the virgin mary and god

[gruber]

Now this question is very simple, from what ive gathered from christian stories about god impregnanting mary i have had a quetsion arise and also may riase concerns about who the christians say is the lord of the universe and my quesiton is this...

Is god a rapist for impregnating a woman without her even knowing or giving consent?

[Brad]

Even the Christians tie themselves up in knots with this one. All down to free will v predestination etc. The fact that God could have been a rapist was actually mentioned in the thread 'Could Mary have said no?' (Post 51 in this thread http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/theology/22-could-mary-have-said-no-6.html):

Originally Posted by thelowlyfisherman http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.true2ourselves.com/forum/theology/22-could-mary-have-said-no-6.html#post15740)
To believe Mary had no choice or say and that she didn't accept completely of her own free will is to believe that God is a rapist

I was astonished that a Christian would even type that, let alone think it.

[tandytripper]

I have more often than not, found that in "debate" (term used loosely) with xians, that their disclaimer is that angel gabriel visited her and told her it was going to happen. TOLD HER.. didn't ask if it was ok with her. To me, that does not show in any way that mary actually consented to it, so as far as I am concerned it reads as rape and too as she was also allegedly married to joseph, didn't god break one of his own commandments too? the whole coveting they neighbours wife?

bible god DOES have a do as I say not as I do mentality so it appears he can rape, murder..etc etc all he wants and stupid knobs still idolise him...

hmm... the irony.

[Kid]

Interesting post, Gruber...
of course, what Mary wanted was irrelevant; women's opinions in those days didn't count--they were merely 'empty vessels' to be filled with the holy male sperm.

Now, does god have a willy?
If Adam was created in god's image, and Adam had a willy, then that must mean god had a willy too, or else how would anyone know god was a man? or male?

So god must have had a willy; did he use it to impregnate Mary?
No...then how was it done? How was the Y chromosome delivered in order to make a male baby Jeebus?

If god didn't use his willy to bring forth Our Lord, then why does he have a willy? If he doesn't have a willy, then why do we call him, "Him"?
Does he have balls, this all-mighty dog?

Oh, such questions to ponder; it must surely take up a lot of thinking power for Xians to work this all out.

But then, a lot of Xians claim that Jesus IS god, so therefore he must have bonked his own mother...

the mysteries are endless; no wonder Xianity has been around for a long time. they need all these centuries to work out all the excuses for their silly god's insane behaviour.

[eccles]

Indiscrete man: Excuse me?
Mother: Yes?
Indiscrete man: Are you a virgin?
Mother: I beg your pardon?
Indiscrete man: Well, if it's not a personal question, are you a virgin?
Mother: "If it's not a personal question"?! How much more personal can you get? Now, piss off!
Crowd: Yes...yeah...much worse. Definitely. Definitely. Ooh!

"Monty Python's Life of Brian"

[SchizoDeluxe]

Why can't they just accept the idea that Mary and Joseph did the dirty monkey and move on?

[Seamus]

Why can't they just accept the idea that Mary and Joseph did the dirty monkey and move on?

What a fragrant euphenism. :D

Here we say 'rooted'

Victoria has a nice one ;" had a naughty"

[TÐöer]

yes it's pretty sick. Do not know how they jump to the conclusion that Marry was still a virgin. I don't suppose there are any pages in the bible that goes... " and behold, when the apostle Salmah, looked at her... she was intact"

[gruber]

i saw a doco a while back based on a 13 yr old girl that could have been Mary and they also provided a name of a roman soldier who could have been the one who raped her.

But when are christians gonna relise that a woman of the age they portray Mary to be in all their pictures to actually be a virgin 2000 yrs ago in a time were the instant you turned 13 you get sold of to some old guy to be his wife, if she did get to the age she looks in the portriats as a virgin... well she must has razor sharp teeth between her legs

[Godless Ray]

Any idea who God had sex with in regards to Adam? It wasn't the snake or something was it?

Godless ray

[Dave]

I don't know but I am pretty sure there were bodily fluids exchanged and some sort of strange nostril pashing.:D

[youngmoigle]

Mary didn't become a virgin until about 80 years after she gave birth:

In about 50AD Paul said that Jesus was from the seed of David, born "according to the flesh" (Romans 1:3)

In 70AD Mark didn't even bother to mention the birth.

By 80AD, Matthew was trawling through the Old Testament searching for any text that could be reinterpreted as a prediction about the messiah. One of those texts was Isaiah 7:14 which declared that a virgin would give birth to a child named Immanuel.

"Close enough," thought Matthew - and we've been stuck with the story ever since.

[Godless Ray]

I had been curious as to why there was a need for that particular explanation biblically as opposed to him being dropped from the sky or simply created in the fashion of Adam..it's not like there was some kind of mud shortage was there?

Godless Ray

[gruber]

being born of a virgin isnt anything new or special in the worlod of gods, just look at greek mythology not many of the gods were even born of a woman

[drummond]

I... But then, a lot of Xians claim that Jesus IS god, so therefore he must have bonked his own mother...

And why not? ties in perfectly with Genesis. After all isn't that what cane did?

[gruber]

aaaahhh incest, a game the whole family can play

[youngmoigle]

It's OK - as long as you keep it in the family.

[ponde]

According to the church. The father son and holy ghost are but one.

If so he has just raped his mother:eek::eek::mad:

[gruber]

According to the church. The father son and holy ghost are but one.

If so he has just raped his mother:eek::eek::mad:


and looks like Mary is into gangbangs:eek:

[tandytripper]

And why not? ties in perfectly with Genesis. After all isn't that what cane did?

And Lot had sex with his own daughters.

Isn't the bible just chock full of "family values"?:confused:

[tandytripper]

According to the church. The father son and holy ghost are but one.

If so he has just raped his mother:eek::eek::mad:

and fathered himself.:eek: Sounds like a "deep south" (think Deliverance) family tree!

[gruber]

and fathered himself.:eek: Sounds like a "deep south" (think Deliverance) family tree!

she's probably his sister as well

[eccles]

Does it not demonstrate how bloody stupid Christianity is. Now did "God" have a willy? This was asked in another place.

I am involved in a very interesting discussion about the "Holey Babble", You might like to read it:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=4996742#post4996742

Enjoy,

em hotep

[Violetta]

In my opinion this "Mary" was either raped by a roman solider or had an affair, in order to not be stoned to death for the shame she brought her husband she claimed it was god's baby, and some how convinced her husband to go along with it, or they were already having relations so he did not question the paternity, therefore accepting the son as his own.

[eccles]

When I was a wee Catholic at School, the Jesuits would tell us we had to believe and not question. We had to believe Mary was a Virgin and worse that that we had to believe in the Holy Triniity - Three persons in one God.:mad: If we said we did not understand that the priest would just say: "As it is a mystery, it cannot be understood, but YOU MUST BELIEVE IT." The results of questioning in class were to horrific to contemplate. Those sadists of priests were very good with the leather.

[youngmoigle]

When I was a wee Catholic at School, the Jesuits would tell us we had to believe and not question. We had to believe Mary was a Virgin and worse that that we had to believe in the Holy Triniity - Three persons in one God.:mad: If we said we did not understand that the priest would just say: "As it is a mystery, it cannot be understood, but YOU MUST BELIEVE IT." The results of questioning in class were to horrific to contemplate. Those sadists of priests were very good with the leather.

August 15th is a big day for the Jesuits:

August 15th, 1534 The Society of Jesus (Jesuits) was founded by Ignatius of Loyola, 43. Created to foster reform within Catholicism, and to undertake education and missionary work, this colorful religious order was formally approved by Pope Paul III in 1540.

I love their debating technique...

Ask a question they can't answer and you get, "I think the question you are really asking is blah blah blah...and hey presto, the hard question is dodged (and they go ahead to answer their own [easier] question).

Or make a statement with which they disagree and you get, "You seem to be saying that blah blah blah (and hey presto, contentious issue pushed into the background).

You watch next time a Jesuit is interviewed on TV. He'll use these two tricks twice every three minutes on the average.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Time to get Arnie to ask Jesus some important questions ;)

Who is your daddy and what does he do?

[gruber]

What alot of people dont relise is back in ancient times, once a girl turned 13 she was found a husband (and if they were a poor family which apprently mary was apart of, they were married off straight away for the dwory). There are claims that she was raped by a roman soldier, if this was the case there were two fates that awaited the teenage mary. The first is to be stoned to death for bringing shame to the family (they were very strange back then) or she had to be married to any man that would take her and he wouldnt have to pay a dwory and this apparently turned out to be joseph (spelling?).

[weez]

Is god a rapist for impregnating a woman without her even knowing or giving consent?

Moot point. Supernatural beings don't exist and human women thus can't have sex with them, let alone be impregnated by them, with or without consent.

[Mister Pervert]

Moot point. Supernatural beings don't exist and human women thus can't have sex with them, let alone be impregnated by them, with or without consent.

Did you not pay attention during the movie, The Entitity? hehe

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Now this question is very simple, from what ive gathered from christian stories about god impregnanting mary i have had a quetsion arise and also may riase concerns about who the christians say is the lord of the universe and my quesiton is this...

Is god a rapist for impregnating a woman without her even knowing or giving consent?

Ah but it's probably an early form of artificial insemination. Voila! No sex! Virgin!

[weez]

Did you not pay attention during the movie, The Entitity? hehe

Never heard of it before.

[Mister Pervert]

Never heard of it before.

Well, now you have :-)

[TÐöer]

Ah but it's probably an early form of artificial insemination. Voila! No sex! Virgin!
off topic:

I wonder.... can that be classified as rape or considered Immoral?

Lust, comes from a requirement to reproduce. What if a woman was artificially inseminated without her knowledge?

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

off topic:

I wonder.... can that be classified as rape or considered Immoral?

Lust, comes from a requirement to reproduce. What if a woman was artificially inseminated without her knowledge?

An argument for that would be that it can be classified as rape because the woman was inseminated without her knowledge - which involved "tampering" with her reproductive organs.

An argument against that would be that it cannot be classified as rape because no sex was involved and so that phases out the possibility of it being considered rape.

However all this depends on the definition of rape.

[rainbowings15]

Any one read The Midwhich Cookoos? Maybe it was a banjo tote'n alien who impregnated Mary? It ticks all the boxes for me...:eek:

[AtheistVetStreetFighter]

Miriam is described in Sephir Tolduth Jesua, as having been fond of a Roman Soldier and not that hot for her betrothed Joseph. Not being too bright about menstruation and imaculate conceptions, she dreamed up this baby god story and Joseph being the nice guy that wanted to get laid went along with the plan. Had some buddies over from astrology land in Persia to do the charts & set this babe up with a doozy of a king horoscope. All the spices were for an acid trip for all to see a halo around the babe in a manger. The public relations and press releases were too good! A Herod "king" who died 4 years before this baby god was born on the year zero, heard all about this would be infant ruler and issued an order to kill all the 2 year olds just to make sure no little tyke could take his throne??? So Joseph got in his ship with step son & mother rape victim of Jehovah & headed off to England to hide out until his "boy" needed to visit the temple 12 years later. And Pinnochio's nose keeps growing longer and longer for all who believe.

[TÐöer]

An argument for that would be that it can be classified as rape because the woman was inseminated without her knowledge - which involved "tampering" with her reproductive organs.

An argument against that would be that it cannot be classified as rape because no sex was involved and so that phases out the possibility of it being considered rape.

However all this depends on the definition of rape.

I guess, it boils down to definition. May start a new thread later.