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Unsacred Cow
28th August 2009, 03:16 PM
This week I had a rather interesting experience while spending some leisure time at a local swimming centre (that will teach me to get a life!). I thought I’d share it with you. I’d be interested to hear how others think they may have responded had they been in the same predicament.

It’s a bit of a long story so grab a beer, coffee or whatever your poison. I'm having a glass of wine so....cheers!

I had just completed a session of laps and was lolling about in the deep end of the pool. The pool was deserted apart from one other lady. I estimate she was probably in her late 50’s. As is my way with people, I make some light conversation with her. I’ve generally found conversations with those older than me to be usually rather interesting in some way.

The lady begins by telling me her story as to why she’s in the swimming pool in that she has a back injury and that it provides therapy for her condition. For some reason she feels quite comfortable in elaborating even further again (this happens to me a lot). Her injury has required that she see a psychiatrist, an event she wasn't happy about. I offer my irreverent view of psychiatrists having had a fairly ordinary encounter with one in my early 20’s as well as some psychologists during my life. This is when it starts to get interesting.

She became curious as to why I’d needed to see a psychiatrist—I don’t consider it a secret or shameful, just a part of my life’s journey so I reveal that I saw a psychiatrist for an eating disorder/body image issue at that point in my life. She then reveals to me that she’s a xtian and that upon meeting with her shrink she’d asked him if he’d mind if she said a prayer before they began their session and would he also mind whether she laid hands on him while doing so. Apparently the shrink obliged.

So we take a slight turn toward Weirdsville in my head. She starts to elude as to what the cause behind eating disorders and body image issues are in her opinion. I know what she’s getting at instantly because of my background in xtian charismatic fundamentalism. Those thoughts and actions are from Satan. She asks me if I know what she’s talking about. I say, "I know exactly where you are coming from". She then starts to slowly loom closer and asks me for my credentials. "Have you ever asked Jesus Christ into your life? Have you had full immersion baptism? Have you been baptised in the Holy Spirit?" "I have ticked all those boxes in the past", I say. "Oh so you’re not with doG now then?" No is my answer. "You really need to get back to doG", she says. She’s close now and slowly my personal space is starting to look like it’s going to soon be encroached upon. I’m treading water in the deep end with nobody around. I’m only just over the 5” mark so I start to feel like I'm in way over my head here in more ways than one.

She then begins to give me more background knowledge on her life, telling me her daughter is with a bi-polar guy who she believes is filled with spirits. Spirits that she’s had to bind when visiting, through intercessory prayer. Also saying that her daughter has said the most terrible things to her and equates that to being under Satan’s spell. Well, by this point we’ve long vacated Weirdsville and quickly made our way to Crazytown in my opinion. I’m becoming ever concerned I might be in for another full immersion baptism at her hands if I were to say the wrong thing from her perspective. She asks whether I would like to ask doG back into my life right there and then. I say no as I start looking for the closest ladder and wishing an aquarobics class would interupt proceedings. Or a pool cleaner. Or even a moth so I could say, "look at that!", and make a run for it. After all, she’s also armed with a pool noodle.

She asks if she can pray for me. I counter it with a question, "can you do it without me being here?" She says no. I let her know I’d rather she didn’t. She smiles curtly. By this time I’ve made my way to the ladder and mention I was required to pick up the toddler from the crèche so I had to leave. She assured me, as I was making my exit from the scene, that we would meet again. She asks her final question, why did I think doG had put her there. She also was certain that I would have something wonderful to tell her when meeting again. There were answers I could have given but to what avail when dealing with a person who has clearly had their sense of reality taken away from them. I left caught between empathy for a person trapped in a lie and indignity at having had to endure such an ordeal in a public place.

eclectic
28th August 2009, 03:27 PM
scary stuff. She's obviously not well. And religion just encourages that sort of delusion. I hope you don't meet her again, I understand your torn emotions between empathy and indignation, and in that mentality ANY meeting will be counted as proof of her predictions.

I used to get that sort of openness from people too. Damn my curiosity!

Unsacred Cow
28th August 2009, 04:59 PM
I shall do my best to give you The Tale Of Missus Epistles this evening.

I shall look forward to that.

robertkd
28th August 2009, 07:49 PM
That's interesting but I think you need to put it in prospective

you certainly seem to have a soft spot their for people working on your psyche, lets think of it this way would you have offered the same time of day to a "sales person" working on your psyche trying to exploit you??

I am sorry but after I say

1st) sorry however I am an atheist

2nd) no sorry did you not hear me the first time

3rd) goodbye

It can get nasty after that :rolleyes:

remember they want to find something to engage you with and will keep testing the waters.

then get on with what I need to be doing, you need to consider these people hone in and look for what ever weaknesses they can and damn it some are very good at it.

for instance if someone offers to say a prayer for me that's it, I feel insulted after all I have made my position clear.

She has now laid the bait made you feel slightly guilty hoping that this event will play on your mind and bring you back into the fold. after all the seed has been planted,.... sny chance meeting in the future will be hailed as "planed" won't it,.. :(

Life's Good
28th August 2009, 08:52 PM
I, too, have that curse of engaging people in small conversation and say hello to people in the street. On occasions, I find myself in a situation that I have to exit from, quickly! People that are kooks, or talking about weird stuff, like how they saw the light and can save me from eternal damnation.

My attitude is very simple. If someone is putting me in a situation that I find uncomfortable (which includes conversations) and I have not been able to exit politely, then this is just plain rude. It is a lack of manners and courtesy by the person who is with you. So, I do not owe them anything in the manners stakes.

Generally speaking, our society is polite and most people do not wish to be impolite, even to someone dominating our time and emotions. A lot of sales people use this to push a sale, trying to put you in a situation where it is rude not to buy.

The solution? Go! Walk away, don't apologise or explain. You owe them no courtesy because they have not been to you. I regularly come across mormons or jehovah witnesses in my travels and gave gone beyond this. I just abuse them! They are very rude at trying to engage me to convert to their religion, so they get what they deserve.

It is a valuable life skill I learn in my travels to third world countries. Beggars that swarm to you in the streets will try the most patient of people. So, being loud, rude and aggressive normally drives them away. It is hard at first, but one adjusts. Being tall and reasonably solid definitely helps!

It is dangerous ground, but the best technique I have learnt with some very domineering and persistent customers, is to show that you have a temper. Like, throwing the screwdriver on the ground in apparent frustration and saying you cannot concentrate with constant interruptions! This is definitely not in the handbook, but it works! I discovered it by accident, many years ago and has resolved a few difficult situations. It may not work for everyone, but I add it here only as a talking point. Introducing the hint of aggression often gets people to back off. Highly unethical? Of course! But it is a bluff ONLY. And don't try it on the wrong type of person, it may start a fight!

One of the many joys of dealing with the general public, learnt from the school of hard knocks.

Unsacred Cow
29th August 2009, 05:45 AM
scary stuff. She's obviously not well. And religion just encourages that sort of delusion. I hope you don't meet her again, I understand your torn emotions between empathy and indignation, and in that mentality ANY meeting will be counted as proof of her predictions.

I used to get that sort of openness from people too. Damn my curiosity!

Thank you for your understanding eclectic.

I guess that the openness I get from people comes from my willingness to be open. Despite the apparent dangers it can bring as in the above story, I'm not sure I want to change that aspect of myself. The thing I have found with taking risks with engaging with people is that every now and then it turns up some gold. Sure it takes a lot of digging for but I'd hate to miss the really good stuff.

Unsacred Cow
29th August 2009, 06:34 AM
That's interesting but I think you need to put it in prospective

you certainly seem to have a soft spot their for people working on your psyche, lets think of it this way would you have offered the same time of day to a "sales person" working on your psyche trying to exploit you??


She has now laid the bait made you feel slightly guilty hoping that this event will play on your mind and bring you back into the fold. after all the seed has been planted,.... sny chance meeting in the future will be hailed as "planed" won't it,.. :(

This is interesting in many ways and I appreciate your perspective.

The "soft spot" you have recognised isn't for people working on my psyche as such as far as I'm concerned. I would appreciate it if you would indicate exactly the point in the story that led you to that conclusion. I would like to explore that further as perhaps there is something I'm unable to see about myself in the story that you have identified. But at this point I believe the "soft spot" is for people I recognise as being duped as I once was. I know where that woman's head is at because I've been on her side of it in the past.

No, I wouldn't offer the same time of day to certain sales people and don't (there are some I do need to in the capacity of my work, however). My interest with this particular lady is that I see her as a victim and I feel empathy for her in that respect. In learning more about where believers are coming from I hope to eventually become instrumental in helping them escape and recover. Turning them away won't achieve this.

The deduction you have made here that she has made me feel guilty is also interesting. I searched after I read that and found no emotion of guilt. Again, perhaps it's something about myself I'm blind to. Are you able to pinpoint in my story the moment you think I feel guilty? As far as I'm concerned at this point, I felt a level of self-protective fear and then empathy for the woman and indignant that religious institutions exploit people like this woman and encourage this kind of behaviour.

I’d be interested to hear how others think they may have responded had they been in the same predicament.
I can't help but think you have misunderstood my question as you seem to have offered a critique of my performance. However, I am willing to explore your critique further to perhaps provide some insight. :)

atheist_angel
29th August 2009, 06:57 AM
It sounds like she is filled with the mind of christ...was she american? lol...i'm sorry unsacred cow. it's just that, everyday is see this....is it like that there, too?

Unsacred Cow
29th August 2009, 07:42 AM
It sounds like she is filled with the mind of christ...was she american? lol...i'm sorry unsacred cow. it's just that, everyday is see this....is it like that there, too?

She is definitely filled with something, I fear someone else's excrement. I'm not aware of it being all that common. I have only been atheist for a short time. Most of the theists I have come into contact both when I was a theist and now have mostly been moderate but I have come across exceptions, some of those exceptions being members of my own family.

This particular specimen was not American nor have any others I've come into contact with. The American component you are probably identifying with is that these particular specimens usually inhabit churches that have their genesis in America such as the AOG as I'm aware this particular lady did.

robertkd
29th August 2009, 09:56 AM
indeed I certianly didn't mean to critique you, it was an observation and I see in your latter response there was perhaps reason for engaging her more which wasn't so obvious from your first post. Hence why I considered you had a "soft spot" for her prying into your life and you not disengaging or being more forthright e.g. when she offers to pray for you.

again I tend to not engage strangers to that level hence my response as I have found these sort of people tend to dig for weakness and try and turn these against you, classic and from you post


She asks her final question, why did I think doG had put her there. She also was certain that I would have something wonderful to tell her when meeting again.

implying that "her, you the situation" was destiny or pre ordained if you will, which can be very influential on peoples minds ;)

you are correct the "guilt" was conjecture based on the dialogue and more towards the way these people attempt to plant the seeds of guilt so as to play on your (in the third person sense) psyche. I didn't mean to imply you felt guilty more so she (or the person) wants you to feel guilty.

robertkd
29th August 2009, 05:47 PM
I think it's a good idea to distract, delay, then run as soon as you reckon the god-afflicted won't chase you.

Why? LINKY (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/28/jaycee-dugard-kidnap-garrido) - this person was hearing instructions from god quite clearly.

see evidence, definitely the big dog works in mysterious well more wired ways, suppose he and Fred will get on well in the big house :p

Sir Patrick Crocodile
29th August 2009, 06:34 PM
Full immersion baptism? Is that done with scuba diving suits? Or submarines?

gruber
29th August 2009, 06:44 PM
for a moment there i thought she was gonna hold you under water:eek:

Dave
29th August 2009, 09:24 PM
All I can say is some people get all the good opportunities;)

Unsacred Cow
30th August 2009, 05:52 AM
indeed I certianly didn't mean to critique you, it was an observation and I see in your latter response there was perhaps reason for engaging her more which wasn't so obvious from your first post. Hence why I considered you had a "soft spot" for her prying into your life and you not disengaging or being more forthright e.g. when she offers to pray for you.

again I tend to not engage strangers to that level hence my response as I have found these sort of people tend to dig for weakness and try and turn these against you, classic and from you post


implying that "her, you the situation" was destiny or pre ordained if you will[/size][/font], which can be very influential on peoples minds ;)

you are correct the "guilt" was conjecture based on the dialogue and more towards the way these people attempt to plant the seeds of guilt so as to play on your (in the third person sense) psyche. I didn't mean to imply you felt guilty more so she (or the person) wants you to feel guilty.

Thanks robertkd for redefining that for me.

You are right, they do dig for weaknesses and try to turn them against the person they are conversing with. Had I been on dry land and perhaps with the safety of numbers I would have asked her about one of her admitted weaknesses in her back injury. I would have asked why her god couldn't sort that out for her. There were also other questions I would have felt more comfortable asking her if not quite literally in a vulnerable position.

Admittedly, after this little episode I did have to go away and give myself a little refresher in a reasoning lesson, with the help of a few friends. ;)

I believe you are right again in that she wanted me to feel guilty, but I have learnt (partly as a result of healing myself of body image issues) that these techniques designed to manipulate one into believing you are a peg below can only stick if one lets it. I'm very careful these days as to what I allow people to "stick" on me.

I appreciate your honest response. :)

Unsacred Cow
30th August 2009, 06:04 AM
Full immersion baptism? Is that done with scuba diving suits? Or submarines?

:D No, unfortunately. Perhaps if this were the case I would atleast have taken away something useful from the experience in a scuba diving lesson or piloting a submarine.

You'll find information here on baptism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism

And here is some footage of one
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