Atheist signs to go on Tasmanian buses!

[David Nicholls]

Wonderful News
Atheist signs to go on Tasmanian buses!


5 August 09

The Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc and Metro Tasmania Pty Ltd have today (4 August 09) reached agreement in conciliation before the office of the Anti-Discrimination Commissioner that the advertisements setting out “Atheism – Celebrate reason!” may be seen on Metro buses in Tasmania in 2010

The negotiations and terms of the agreement are confidential.

President of the AFA, David Nicholls said; “This is a great day for freedom of expression in Tasmania. It is a ‘sign’ of the times.”

Contact details:

David Nicholls
President
Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc
PMB 6
MAITLAND SA 5573

Phone: (08) 8835 2269

E-Mail: info@atheistfoundation.org.au
Website: http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au
Convention: http://www.atheistconvention.org.au

[boxsey]

WoOt!

[Protium]

Phew!.... next :)

[davo]

love the pun :) well done all for supporting all non-believers

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Well done
WLB

[Vonnie]

The email regarding the AFA media relese just hit my Inbox. Yeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhaaaaaa! <happy dance!>

Well done - particularly to David and Lee - and to everyone who worked towards this amazing achievement!

:D :D :D

Vonnie

[SinisterDexter]

Magnificent work. Now to the mainland!

[TimB]

Well done - what a happy way to start the day!

I'd never realised Atheists were soooo scary to religious folk. Can't be very confident about their claims if they feel threatened by "Atheism - Celebrate reason"!!!!

[OzAtheist]

Great to see. So you need donations now to fund this?

[David Nicholls]

Good Folk,

Thanks for your words of appreciation and kind thoughts. It’s been a long slog and there is still a ways to go with the mainland states.

Details of how to donate to the bus advertising campaign are below. Initially we will need funding for Tasmania and later, we anticipate, for mainland Australia. :)

Please state name and that it is for the Bus Campaign

David

Cheque/money order made payable to:
Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc
Private Mail Bag 6
MAITLAND S.A. 5573

Or:

DIRECT DEBIT to
Commonwealth Bank
BSB Number 065503
Account Number 10120389

The Mercury today. http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2009/08/06/89125_tasmania-news.html

[Simon Gardner (UK)]

Just picked this up from themercury.com.au. Good news!

[boxsey]

Donation made. Its not a lot, but hope it helps. I labled it "BUS" so hopefully that helps you reconcile your statements.

[two dogs]

...
Details of how to donate to the bus advertising campaign are below. Initially we will need funding for Tasmania and later, we anticipate, for mainland Australia. :)

Please state name and that it is for the Bus Campaign
...

Direct Debit done, but I couldn't fit my name and "Bus Campaign" in the 18 characters allowed by my internet banking site for the "Payee Reference" field, so I abbreviated it to "B/C".

Cheers,
___Julian

[Crocodile]

YES! Now that's what I call a RIDE!

Now if we can get the rest of Australia to be more accepting. Pity I live in NSW :(

[davo]

Just made my donation bank transfer, full name and BUS for reference.

Well done all

[Ramen]

DIRECT DEBIT to
Commonwealth Bank
BSB Number 065503
Account Number 10120389


Excellent! Done everyone!
Will donate now.
I guess you mean DIRECT DEPOSIT.
Ramen

[eclectic]

hooray! well done!!!

[AWarGuy]

Bring the ads to SA and Vic!!!!

[GUDLUSS]

Yes! Now our discriminatory, kitten-eating, Satan-worshipping Communist/Nazi regime is coming top fruition! Muwahahahahahaaa!
Well done on the ads and live in hope of ads in Victoria :)

[DanDare]

Yes! Now our discriminatory, kitten-eating, Satan-worshipping Communist/Nazi regime is coming top fruition! Muwahahahahahaaa!
Well done on the ads and live in hope of ads in Victoria :)
While I wait for Queensland to join the 19th....I mean 21st C. Its ok, Vic can go second. I bet Qld gets to go last. :(

Still, excellent result in Tas. http://richarddawkins.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_cheers.gif

(borrowed the smiley from richarddawkins.net for this special occasion)

[youngmoigle]

Make sure there are no loopholes in the contract.

http://iowaindependent.com/18293/acknowledging-existence-of-atheists-is-too-offensive-for-des-moines
After a wave of complaints, Des Moines Area Regional Transit buses will no longer display advertisements that acknowledge the existence of atheists in Iowa.

The ads, which said, “Don’t believe in God? You are not alone,” first went up on buses Saturday and were removed by Tuesday.

Gov. Chet Culver said he was “disturbed” by the ads.

[GUDLUSS]

He deferred questions of whether the group deserves the same free speech rights as Christian organizations to advertise on the buses to the Iowa Attorney General.
Sounds like the Iowan Stephen Conroy, with all the dodging of simple questions.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Make sure there are no loopholes in the contract.

http://iowaindependent.com/18293/acknowledging-existence-of-atheists-is-too-offensive-for-des-moines
Gov. Chet Culver said he was “disturbed” by the ads.
Wow, sounds like he's got enough backbone and adaptability to govern a state, huh?

If a bus sign disturbs him, WTF will a natural disaster do?

[Crocodile]

Gov. Chet Culver is disturbed alright! Very disturbed.

[GodwinGrey]

Good and well done and what a ripper. which will be the next state to fall? WA?

[Atrax Robustus]

Good and well done and what a ripper. which will be the next state to fall? WA?

Surely the nation's capital is a prime objective - but buses with these signs winding their way through the City of Churches promises a real sense of appeal!

[Crocodile]

Surely the nation's capital is a prime objective - but buses with these signs winding their way through the City of Churches promises a real sense of appeal!

We'll need a hell of a lot of buses if we're gonna succeed in this retarded city!

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

We'll need a hell of a lot of buses if we're gonna succeed in this retarded city!
With all due respect, maybe the signs need to go on the short buses, then.

[SinisterDexter]

It's payday tomorrow, so I intend to donate soon.

I actually think, cheesy as it is, that we may get press coverage if the next state was SA because of the "City of Churches" tag. It's a neat headline after all.

[Crocodile]

I actually think, cheesy as it is, that we may get press coverage if the next state was SA because of the "City of Churches" tag. It's a neat headline after all.
Ah yes "Atheists cause havoc and mayhem in City of Churches!"

[GenericBox]

Problem is, you have to look at it from a journalists pov. Is it news worthy right now. Or better yet, will it be newsworthy when it happens. And not newsworthy as in interesting, but newsworthy as in relation to what else is happening in the news at that time.

Thats been my impression anyway.

And not to be uncharacteristicly pesimistic, but a good headline on our part (or even possible part of the nature of the article) does not mean the story will be run. AFA will need to send a media release, with a headline perhaps not brilliant, but one that is eye-popping enough to attract a journalists interest, who may decide to pick up the story and a headline will develop from there.

The good thing though with a bus advertising launch is that there are plenty of photo opportunities AFA could set up, and I've been told journo's love a good photo op.

[Cosmic Teapot]

I don't want to piss in anyone's cornflakes but in my opinion, slogans like "Atheism - Celebrate Reason" tend to reinforce the fundies contention that atheism is a belief system that competes with religion. They see "reason', "rationality" and "logic" as "atheistic dogma", along with anything scientific.
I applaud the efforts of everyone involved but I suspect that the slogan will be used as a weapon against us at some point.
I liked the signs on the London buses.

*waits for sledging*

[TimB]

Whatever slogan goes up will have its detrators. I reckon "Atheism - Celebrate Reason" is good because it's all positive.

Too often atheists just attack religious beliefs rather than promoting the positives of Atheism. Just being negative about religion (rather than positive about atheism) pushes away the "types who are only religious out of loyalty to their tribe" and helps keep the conversation in two camps only ie "non-religious" and "evangelical fundy nuts" and alienates the "not so religious" and "quiet atheist I'd rather mind my own business types".

Rant mode off.

Might have to sacrifice some beer money to the atheist bus ad doG.

[Chasly]

I agree Tim.

Pesonally I am not a fan of the London slogan where they say "There is probably no god....."

The word "Probably" engenders a seed of doubt. Do the unenlightened realise that "Probably" means 99.999999999999999999%? Or for all practical purposes 100%

My guess is that those 'not yet in the know' assign a value of around 50% to the word "Probably" so it simply perpetuates the myth in my opinion.

[youngmoigle]

I think "probably" is a good enough word to use. The campaigns are not designed to convert religious people, but to remind the closet atheists that they are not alone and maybe it is time to stand up and be counted.

[Cosmic Teapot]

How about "Atheism - Only one life to live. Go live yours.".
Still positive but doesn't seem so dogmatic.
*shrugs*

[Crocodile]

Yep - I like that one.

[GodwinGrey]

But what about bumper stickers? or NO FISH

[Seamus]

Ah yes "Atheists cause havoc and mayhem in City of Churches!"


Got news for you guys;we only call ourselves that because we have a great sense of irony. (we are also Australia's bizarre murder capital)


CONTEXT:It was only last week that some street preachers were arrested in Rundle Mall for being annoying twats. (disturbing the peace;they were insulting the shoppers and disrupting TRADE)) --AND a poll taken shortly after showed 69% effectively said it served' em bloody well right.

I call that a good start. I'm no hoping the council will pass a by law allowing us to shoot them.

[GodwinGrey]

Shooting sounds a bit harsh, i'm sure they'd prefer crucifixtion

[SinisterDexter]

I thnk they should be incarcerated and preached at 24/7.

[Crocodile]

Got news for you guys;we only call ourselves that because we have a great sense of irony. (we are also Australia's bizarre murder capital)


CONTEXT:It was only last week that some street preachers were arrested in Rundle Mall for being annoying twats. (disturbing the peace;they were insulting the shoppers and disrupting TRADE)) --AND a poll taken shortly after showed 69% effectively said it served' em bloody well right.

I call that a good start. I'm no hoping the council will pass a by law allowing us to shoot them.

Did I read that correctly? Disturbing the peace? Well at least the law enforcement realize that religion isn't peaceful and that religion sucks... For now...

[Crocodile]

Shooting sounds a bit harsh, i'm sure they'd prefer crucifixtion

I think crucifixion is also a little too harsh. How about lock them up in 100% concrete room with no windows and a limited supply of dead rats for food. Oh yes and not very clean water.

That'll teach those bloody bastards. Note to the Christians: You and your church shouldn't get to be millionaires whilst others have nothing at all. They're your bloody rules either stick with them or destroy the fucking church.

Now let's see if they can pick up odor of chloroform ;)

[Cosmic Teapot]

I think crucifixion is also a little too harsh. How about lock them up in 100% concrete room with no windows and a limited supply of dead rats for food. Oh yes and not very clean water.



I'm oldschool; throw 'em to the lions.

[Crocodile]

Yeah. What you said.

<object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/-cgfzaCja2c&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/-cgfzaCja2c&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x000000&color2=0x000000&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>

[gruber]

Its an outrage that the "freedom of speech" for atheists was through a lawsuit


That'll teach those bloody bastards. Note to the Christians: You and your church shouldn't get to be millionaires whilst others have nothing at all. They're your bloody rules either stick with them or destroy the fucking church.


The church has well over millions of dollars, try somewhere around the billions but then again it would be difficult to determine exactly how much there networth is if you include all those priceless relics they stole from the middile east and their stocks and corporate assets

[Crocodile]

Its an outrage that the "freedom of speech" for atheists was through a lawsuit



The church has well over millions of dollars, try somewhere around the billions but then again it would be difficult to determine exactly how much there networth is if you include all those priceless relics they stole from the middile east and their stocks and corporate assets
I agree. I reckon that the church are richer than all of the Arab oil sheikhs, private Swiss banks and Bill Gates combined!

Why do people pay attention to things like "how evil Microsoft is" when they really should first pay attention to the most obviously evil thing? Microsoft's "evilness" is nothing compared to the bloody Church and Mosque and other religious cult organizations!

Apparently they also evade taxes (although when the goddamn Church does this it is fine but when others do it it is called "tax evasion")

I wonder if we won (I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't thanks to Kevin Rudd (Gluteus maximus))

[SinisterDexter]

Oh, and don't forget Disney! Disney is evil too!

[Robert Webb]

I don't want to piss in anyone's cornflakes but in my opinion, slogans like "Atheism - Celebrate Reason" tend to reinforce the fundies contention that atheism is a belief system that competes with religion. They see "reason', "rationality" and "logic" as "atheistic dogma", along with anything scientific.

Hey, is that Anthony? Or one of the other Cosmic Tea Party crowd?

Thought I should let you know that it's MY cornflakes you're pissing in, as I was the one who came up with that slogan! (Notoriety seems to have escaped me so far, but hopefully the cheque's in the mail! :p). But that's OK, feel free to provide a critique.

The slogans I'd seen all seemed to negative, too dry, or too wordy. I wanted one with a positive spin. Something that sounded welcoming. And as few words as possible, which means bigger letters for easy readability from a distance, and easy to read if the bus is fast too.

I think atheism has a bad image, so wanted something a bit more joyous. I was actually intending to avoid anything too scientific-sounding, so it's a pity you got that out of it. Maybe to an atheist the word "reason" has more sciencey connotations to it though? I definitely wanted to avoid the word "evidence" which was in the original planned slogan.

I imagine fundies will interpret anything we write as dogmatic and religious. That's OK, the campaign is not really aimed at them.

I applaud the efforts of everyone involved but I suspect that the slogan will be used as a weapon against us at some point.Ha, yes I suspect so. Any slogan will be. I already saw "Christianity - celebrate reason" suggested as a come back. My point is that we arrive at atheism via reason, whereas you don't arrive at Christianity that way. It's more to do with trusting words of authority and being told that doubt is a weakness. Pretty much the opposite of reason.

I liked the signs on the London buses.That one's also been turned against them in the form "There probably IS a god. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life".

I thought the British slogan was a bit too fence-sitting. Probably? As atheists we know that they probably mean that it's extremely probable, ie keeping an open mind as is the scientific way, but theists who read it probably just interpret it as a wishy-washy uncertain-sounding statement. And few Christians spend their days "worrying" because there's a god! That's a bit of a straw man that atheists put up.

Anyway, good to hear from you :) Also good to see that the campaign is going ahead, even if it is only in Tassie for now. And of course, also good to see that they're using my slogan! :rolleyes:

Rob.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Welcome aboard, Rob.

Any chance of an intro thread up at "Welcome New Members"? We'd love to know more about you. Your slogan's pretty good in my book.

Black
Moderator and resident goat

[DaveMcRae]

I must admit Robert, I do like your slogan the best, for the brevity and the reasons you said - well done.

The others are not bad either, I wouldn't mind seeing any of them.

[David Nicholls]

Robert Webb,

There seems to be some confusion as to who came up with the phrase, “Atheism – Celebrate Reason!”

From memory it was an evolutionary process beginning with, I think, “Atheism – Because there is no credible evidence"

After an immense amount of discussion with many people, I informed the AFA Committee of Management on 2 November 2008 that’ “Atheism – Celebrate Reason!” was the preferred slogan.

Others considered around that time were:

“Cherish evidence, celebrate reason?”

“Atheism celebrate reason – sleep in on Sunday Mornings”

For the sake of accurate history, have you some documentation which is dated before 2 November 2008 showing “Atheism – Celebrate Reason!” was your total/part invention.

David

[Robert Webb]

There seems to be some confusion as to who came up with the phrase, “Atheism – Celebrate Reason!”

From memory it was an evolutionary process beginning with, I think, “Atheism – Because there is no credible evidence"

It was more of a creationist process... kidding!! My first version was "Celebrate reason - become an atheist". I think the "become an atheist" part was adopted from someone else's suggestion, but someone didn't like the fact that it was telling people what to do and saw it as dogmatic (I think it may have been you actually). So I changed it to "Atheism - celebrate reason!", at which point I guess the only adopted part remaining was the word "atheism". Well, I guess all three words were already part of the English language ;)

Others considered around that time were:

“Cherish evidence, celebrate reason?”

“Atheism celebrate reason – sleep in on Sunday Mornings”From memory, both of these were adapted from mine.

For the sake of accurate history, have you some documentation which is dated before 2 November 2008 showing “Atheism – Celebrate Reason!” was your total/part invention.Ah, show me the evidence! :) Fair enough. Why Nov 2 2008 though? It's my birthday, but that doesn't seem relevant. :rolleyes: I first suggested the original version on Nov 4 2008, on the Melbourne Atheists meetup mailing list. Not sure where that's archived if anywhere, although I have a copy of the email which I could forward.

The next day, Nov 5 I posted a similar email to the Melbourne Atheists meetup forum, which can be found here:

http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Atheists/messages/boards/thread/5656864/0#22650042

Not sure if you need to be a member to view that. You'll see my slogan listed in the post before mine as well, by Royston Wilding, who had already seen my suggestion on the mailing list.

So that was the original version "Celebrate reason, become an atheist", first posted Nov 4. Not sure where the paper trail went after that. It may have actually been on the phone to you that you mentioned not liking "become an atheist" so I suggested simply "Atheism - celebrate reason!". Looking at that forum, it jumps ahead to Nov 26 where you say that "Atheism - celebrate reason!" has been rejected.

Sooo, did that help with historical accuracy? I wouldn't say my slogan evolved from "Atheism – Because there is no credible evidence", except in the sense that I didn't like that one and wanted to think of something better before it was too late! :p

Hey, wouldn't it be great to get the atheist buses on the streets in time for Melbourne's atheist convention next year! I guess that's not likely to happen :(

Rob.

[David Nicholls]

RW

Why Nov 2 2008 though? Because that is the earliest record of the slogan, I can find which precedes your references, and your slogan by three days and is still not: “Atheism – Celebrate Reason!” It was Nov 5 2008, according to the link you provided where you were still suggesting : "Celebrate reason! Become an atheist". And if you did invent it why were you still promoting another slogan?

I enter everything in a log for AFA Committee Meetings. Here is the entry. This can be verified with AFA members who may keep the log.

2 November 08 Media Release about campaign to place slogans on buses and a call for donations. Initial slogan - Atheism – because there is no credible evidence. After viewing response on the web and received emails, have chosen a final ditty that has the most acceptance. Atheism – Celebrate reason! I think we should run with it.

So, for historical accuracy Rob, verification of inventing the slogan before that date is required. :)

Can you imagine how the Bible might have changed over tens of tens of years and not just one year? Interesting, no!

David

[Robert Webb]

Because that is the earliest record of the slogan, I can find which precedes your references, and your slogan by three days and is still not: “Atheism – Celebrate Reason!” It was Nov 5 2008, according to the link you provided where you were still suggesting : "Celebrate reason! Become an atheist". And if you did invent it why were you still promoting another slogan?

I enter everything in a log for AFA Committee Meetings. Here is the entry. This can be verified with AFA members who may keep the log.

2 November 08 Media Release about campaign to place slogans on buses and a call for donations. Initial slogan - Atheism – because there is no credible evidence. After viewing response on the web and received emails, have chosen a final ditty that has the most acceptance. Atheism – Celebrate reason! I think we should run with it.

Ha, well this is bizarre indeed. I wonder if the part from "After viewing" onwards was added at a later date, especially since this was the initial media release and on the same day you had already changed the slogan due to feedback??

I first suggested the original version of the slogan in an email to the Melbourne Atheists mailing list on 4 Nov 08, so here it is:

> Give Reason a chance …
> Join us at Melbourne Atheists.

I like this direction, and agree with the straight-forward approach.

Too many of us want to see something really controversial, but I think
that approach just makes us look negative and intollerant.
Furthermore, won't the first atheist slogan ever generate controversy
anyway? If news reports about people complaining, and viewers can
clearly see that the message is NOT offensive, then that makes the
theists complaining look intollerant and is a win for us.

> its got an element approaching celebration in its feel

I'd really like to see the slogan be celebratory and inviting, which
is why I complained about the original one being so cold and dull.
But this slogan could still be more celebratory. Why not make it
explicit:

"Celebrate reason!
Become an atheist"

Rob.
So it looks like someone used the word "celebration" and I incorporated it into a slogan. That was the first time anyone saw that slogan, Nov 4.

Have a look at your own posts here:

http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Atheists/messages/boards/thread/5711445/0#22884440

You announced on Nov 3 that the slogan you would be using was "Atheism – Because there is no credible evidence". I think that's what prompted the discussion on the Melbourne Atheists mailing list and my suggestions. On Nov 5 Royston Wilding asked you if the slogan was settled on, and you replied "I have explained the reasons for the AFA bus slogan to many people and am willing to do so at any place and time". So it seems you were still only considering the original slogan at that point. The next post is Nov 13, when you first mention my slogan "Atheism - celebrate reason!".

Do you have a record of our phone conversation? You rang me to see if I minded you using the slogan. I don't know what date that was, but must have been after Nov 5 and before Nov 13.

I don't think you'll find any reference on the internet to my slogan existing before Nov 4.

Rob.

[David Nicholls]

Good folk,

The Convention is keeping me rather busy so I do not have time to investigate this further.

I know at around the time being discussed I did place a post up somewhere, maybe on the old AFA Forum explaining the genesis of the slogan, “Atheism – Celebrate Reason!”

It might have had ‘genesis’, ‘origins’, ‘etymology’, or ‘epistemology ’in the title of the thread or the body of the message.

If someone could find it, it would save a whole lot of guesswork.

David

[Chrys Stevenson]

Good folk,

The Convention is keeping me rather busy so I do not have time to investigate this further.

I know at around the time being discussed I did place a post up somewhere, maybe on the old AFA Forum explaining the genesis of the slogan, “Atheism – Celebrate Reason!”

It might have had ‘genesis’, ‘origins’, ‘etymology’, or ‘epistemology ’in the title of the thread or the body of the message.

If someone could find it, it would save a whole lot of guesswork.

David

Does it really matter whose idea it was? It seems to me that the idea 'evolved' out of suggestions from several sources and if both David and Robert would accept that, there would be no need to waste time on tracking down something which, ultimately, doesn't matter to anyone. Let's keep our eye on the prize, guys. The important thing is that the message is good, we have permission to put it on the buses, and the atheist cause will be served - isn't that enough? We are all on the same team here, y'know.

[Robert Webb]

I know at around the time being discussed I did place a post up somewhere, maybe on the old AFA Forum explaining the genesis of the slogan, “Atheism – Celebrate Reason!”

It might have had ‘genesis’, ‘origins’, ‘etymology’, or ‘epistemology ’in the title of the thread or the body of the message.

If someone could find it, it would save a whole lot of guesswork.
I had a quick look, but couldn't find anything. I did a search, but there are only two posts from you containing "celebrate reason" from more than 6 months ago, and neither says how it came about.

Does it really matter whose idea it was?
Agreed, and I'm sure David has more important things to spend his time on. Guess I just wanted my small claim-to-fame in the atheist world acknowledged. I wasn't looking for a debate or to take up anyone's time, as I wasn't expecting David to question it. He did ring me to ask if I minded them using it after all. But it seems to have become like a murder mystery that needs solving, which also has its appeal, but maybe isn't the best use of time.

Rob.

[Chrys Stevenson]

Battling over who came up with a two word slogan ennobles neither of you. I hope neither of you will waste any more time on this nonsense and get back to devoting your considerable talents towards promoting the Convention - which should be the focus of all of us at the moment - not internecine squabbling.

[Robert Webb]

Battling over who came up with a two word slogan ennobles neither of you. I hope neither of you will waste any more time on this nonsense and get back to devoting your considerable talents towards promoting the Convention - which should be the focus of all of us at the moment - not internecine squabbling.
I basically agreed with you in my last post, and indicated that there had never been any intention to start a debate anyway, since I didn't expect the matter to be questioned, so I'm not sure why you're now repeating your earlier complaint with greater force and anger.

David, I hope you did not see our earlier discussion as "squabbling". I didn't see it that way. And as per previous post, don't worry about this for now, you have more important things to do with your time.

Rob.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Battling over who came up with a two word slogan ennobles neither of you. I hope neither of you will waste any more time on this nonsense and get back to devoting your considerable talents towards promoting the Convention - which should be the focus of all of us at the moment - not internecine squabbling.
Pedant Mode = "On":

"Internecine" does not mean "insider fighting", but "battling until both are dead".

Makes one think, doesn't it?

[Robert Webb]

Pedant Mode = "On":

"Internecine" does not mean "insider fighting", but "battling until both are dead".

Makes one think, doesn't it?
I didn't even know the word, but looking it up, it seems to mean both. From http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/internecine:

1 : marked by slaughter : deadly (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deadly); especially : mutually destructive
2 : of, relating to, or involving conflict within a group <bitter internecine feuds>I guess it has two meanings, like "theory" :)

Rob.

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

@Rob: I recommend the late Fritz Spiegl's "Contradictionary (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Contradictionary/Fritz-Spiegl/e/9781856264846)" as a source of antidotes for ambiguity and folk-wisdom.

[Protium]

Just found this Postit note from a while back... ;)

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd234/ProtiumTheHeathen/atheism-protes.png

[Crocodile]

Didn't you have color digital cameras back then?

[Protium]

Didn't you have color digital cameras back then?
well.... no... actually!

[Robert Webb]

Ha, I actually did laugh out loud when I saw your post-it note (although I avoid saying "lol" at all costs!). I hope this isn't turning into a "No, I'm Spartacus" situation!

Now get back to work before Kristy gets grumpy!

Rob.

[Crocodile]

well.... no... actually!Oh yeah that's right. You had Fred Flintstone style cameras where the little bird would chisel out the picture after it saw it right? What resolution? 500 megapixels?

[Robert Webb]

500 megapixels?
I saw a camera advertised once as having 3 million megapixels. Ha, that was pretty funny.

Rob.

[Crocodile]

Has to be a Chinese camera. The ones with practically unreadable manuals.

[kencooke]

Did they have post-it notes back then?

[Crocodile]

They probably had stone tablets with touch screens on them.

[AWarGuy]

Has the signs reached the mainland yet?
If not bloody hurry up :D

[Crocodile]

I wanna see some in NSW as well. Have they gone there yet?

[Caio]

Fantastic, let the uprising begin! On a less tyrannical note I think it’s a good move, especially to get the atheism word out there a bit more, there seems to be too much of a stigma attached to it. Hopefully this will bring more understanding about what it actually is and what it isn’t…but it will undoubtedly bring reprisals from religious organizations but I expect were used to that by now :D