos really do not need to have much of a say in this. An embryo doesn't give a hoot about whether or not they are alive or dead. They are not well developed enough to do this.

According to my mother a woman goes through a lot of pain when giving birth. A woman must have the choice as to whether or not she wants to go through that pain.

[peterthames]

Put up some hard facts or bugger off.

With the greatest respect Mr Black, "same to you"
Where are the hard facts to support the ending of a life in the making?

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

So Crocodile looks like you are doing the above preaching that abortion is OK and interfering with someone else's life in the making, I presume you would have ended Juliana's life if it was up to you.Yes of course. I doubt I would want her to go through a lot of pain. Mate I have had my fair share of operations. All of them hurt after the operation despite me being on anaesthetics. Imagine what she was going through. I bet she wishes she was dead.

I am not fucking around with other peoples' lives unlike the anti-abortion creeps. If a woman doesn't want to have a baby then so be it. Like I said the embryo really doesn't give a shit.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

What the....just getting started, more free speech censored. This is fantasy island is it not.If what you have done so far is "just getting started" then I would hate to see what the finish is.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

With the greatest respect Mr Black, "same to you"
Where are the hard facts to support the ending of a life in the making?Here are some hard facts supporting the "ending of a life in the making" as you call it: The embryo is not a significant stage in development All this "life starts at conception" is actually from Catholic teaching and is obsolete in today's world When the baby is born it is the woman that suffers and not the baby itself Nobody remembers when they were born as an embryo does not have a brain that is capable of doing such and this is one piece of evidence that the embryo is insignificant compared to the woman An embryo is parasitic to the woman's body and uses the nutrients that the woman also needs and therefore means the woman needs to consume more to satisfy her requirements as well as the requirements of the embryo growing inside For every stillbirth and miscarriage and every sperm that is killed there is no funeral The embryo is not a complete human yet It is attached to the woman via an umbilical cord and therefore is part of the woman and is therefore the woman's decision as to whether or not to keep this parasitic partAnything else?

[peterthames]

I doubt I would want her to go through a lot of pain.

Here is that I word, what I want, what I want and what she wants is up to her, (abortion exempted) not up to us.

What price do you put on a life? it is priceless I would think.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Where's the life mate?! Her life is a complete waste thanks to the pain and suffering she goes through.

I called this thread "Attention pro-life wannabes" because people who claim to be "pro life" are actually extremely good at advocating the destruction of lives.

Being dead is better than suffering. Dead people do not have to suffer.

With anti-abortion you are hurting a woman's life. If it is saving the baby's life by not aborting it it still hurts the woman's life particularly in rape cases for example.

What kind of ridiculous compromise is that?

[peterthames]

Here are some hard facts supporting the "ending of a life in the making" as you call it:

The embryo is not a significant stage in development
All this "life starts at conception" is actually from Catholic teaching and is obsolete in today's world
When the baby is born it is the woman that suffers and not the baby itself
Nobody remembers when they were born as an embryo does not have a brain that is capable of doing such and this is one piece of evidence that the embryo is insignificant compared to the woman
An embryo is parasitic to the woman's body and uses the nutrients that the woman also needs and therefore means the woman needs to consume more to satisfy her requirements as well as the requirements of the embryo growing inside
For every stillbirth and miscarriage and every sperm that is killed there is no funeral
The embryo is not a complete human yet
It is attached to the woman via an umbilical cord and therefore is part of the woman and is therefore the woman's decision as to whether or not to keep this parasitic part

Anything else?

None of that supports ending a priceless life and
All this "life starts at conception" is actually from Catholic teaching, Not for me I did not learn it from any Catholic institution.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

None of that supports ending a priceless life and
All this "life starts at conception" is actually from Catholic teaching, Not for me I did not learn it from any Catholic institution.And how is an embryo a priceless life? How is it priceless compared to the life of the woman? The burden of proof lies upon you now.

[robertkd]

Here is that I word, what I want, what I want and what she wants is up to her, (abortion exempted) not up to us.

What price do you put on a life? it is priceless I would think.

Well here you are on one hand "not what you want" and on the other you want to impose your will, but "not up to us" what??,...

Let me say it again Pro Choice, FFS get it into your head you don't make decisions for other people and neither do I, they should be able to make their own choice.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

What price do you put on a life? it is priceless I would think.Depends on who's life it is mate.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

He's giving you a pretty good deal there peterthames and it is worth considering.

[peterthames]

Where's the life mate?! Her life is a complete waste thanks to the pain and suffering she goes through.

I called this thread "Attention pro-life wannabes" because people who claim to be "pro life" are actually extremely good at advocating the destruction of lives.

Being dead is better than suffering. Dead people do not have to suffer.

With anti-abortion you are hurting a woman's life. If it is saving the baby's life by not aborting it it still hurts the woman's life particularly in rape cases for example.

What kind of ridiculous compromise is that?

How do you know her life is a complete waste?

Give me example of "pro life" are actually extremely good at advocating the destruction of lives. I would like to see that.

Being dead is better than suffering. Maybe if you suffer every single second, what about the times you are not suffering, all depends on the balance.

Rape cases account for what percentage of all abortions?

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

How do you know her life is a complete waste?Have a look at the circumstances and the conditions she has been exposed to and her vulnerability to them and then you will know.

Give me example of "pro life" are actually extremely good at advocating the destruction of lives. I would like to see that.Same here. ;)

Being dead is better than suffering. Maybe if you suffer every single second, what about the times you are not suffering, all depends on the balance.

Rape cases account for what percentage of all abortions?Is that even remotely important at this stage? How about using Google to find out.

In any case what if the pregnancy was unwanted in the first place? Do you object to using condoms and pills too?

[peterthames]

Arrrghhhh.. OK. Here's a deal for you. You take your "argument" to the debate forum. These are the rules you will follow.

1. Only the two debaters may post in any debate thread. (Moderators may interject if things become unruly.)

2. Conduct of debate:
* an opening post by you, stating your case.
* a rebuttal by the second poster,
* then five posts each regarding the topic,
* and one closing post each.
* Any figures or data must be referenced, or forfeit.

3. A three-day response time will be allowed on each post rebuttal. Late response will be deemed a forfeit.

4. Commentary on debates will be permitted in appropriately-titled threads, open to all posters, on the main part of Fantasy Island. Commenters are asked to be fair within reason: sledging or prompting may be frowned upon.

This is your final attempt to discuss this topic. Make it or break it.
You will need to use logic and reason and present your case in an evidence based format.

Take it or leave it...

Let me know when you're ready. You choose your opponent.

Thanks Protium, but I am not up to this and the rules will never work, I'll just bow out now and agree to dis agree, I know we will never get anywhere with this topic and it has all been covered before, no point at all repeating it, I am trying a different angle in this post but as you know it all comes back to the same old thing. Just close it now before I'm banned again for another month. Thanks.

[peterthames]

Do you object to using condoms and pills too?

I was never against these things, I support them.
Now I'm outa here.
Goodnight

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

tGvHNNOLnCk&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000

[robertkd]

that wasn't really entertaining, perhaps something on "youth in asia"

[Fearless]

What the....just getting started, more free speech censored. This is fantasy island is it not.

Just getting started? you have been chasing your tail on this topic over and over, well for longer than I want to recall in this and previous threads.

It is not about censorship, it is all about preventing the flogging of dead horses which you are so great at doing... it is getting a little old Peter... find a new record (without the scratches).

Oops is that censorship too? ...Problem is IDGAF

Ever had brain freeze from eating things that are too cold... it's starting to get that way... painful to the brain. Like the little smart arse kid at the front of the class... always has to be heard, whether anyone wants to hear him or not... but damn, don't dare to challenge him or you will never hear the end of it.

[atheist_angel]

I tell ya, these 'pro-life wannabes' really get under my skin...

It's not like laying an egg
where you can just throw up your hands and say "just let nature sort it out, man..." as you walk away... ffs!

How demeaning! :mad:
and cruel...

Add: I think peter's g-d made him the wrong species.
Atheist or not, this is woo talk...

[atheist_angel]

Well he hasn't hardly spoken about anything else, but abortion for eight and ahalf months... So if you don't abort him soon, this topic could endup being born into something tragic. I wouldn't want to see that.

Here's another pro-life wannabe: children are being used to broadcast heartfelt anti-abortion propaganda to other children. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOR1wUqvJS4 This little girl, raised in a religious family, is very articulate and very misinformed... Comments are turned off. Naturally. After all, the parents would not want to take the risk getting an educated response. I wish I could call this a new low, but we all know it's just more of the same old shyt...

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Can anybody supply any good reason why Peterthames should not be aborted?Because LIFE STARTS AT CONCEPTION GODDAMNIT err I mean yes go ahead.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I'll be honest I was kind of hoping this would have been closed by Post 100 or so. It is clearly not going anywhere.

Well at least my first post is what is the most important aspect of this thread by the look of what has been posted.

[peterthames]

One last thing before I go, it takes two to argue and respond, you all shoot me down for my views but then you all rub your own views in on it to, so your no worse than me rubbing it in, this is not my soap box, I did not start the topic or bring it up again with a title like Attention pro-life wannabes, and words like
I tell ya, these 'pro-life wannabes' really get under my skin... well that's your problem, I'm not knocking on your door to preach like the witnesses, and:
Well he hasn't hardly spoken about anything else, but abortion for eight and a half months...
Seewhat I mean if I have been talking about it for eight and a half months, then who's prolonging it? you pro choice wannabes who reply to me fuel it. So that's it, I have finished talking about it, now I will be the only Pro-Life in the Atheist village.
If the subject is brought up again then sanction that person for bringing up a subject that has been done to death.
Life is not always logic and reason protium, emotion is a good thing sometimes also, that is the chemistry of love, try debating the feeling of love and see how far and frustrating you can get. I'm a member of this earth at present and I feel no less of it because of my personal view that life starts at conception, I'm full of self confidence that I am alive and when I'm dead that is it, there is no god no heaven no hell I have fulfilled natures on-going process, I live, I reproduce and I die. Goodbye now lets lets talk about something else if we must.