Saved by faith, not by works

[davo]

PZ reported it on his blog, George Sodini, walked into an LA Fitness Center near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and opened fire. Early reports say he killed three women and injured up to 15, including his ex-girlfriend. He then turned the gun on himself.

His online diary (http://georgesodini.com/20090804.htm)'s last entry contains :

Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.

This is a really sad thing, I don't want to overplay this line, the fellow was crazy .. but sheesh.

[davo]

definitely, as mentioned the fellow was crazy, but the justification of faith over works is what got me ... he was told that by a church pastor.

[Fearless]

A very good friend of mine is a mother of 4 kids. Her eldest son who was religious developed a serious and concerning case of schizophrenia (smoking dope we believe). When he had his bad turns he (truthfully) believed he was jebus. He would typically bail his sister up in a corner and verbally abuse her saying she was evil and will go to hell for her sins (this scarred her terribly). She said she often feared for her life when he did this as he would become aggressive. One occasion he stood in the middle of a busy road and refused to move saying that he cannot be struck as he was the son of christ. It took a Police team to take him down that night. Mental illness can be a serious and concerning issue, especially when religion is twisted up in the mix.

------

I don't normally post images of people I know personally but in this instance I think it's appropriate...

The image below is of a guy I used to work with (I have obscured his idenitity with a pleasing young lass). I have talked about him before but in a nutshell he quit working to pursue a life as a fully fledged mormon. This is an image taken only a few weeks ago when he travelled to USA on a pilgrimage of discovery or something and seemed to get distracted by a gunhold of sorts in his travels.

I don't believe he would go burko but considering he was in the USA on a spiritual induction it bemuses me to see him post this image. It was in jest with the caption "i'll be back" but I took a little offence at the hypocrisy and made a little joke along the lines of "Is that a secret back room of the Temple?" given he was visiting a significant mormon temple in Utah for a few days. I joked about it then but I am wickedly curious where he was at the time :p he did not reply to my question for some odd reason.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy but this is another instance of walking the walk... you are either on that side of the line or the other... try not to confuse things or I will openly brandish the hypocrit fist at you!

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6199/mormon2.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/mormon2.jpg/)

[Fearless]

Update: The guy above that I mentioned is now about to sit a 'Firearms Safety Course"... I sent him a message asking him if the LDS approve of that sort of thing... I am now waiting for a response. Anyone want to put a wager on the likely outcome?...

- Ignore me :rolleyes:
- Get annoyed and back himself up with some form of loose reasoning. :confused:
- Agree with me and turn his back on his gun fixation :eek:
- Deny relevance from one thing to another. :mad:

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Mental illness, plus religion, is always far worse than mental illness alone.

I can't exactly leave the blame for this one with churches, just the "folk religion" that sort-of floats around in Western culture.

God was just a part of a bigger delusion.Good point. Religion is already a mental illness as it is - having two mental illnesses at the same time is not a good thing...

[Fearless]

Wow, he replied already (sorry wager option gone.... this was his reply.

It's for sport. Skeet/DTL shooting. The LDS view it the same as everyone else... Each to their own! Just don't use it to kill someone!

so yeah I guess:

- Deny relevance from one thing to another.

Was the closest outcome.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Heck - And these theists say that atheists don't get morality if they don't follow a bloody religious book! Well I wonder who's doing the shooting etc. :rolleyes:

And on a side note - perhaps Jesus was a schizophrenic?

[Fearless]

I wonder if David Koresh thought the same way about guns... See where it got him!

[Fearless]

What exactly do you mean by that?

David Koresh of "The Branch Davidian Seventh Day Adventists" (The Branch for short) (A Protestant sect) had a stock pile of guns that I think he might have been dealing in at some stage, it was used by the ATF and FBI as justification for the fatal raids that was to be known as the Waco Seige.

He ended up dying from gunshot wounds.

It is a very interesting event to read about.

Another mate of mine posted a message to him after I made my point

....please, don't take up bowling.....

LOL!

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

David Koresh of "The Branch Davidian Seventh Day Adventists" (The Branch for short) (A Protestant sect) had a stock pile of guns that I think he might have been dealing in at some stage, it was used by the ATF and FBI for the fatal raids that was to be known as the Waco Seige.

He ended up dying from gunshot wounds.

It is a very interesting event to read about.
Gee the fact that he was religious AND that he had guns is quite scary...

Another mate of mine posted a message to him after I made my point


LOL!I was thinking shotput...

[Fearless]

Gee the fact that he was religious AND that he had guns is quite scary...
He was an absolute nutcase, I just feel sorry for the people he managed to brainwash and who got killed over it all.

I was thinking shotput...
I think he was referencing 'Bowling For Collumbine' but I could be wrong.

[Elbert]

This is a really sad thing, I don't want to overplay this line, the fellow was crazy .. but sheesh.
I'm not so sure he was a nut case, you see, he also said this: "Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid."
That is a totally logical statement -- the guy wasn't really crazy.... just a bit too logical.

[atheist_angel]

Thanks for reminding us why we all became atheists.
Those people scare the living daylights out of me. For me, it was my rabbi. He is truly delusional.

[Fearless]

Thanks for reminding us why we all became atheists.
I have always been an Atheist ;)

[atheist_angel]

I have always been an Atheist ;)yeah...that's what most of us in america would call, culture shock.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I have always been an Atheist ;)We're born atheists. We'll die as atheists. The nonexistent cannot believe in the nonexistent.

Thanks for reminding us why we all became atheists.
Those people scare the living daylights out of me. For me, it was my rabbi. He is truly delusional.<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BhvebBVRtas&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BhvebBVRtas&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[atheist_angel]

Now those Hasidic Jews have some really strange ideas.

[Cosmic Teapot]

We're born atheists. We'll die as atheists. The nonexistent cannot believe in the nonexistent.

Damn, I knew I should've copyrighted that (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showpost.php?p=28080&postcount=26) line. ;)

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Damn, I knew I should've copyrighted that line. ;)
Allow me:We're born atheists. We'll die as atheists. The nonexistent cannot believe in the nonexistent.
Copyright © Crocodile 2009

[Cosmic Teapot]

Allow me:

Talk to my IP (http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/) lawyers.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Talk to my IP (http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/) lawyers.I have the best lawyer in the galaxy. ;)

[Cosmic Teapot]

I have the best lawyer in the galaxy. ;)

Underlining and blue text, make a linky not.
If I can assume that your lawyer is Yahweh, the original Jew, I assert that he exists in the same realm of existence as your link to him.
Game, set and match.
Atheist 1
Other Atheist 0

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Underlining and blue text, make a linky not.
If I can assume that your lawyer is Yahweh, the original Jew, I assert that he exists in the same realm of existence as your link to him.
Game, set and match.
Atheist 1
Other Atheist 0It is the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Using extremely super ultra advanced creationist techniques I can prove the existence of His Noodly Appendage if you want.