Needing some opinions...

[c2009]

I'm really not quite sure where to put this, but I'd like some input. I'm about to nail my colours to the mast, so to speak. IOW, I'm about to "come out" atheist to my online Christian friends. I don't want to drive them away as they're all very nice, but I refuse to keep this hidden any longer - i consider it an insult to both myself and them.

Following is the draft for a "letter" which I'm going to post on my WordPress blog and post a link to on my Facebook page. Does anyone have any suggestions?

I'm trying to come across as friendly but firm, in the hope of doing some small part in shattering the view that many where they are from (most of them are located in the US) have of atheists.

I realise that in all likelihood they will not understand my decision, and I'm prepared to cop on the chin some fallout (I view it as pretty much inevitable).

---------------------

My dear Christian friends,

This letter may be percieved as offensive to some of you, but I feel I must convey this matter to you all to explain my current position.

I am certain that it will shock you to discover that I am now atheist, and do not believe in the existence of any gods (that, by the way, is all that atheism means; it does not imply any views on morality, and indeed, we'd probably agree on many of our morals to this day).

Upon my recent reflections on the Bible, it has become immensely clear of the kind of God that the God of the Bible truly is. The horrors justified in the name of God in the Old Testatment cannot be ignored. Before any of you say, "I am ignorant of the Bible", I will propose to you that I am not. Although I do not have an in depth knowledge of theology, I have read the entire Bible enough times to know about its content.

And this content horrifies me.

Do not mistake me, I do think Jesus had a lot of good to say (though some bad as well); however, the falsehoods proposed in the Bible prove that it is not the word of any God, but of men.

And I do mean men, not women, for the place which women are given is not one I wish to be associated with. Even in the New Testament, women are effectively chattel (that is, the property of men). My conscience simply cannot sit at ease with such a position. The fact is, that upon my reading, logic tells me to discard these scriptures as man-made; for any God worth loving and worshipping would not, in my observation, wish to be associated with such works.

And indeed, I do not discard all of the Bible as useless; as a literary work, it is, in parts, quite beautiful. And I still to this day love dearly the book of Ecclesiastes.

So, you might say, I have submitted to cold, hard, logic. "Cold, hard logic" has lead me to a view of the universe that has me in awe of it. My amazement at the universe and how life has come about through evolution via natural selection (which I now fully accept as the evidence for it is actually overwhelming; I encourage all of you to look into the matter with an open mind). Indeed, if logic is cold and hard, then education is cold, and should not be engendered into.

I cannot, having the good fortune to have the ability to think critically, to refuse to use this, even on matters of religion and god. It would, in my view of the universe, be a shame to not apply my intellect to such a thing. My mind always screams to enquire, to ask, to question, and that is something I can no longer deny with good conscience, so I will not deny it.

Despite all of this, I hope our friendship can continue, for despite our new difference of opinion, I can see that underneath, and in spite of all that you believe, that you are all of good character. Although I am open to being proven wrong, I would prefer not to engage with you in debates on this. I have avenues for that, and will be continuously challenging my intellect, pressing it on ever higher, in the same way as the scientific method continues to make new discoveries.

I hope all of you will some day come to see the world as I have come to. It is just as beautiful with no God in sight. I wish you all long and successful lives. Live each day as though it's the last, it's all we have. I want to let you know, however, that I will, in all likelihood, not be returning to Christianity, and I humbly ask that you respect this.

Yours in honesty

Cameron Stevens
Atheist

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

How about some of the Bible verse references that you consider offensive?

[atheist_angel]

If I were coming out to American Christian friends, I would want to say something just like that (gentle and respectful).


But, you're going to need an NT opinion, which mine is not. :(

[Logic]

Do not mistake me, I do think Jesus had a lot of good to say (though some bad as well); however, the falsehoods proposed in the Bible prove that it is not the word of any God, but of men.

This could be interpreted that you still believe Jesus exists, although maybe you do, but as a man not as son of god?

[Unsacred Cow]

@c2009: I think that's extremely courageous and honest of you. Infact, it has prompted me to think about gaining the courage to do the same with some of my facebook friends that I have from my faithful days.

It's respectful and honest. A friend couldn't ask for more than that. If they do, perhaps they were never a friend in the first place.

[c2009]

How about some of the Bible verse references that you consider offensive?

Probably not going to bother with the OT stuff, as even most Christians admit it's horrid, but I was thinking of perhaps referring to some of the passages referring to women being silent and subm issive. I'm not a woman, but even as a man I find these offensive.

How about these?

--------------------------------

Teaching about the Law - Mat 5:17-20

17“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved.19So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

20“But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!

OK, so that's what Jesus said. What about later on in the NT?

The Letter to the Gentiles from the Apostles in Acts 12:23-28

“This letter is from the apostles and elders, your brothers in Jerusalem. It is written to the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia. Greetings!

24“We understand that some men from here have troubled you and upset you with their teaching, but we did not send them! 25So we decided, having come to complete agreement, to send you official representatives, along with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27We are sending Judas and Silas to confirm what we have decided concerning your question.
28“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no greater burden on you than these few requirements:

29You must abstain from eating food offered to idols, from consuming blood or the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. If you do this, you will do well. Farewell.”

Double standard anyone? In this day, two laws of God supposedly stand (for Christ did not abolish the old Law). The Jews are under one law, and the Gentiles another! How is this just and fair?

As regards women:

1 Tim 2:11-14 (NLT)

11Let a woman in quietness learn in all subjection, 12and a woman I do not suffer to teach, nor to rule a husband, but to be in quietness, 13for Adam was first formed, then Eve, 14and Adam was not deceived, but the woman, having been deceived, into transgression came, 15and she shall be saved through the child-bearing, if they remain in faith, and love, and sanctification, with sobriety.

And to prove this is not just a once off, we read similar again in 1st Corinthians:

1 Cor 14:34-35 (NLT)

34Your women in the assemblies let them be silent, for it hath not been permitted to them to speak, but to be subject, as also the law saith; 35and if they wish to learn anything, at home their own husbands let them question, for it is a shame to women to speak in an assembly.

I personally find these remarks regarding women's silence in the churches downright offensive. Are not women the equal of man according to our conscience? Yet, no, the Bible would have us keep them quiet.

Elsewhere the Bible tells women to dress modestly. Although it does not elaborate, it's not at all unreasonable to suspect that this is intended in a similar sense as is seen in the Islamic religion.

-----------------------

Thanks for the suggestions so far, keep them coming!

[c2009]

This could be interpreted that you still believe Jesus exists, although maybe you do, but as a man not as son of god?

Pretty much. I suspect there probably was a person called Jesus (the name in hebrew, Yeshua, was actually quite common in his day), who said a lot of good things, but was unfortunately taken completely out of context and set up as a God to push a religion, and also had some lines added later. I suspect he said some things that the Romans didn't like, and neither did the Jews, so they got rid of him, and didn't realise people would take that as a form of martyrdom.

It's not an implausible concept. One only needs to read about the cargo cults of the Pacific in more recent times to realise it's not even remotely impossible.

[robertkd]

I'm not even so sure jebus had so many good points accordingly he or at least the character written about by the writers of the NT (saul) indicate that "he" was somewhat off the rails kinda in line with a lot of the krap in the OT, seems to be part and parcel with the territory.

As for coming out you realise you friends wont likely understand and will want to help you to understand the err of your ways.

[atheist_angel]

If you use verses that are too strong, they might be a social turn off. If you use verses that are too mild, they won't support your point. I would write a separate blog on bible verses, but I wouldn't put it online, unless it became necessary. The bible is really offensive in its brutality. And it (the bible) is patronizing and insulting in its kindness and so called positive moral teachings...

Trying to prove that j'Yesus didn't exist is like trying to prove that Batman didn't exist. Can it be proven? Well not really. However, without proof to the contrary, it doesn’t make sense to believe that either character was based on a specific person. Fictional characters are often based on the author’s inspirational observations of many people. And there have been multiple authors for both characters.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

But unfortunately sometimes the truth is harsh. Note that I am speaking from the perspective of an autistic person so I have nothing to loose as far as friendship is concerned - but sometimes the strong verses must be mentioned.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Trying to prove that j'Yesus didn't exist is like trying to prove that Batman didn't exist. Can it be proven? Well not really. However, without proof to the contrary, it doesn’t make sense to believe that either character was based on a specific person. Fictional characters are often based on the author’s inspirational observations of many people. And there have been multiple authors for both characters.http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/09/14/batman_wideweb__430x300.jpg

[c2009]

I'm not even so sure jebus had so many good points accordingly he or at least the character written about by the writers of the NT (saul) indicate that "he" was somewhat off the rails kinda in line with a lot of the krap in the OT, seems to be part and parcel with the territory.

As for coming out you realise you friends wont likely understand and will want to help you to understand the err of your ways.

My personal suspicion is that the character Jesus is based on was decent enough, but was a rebel, so they modified his lines a little to appease the Romans (meaning a lot - after all, the Biblical texts were for the most part written quite some time after when he supposedly lived, so there was plenty of time to think about what should go in).

Much of what Paul (Saul) wrote is unforgivable, although the chapter on love in 1st Corinthinans is a rare shard of light in the dark. And I won't even start with Revelation... Those must have been some damned strong drugs that John was taking.

As far as the friends not understanding, and trying to recapture me, I realise that. I'm expecting that, it's something of a reflex action.

I 'spose I could keep the verses out for a later post to the blog?

[c2009]

OK, I think this one may be the final one. I'm going to bed right now, but I'd like some views. I'll be submitting in the morning sometime. I decided to forgo the references, I may add them later if I'm asked for them. I decided to forewarn that some of my future postings on the web may be harsh against Christianity, but that it is not intended as a direct attack against them. I suspect not all of them will understand this, but I feel I have to mention it, as my feelings are strong, and I try to give them a voice where I can.

--------------------------------------

My dear Christian friends,

This letter may be perceived as offensive to some of you, but I feel I must convey this matter to you all to explain my current position.

I am certain that it will shock you to discover that I am now atheist, and do not believe in the existence of any gods (that, by the way, is all that atheism means; it does not imply any views on morality, and indeed, we'd probably agree on many of our morals to this day). I do not wish to debate on this matter here. I have other avenues in which to do so.

Upon my recent reflections on the Bible, it has become immensely clear of the kind of God that the God of the Bible truly is. The horrors justified in the name of God in the Old Testament cannot be ignored. Before any of you say, "I am ignorant of the Bible", I will propose to you that I am not. Although I do not have an in depth knowledge of theology, and I will happily concede this, I have read the entire Bible enough times to know about its content.

And this content horrifies me.

I may in future writings criticise religions, including Christianity. This will be nothing personal. It is not, and I stress this, it is not intended as a personal attack - I have no such intention. It is my view that nothing, no worldview, no saying and no thought process, should not be subject to firm and constructive criticism. I firmly believe that no idea, no matter how worthy, should be free from this. Indeed, my view is that it is through this process of constructive criticism that good, honest, and logical ideas are upheld and respected - this is the source of the very freedoms we all (yourselves included) hold dear. From time to time I shall rant. I shall seem intolerant. But please be aware that underneath, I care about you all.

Indeed, I have had this post challenged elsewhere before posting it here for general viewing.

Do not mistake me, I do think Jesus had some good to say (though some bad as well; I do not believe he was God incarnate). However, the falsehoods that I see proposed in the Bible, to my mind, prove that it is not the word of any God, but of men.

And I do mean men, not women, for the place which women are given in many places within its pages is not one I wish to associate myself with. Even in the New Testament, women are considered as somewhat of a second class citizen. My conscience simply cannot sit at ease with such a position. The fact is, that upon my reading, logic tells me to discard these scriptures as man-made; for any God worth loving and worshipping would not, in my observation, wish to be associated with such works.

Elsewhere the Bible tells women to dress modestly. Although it does not elaborate on what precisely this means, it's not at all unreasonable to suspect that this is intended in a similar sense as is seen in the Islamic religion. This too horrifies me.

Despite all of this, I hope our friendships can continue. For despite our new-found difference of opinion, I can see that underneath, and regardless of all that you believe, and that which I no longer believe, that you are all of good character. Although I am open to being proven wrong, I would prefer not to engage with you in debates on this - debates have a habit of getting nasty, and I don't wish the wonderful friendships we have to be destroyed by any this. I have avenues for debate, and will be continuously challenging my intellect, pressing it on ever higher, in the same way as the scientific method continues to make new discoveries through continuous revision and enquiry.

Just so you know, I do not discard all of the Bible as useless, I just do not accept that it's the word of any god. As a literary work, it is, in parts, quite beautiful. I still to this day love dearly the book of Ecclesiastes, for instance.

So, you might say, I have submitted to cold, hard, logic. "Cold, hard logic" has led me to a view of the universe that has me in awe of it. My amazement at the universe and how life has come about through evolution via natural selection (which I now fully accept, as the evidence for it is actually overwhelming; I encourage all of you to look into the matter with an open mind). Indeed, if logic is cold and hard, then education is cold, and should not be engendered into. Clearly this is not so.

I cannot, having the good fortune to have the ability to think critically, to refuse to use this, even on matters of religion and god. It would, in my view of the universe, be a shame to not apply my intellect to such a thing. It would be a neglect of the great endowment which we have been granted. I posit that any God worth his salt would encourage my thought and critical thinking. My mind always screams to enquire, to ask, to question, and that is something I can no longer deny with good conscience, so I will not deny it.

I hope all of you will some day come to see the world as I have come to. It is just as beautiful with no God in sight. I wish you all long and successful lives. Live each day as though it's the last, it's all we have. I want to let you know, however, that I will, in all likelihood, not be returning to Christianity, and I humbly ask that you respect this and not try to re-convert me. This is a path I have chosen willingly, and without coercion.

Yours in honesty,

Cameron Stevens
Atheist

--------------------------------

This actually hurts in a way. I'm rejecting, basically to their face, the views I once shared with them. This is going to be the hardest thing I've ever done, but it does need to be done.

[atheist_angel]

I will not be able to read it and fully mentally process it (think it over) by morning. I'm in a different timezone. I will have to look it over tomorrow. :(

[c2009]

I'm used to dealing with US timezones. There's no rush, I can delay publishing it if it'll help refine it.

[atheist_angel]

Cool. You could even publish something else in the meantime, if you needed to. ;)

[Ford]

c2009,
Here's my tuppenece worth.
It is brave of you to 'come out' in a way. It is brave because most of the others appear to be 'going the other way'. What I'm saying is; you will appear to be wrong to the devout no matter how much you justify it with quotes etc., so don't bother.

My advice is to simply tell them you can no longer believe in a personal god and you are therefore an Atheist. But other than declaring your Atheism, nothing has changed.


You:

Don't need to defend your decision, as it is your business and your business only.
Respect their beliefs as their business.
Need and want them as friends.
Don't need or want to talk them into being atheist.
Have the same values as before.
What you ask is :

They respect your choice as you respect theirs.
They don't try to change your beliefs.
They continue being your friend.
All that has changed about you, is that you now trust them with the knowlege you are a non-believer. You are the same person they have always known. And you hope they will still value you as a friend (as they did while you were living a lie).

You may lose some 'friends', but think about it. The ones that go were friends of the person you were pretending to be! They never were yours. The ones that stay are your real friends and you will attract more. Much more comfortable! Good luck! :)

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Now I am not the best at making friends so maybe a normal person can correct me if I am wrong but if they break the friendship because of the beliefs then they were probably not good friends anyway.

[atheist_angel]

Well, you’re kind of showing all your cards at once there, Cam. You touch on horror, science, biblical philosophy (literary), j’Yesus, G-d, evolution, debate, logic, etc.

Everything you wrote was really good.

Why not write a separate blog for each thing.



That way your initial letter could be more concise.


You have gone to great lengths to remind the readers that you are thinking for yourself, quite a few times.

You seem to be worried that they will assume that you are not.
Or, that you are under someone's control.



Why?



There comes a time in life, for all of us, when we have to eat our own words. Which is what coming out is partly about. At least for me, it was anyway. Here is a draft, for you to play with the idea of making it concise.
My dear Christian friends,

I am certain that it will surprise you to discover that I am now atheist, and do not believe in the existence of any gods (that, by the way, is all that atheism means; it does not imply any views on morality, and indeed, we'd probably agree on many of our morals to this day).

Upon my recent reflections on the Bible, the horrors justified in the name of God in the Old Testament cannot be ignored. Before any of you say, "I am ignorant of the Bible", I will propose to you that I am not. Although I do not have an in depth knowledge of theology, I have read the entire Bible enough times to know about its content. And this content is mostly, well horrifying.


I may, in future writings, go into deeper depth on how I feel about religion. I firmly believe that no idea, no matter how worthy, should be free from constructive criticism. From time to time I shall rant. I shall seem intolerant.

Please be aware that underneath, I care about you all. I want to let you know, however, that I will, in all likelihood, not be returning to Christianity, and I humbly ask that you respect this and not try to re-convert me. This is a path I have chosen willingly, and without coercion. I hope all of you will some day come to see the world as I have come to.


I hope our friendships can continue. For despite our new-found difference of opinion, I can see that underneath, and regardless of all that you believe, and that which I no longer believe, that you are all of good character.

I would prefer not to engage with you in debates on this - debates have a habit of getting nasty, and I don't wish the wonderful friendships we have to be destroyed by any this.

Yours in honesty,

Cameron Stevens
Atheist

[c2009]

AA: That's perfect. Says most of what I want to say in about half the space.

I'm trying to assure them somewhat that I haven't been brainwashed, that this has come from my own reflections. I won't tell them that I've denied the holy spirit, making the whole thing irreversible; I think at this point, that would strike too deep a chasm.

I am prepared for some fallout.

I did want to hint at the beauty I see that has been revealed to me courtesy of the wonderful scientific method, but I just remembered that on the same blog that this'll be posted on, I have a poem I composed recently that reflects on life and the universe, and I think that should do the job (you can find that here (http://cammo2009.wordpress.com/2009/10/04/the-elegance-of-the-nature-of-life/#more-30) if you're interested).

Croc: Indeed, part of why I'm doing this is to find out who my true friends are.

Well, thanks for the input everyone. I'm going to go with AA's suggested one.

[atheist_angel]

I'm glad we could help, but I do want you to be prepared for the worst. :(

:mad: If the way the believers behave on YouTube is any indication, you may lose a lot of friends.

If that happens, just remember, they are the brainwashed ones, not you. ;)

Chin up, Cam. :o:)

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Well, you’re kind of showing all your cards at once there, Cam. You touch on horror, science, biblical philosophy (literary), j’Yesus, G-d, evolution, debate, logic, etc.

Everything you wrote was really good.

Why not write a separate blog for each thing.



That way your initial letter could be more concise.


You have gone to great lengths to remind the readers that you are thinking for yourself, quite a few times.

You seem to be worried that they will assume that you are not.
Or, that you are under someone's control.



Why?



There comes a time in life, for all of us, when we have to eat our own words. Which is what coming out is partly about. At least for me, it was anyway. Here is a draft, for you to play with the idea of making it concise.Couldn't have said that better myself.

[davo]

My personal suspicion is that the character Jesus is based on was decent enough, but was a rebel, so they modified his lines a little to appease the Romans (meaning a lot - after all, the Biblical texts were for the most part written quite some time after when he supposedly lived, so there was plenty of time to think about what should go in).


off tangent a little .. but validity in the concept your holding might be something interesting you wish to explore further, before just taking it as even having validity.

If you look at all the beliefs in the area this jesus was just a literary construct, that did basically the same things as all the 'saviours' since early egypt. Considering there is no evidence for a jesus of the bible outside of it, and considering their was some pretty massive miracles notably also done by other literary constructs, or 'bettering them at the same type of miracle, it's something you might want to investigate yourself before just taking the stance this was actually a person, and explaining their attributes with no real knowledge of them at all ;)

[c2009]

off tangent a little .. but validity in the concept your holding might be something interesting you wish to explore further, before just taking it as even having validity.

If you look at all the beliefs in the area this jesus was just a literary construct, that did basically the same things as all the 'saviours' since early egypt. Considering there is no evidence for a jesus of the bible outside of it, and considering their was some pretty massive miracles notably also done by other literary constructs, or 'bettering them at the same type of miracle, it's something you might want to investigate yourself before just taking the stance this was actually a person, and explaining their attributes with no real knowledge of them at all ;)

That's pretty much my contention, but I do suspect that at least a few parts of the story are based on actual events, and the rest were added on from existing myths. As most such tales are, a few parts are truth, but most of it is lies. The small bits of truth are to allow the follower to suspend their disbelief. Something for the people to hook onto ("Oh, yes, I remember that incident/my family told me about that!") as a launching pad to sell the snake oil.

Just enough truth to sell a lie, so to speak.

Already, I have learned something I didn't know previously -- one of my real life friend's brother, who was once a fairly firm believer, is now agnostic.

[atheist_angel]

That's pretty much my contention, but I do suspect that at least a few parts of the story are based on actual events, and the rest were added on from existing myths. As most such tales are, a few parts are truth, but most of it is lies. The small bits of truth are to allow the follower to suspend their disbelief. Something for the people to hook onto ("Oh, yes, I remember that incident/my family told me about that!") as a launching pad to sell the snake oil.

Just enough truth to sell a lie, so to speak.

Already, I have learned something I didn't know previously -- one of my real life friend's brother, who was once a fairly firm believer, is now agnostic.Well, the Jewish bits about the j'Yesus story aren't quite right. They don't make any sense. There are a few interesting theories about where the j'Yesus myth came from. This is just one, but the data provided in it is very over-simplified. I don't know for sure, why they over-simplified it. I think it is a bit erroneous to over-simplify things.

Perhaps they did it to make it easier for Xtians to follow...


BNf-P_5u_Hw

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

And the easier it was for Christians to follow the less sense it made?
You know I just had a strange thought. You know the argument that Christians use saying that you shouldn't take the Bible literally? Maybe then the Bible is true - after all all this time it was all sarcasm all the time.

[atheist_angel]

And the easier it was for Christians to follow the less sense it made?Well, not exactly. None of the savior g-ds existed anyway, it was all just literature. The vid just over-simplifies the literature. :rolleyes:

But maybe, I'm just being picky. :p
You know I just had a strange thought. You know the argument that Christians use saying that you shouldn't take the Bible literally? Maybe then the Bible is true - after all all this time it was all sarcasm all the time.Hey, you're right. The bible actually would make more sense if you read it from a sarcastic point of view. :p

[c2009]

Well, it's doing well thus far. I've had nearly 1/3 of my friends list visit by the look of my blog stats.

It's nice to see actual hits on the blog for a change. Usually I get zero hits a day. :p

All the replies I've had on my FB account have been of the "disappointed, but we're still friends" variety (except for the friend's brother, whom I've met in real life, and didn't know had become agnostic.

[TÐöer]

Sorry for the late response. For those who did not receive your letter.

I would have to agree with Ford.

We need not justify ourselves to them. I mean, a Christian and a Hindu have little problems, because they don't proclaim the other is false. (Well, at least not in the open :P)

I think a more subtle way, would be to tell them that you aren't too sure whether gods exist when they mention it. If the hell card is played, just say: If a kind god exist he'd accept you into heaven, because you were as good as humanly possible.

There's no need to explain which portions you disagree with them.

If you find that they think likewise, then you can start to share your 2 cents. Maybe you've found another unproclaimed atheist.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

We need not justify ourselves to them. I mean, a Christian and a Hindu have little problems, because they don't proclaim the other is false. (Well, at least not in the open :P)O RLY? Apparently I have met many Christians who love to proclaim their religion is true and every other one is false. In the open too. Oh the stupidity.

[TÐöer]

Yes I know what you mean, and I do not see why, we must be polite with them, when they try to force down their believes.

But if your friends does no such thing, then there is no need to ignite conflict.

If they did not know, you are not religious, then I guess we can't blame them and should break it to them lightly.

[atheist_angel]

O RLY? Apparently I have met many Christians who love to proclaim their religion is true and every other one is false. In the open too. Oh the stupidity.Many do, but I hope Cam's friends are not like that. If they are nice, they will get to know and accept a real live atheist!

He could break stereo type. :cool:

Edit: that would be the false stereo type.
...as if there were any other kind. :rolleyes:

[Life's Good]

I tend to write a lot of words when there is something important to say. I am realising that this may not be the best approach at times. Not giving a lot of information will encourage the curious to come forward and question, which may be a better opportunity to discuss the matter.

I remember when I declared myself as an unbeliever (so many years ago) I didn't do it with a song and dance. I just said I didn't believe anymore and left it at that.

Just a thought. Not everyone likes to read a lot of words, especially if it is saying something they don't like or agree with.

And if they bag you, great! I refer to myself as a heathen devil and as I am going to burn in hell anyway, I had better get on and commit a few more sins. If nothing else, it makes for interesting conversation!

[daynasdad]

Just a quick one..............One of the foremost teachings of Christianity is; that God gives them the right of free choice, so to not allow this indulgance would in fact be slapping God in the face and they therefore should accept your decision as a fundamental right, as supported by God himself and to argue against, or to try and interfere in your choice - in any way - would go against his fundamental teachings...............Whew..... but they said it.
Certainly this puts your 'choice/logic' arguement, clearly, back in the realm of acceptance of Religion, but there is little logic acceptable to Religious types. Often to rid oneself of such angst it is better to fall back to their base level of understanding. It worked for me and now many know me as the one who made the wrong choice, but still love me anyway, more be it with pity, in some cases............. but it totally shut them up in the first instance.
Cheers

[c2009]

Well, it seems to have gone well. I haven't had any defriendings yet, anyway.

That *might* change when I start slamming the miscreants of religion on my blog. :p

It really doesn't change my view of these friends though, I know them well enough that I know they're genuinely kind, and would be even without their beliefs, IMHO.

Even had I had a mass defriending, I wouldn't have worried too much, as it'd be obvious they weren't real friends to begin with.

[atheistglory]

Please read:

Godless by Dan Barker.

This previously devout preacher did a very similar thing, and the reaction of his Christian friends were wide and varied. He lost some, he keep a few, and yielded off the attempts at "re-converstion"

In the end, he said, the one's that rejected him, were not really friends afterall.

Best of luck to you,
V

[Spud Henley]

Some opinions you say.

1. AFL is crap.
2. QLD has no chance at winning Origin.
3. Lowndes will win the V8 supercar championship.
4. Red wine is better than white.
5. Lager is a cheap flavourless beer drunk by bogans.

They might not be the opinions you want but they are opinions.

[4vturnstiles]

engendered into?
I'm no professor but I don't get that usage.