From member of destructive cult to atheism

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

This is a really long story but I will try to keep it concise.

Jehovah's witnesses believe that ex-members should be shunned by everyone and looked down upon, they rejected whole blood transfusions but some particles of the blood cell are ok, they protect pedophiles because of the 3 witness rule set in the bible (really who the hell gets raped in front of 3 bystanders). And not only is the bible wrong, they don't even follow it. There is a lot more I could ad but these are what led me to become agnostic and then eventually an atheist.

At the surface it does not seem so but this nutty cult causes a lot of deaths and anxiety. Just recently the organisation behind this cult, the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society Of Pennsylvania were fined US$ 28 million for protecting pedophilia -

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/us/28-million-awarded-in-jehovahs-witnesses-abuse-case.html?_r=1

recently two jw's died because of not accepting blood -
http://www.bioedge.org/index.php/bioethics/bioethics_article/10117

parents decision almost costed this 4 year old girl her life -
http://www.news.com.au/national/judge-forces-jehovahs-witness-parents-to-allow-transfusions-for-daughter-with-cancer/story-e6frfkvr-1226380955006

These stupid actions are caused by their belief in certain interpretations of the bible, to them they much rather obey, so after Jesus comes back as judge and executioner they can all live their happy ever after eternal lives in a paradise earth.:facepalm:

to be continued.

[AFA Admin]

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[Justtristo]

This is a really long story but I will try to keep it concise.

Jehovah's witnesses believe that ex-members should be shunned by everyone and looked down upon, they rejected whole blood transfusions but some particles of the blood cell are ok, they protect pedophiles because of the 3 witness rule set in the bible (really who the hell gets raped in front of 3 bystanders). And not only is the bible wrong, they don't even follow it. There is a lot more I could ad but these are what led me to become agnostic and then eventually an atheist.

At the surface it does not seem so but this nutty cult causes a lot of deaths and anxiety. Just recently the organisation behind this cult, the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society Of Pennsylvania were fined US$ 28 million for protecting pedophilia -

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/18/us/28-million-awarded-in-jehovahs-witnesses-abuse-case.html?_r=1

recently two jw's died because of not accepting blood -
http://www.bioedge.org/index.php/bioethics/bioethics_article/10117

parents decision almost costed this 4 year old girl her life -
http://www.news.com.au/national/judge-forces-jehovahs-witness-parents-to-allow-transfusions-for-daughter-with-cancer/story-e6frfkvr-1226380955006

These stupid actions are caused by their belief in certain interpretations of the bible, to them they much rather obey, so after Jesus comes back as judge and executioner they can all live their happy ever after eternal lives in a paradise earth.:facepalm:

to be continued.

Welcome yrtemmyscirtemmysa,

The practices which the Jehovah's Witnesses, Exclusive Brethren and the Church of Scientology among others is justification in my opinion for their supression by the authorities. Unfortunately the line between a 'religion' and cult is a very fine one. In France for example the church of Scientology is outlawed and treated as a dangerous cult.

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Hello, erm...yrtemmy
The only shunning here goes on for good reasons, usually related to bad reasoning.
I hope leaving the JWs didn't leave you completely out in the cold with regard to family and friends. Was your departure from the fold recent?
Anyway, welcome to the AFA forum. I hope you find value in the threads.

[BlueDevil]

Welcome to the forum yrtemmyscirtemmysa.

Thats quite a user name you have there! We may have to find an abbreviation if that's okay, otherwise there may be lots of typos. :)

[rayne]

Hi Yrt!

Thankyou for sharing. I didn't know about the 3 witness rule, much research for rayne tonight. You'll find many friendly folk here.

Update: Interestingly I've found 141 Things a Jehovahs Witness can't do (http://thejehovahswitnesses.org/things-jehovahs-witnesses-cant-do.php). I'd make a shit JW.

[Logic please]

@yrt: welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy your participation. :)

Nice to see plenty of contributions first-up. :)

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

Justtristo: I agree, JW's had issues with France as well but won the case

http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/french-news/france-must-return-46-mn-euros-to-jehovah-s-witnesses_236715.html

Worldslaziestbusker: Just call me Daniel lol. Many stopped talking to me, they pretend that I am invisible, my parents only avoid conversations involving religion but thats because I live in the same roof at the moment, as soon as I am out they will only have the minimal of contact, my cousin has not spoken to his mum and stepfather in 3 years and they live on the same street:facepalm:
My departure was around two years ago, I still believed in god for a while until late last year I snapped out of it.

BlueDevil: Daniel or Dan is fine.

rayne : Thanks, they also have a secret manual that only higher ranking jw's can use

The latest Elders Manual, released 2010, states:
"Even though a Christian has been accused of wrongdoing serious enough to require judicial action(judicial action in this context refers to disciplinary action in the religion), a judicial committee (these are words jw's use to refer meetings for disciplinary matters) should not be formed unless the wrongdoing has been established. What kind of evidence is acceptable? ...

There must be two or three eyewitnesses, not just people repeating hearsay; no action can taken if there only one witness. Deut 19:15; John 8:17.

If there are two or three witnesses to the same kind of wrongdoing but each one is witness to a separate incident, the elders can consider their testimony. While such evidence is acceptable to establish guilt, is preferable to have two witnesses to the same occurrence of wrongdoing.

If the accused denies the accusation, the investigating elders should try to arrange a meeting with him and the accuser together. (Note: If the accusation involves child sexual abuse and the victim is currently a minor, the elders should contact the branch office before arranging a meeting with the child and the alleged abuser.) If the accuser or the accused is unwilling to meet with the elders or if the accused continues to deny the accusation of a single witness and the wrongdoing is not established, the elders will leave matters in Jehovah's hands. (Deut.19:15-17; 1 Tim 5:19, 24, 25; w95 11/1 pp. 28-29) The investigating elders should compose a record, sign it, put it in a sealed envelope, and place it in the congregations confidential file. Additional evidence may later come to light to establish matters." Shepherd the Flock of God pp.71,72

It is disappointing that a procedure manual released as late as 2010 would still indicate arranging a meeting between the child and the abuser.

Taken from http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/paedophilia.php

[BlueDevil]

Many stopped talking to me, they pretend that I am invisible, my parents only avoid conversations involving religion but thats because I live in the same roof at the moment, as soon as I am out they will only have the minimal of contact, my cousin has not spoken to his mum and stepfather in 3 years and they live on the same street:facepalm:


I think this is one of the worst aspects of cult like religions. They try to hold onto members by making it clear that their entire relationship with family and friends will be destroyed should they leave the flock. It is incredibly cruel and so much against the concept of tolerance and love that religions purport to believe in.

Dan, I hope you have been able to establish some close and meaningful relationships since leaving the JWs. You will also find the "AFA forum community" will provide much support, even if it is via a computer terminal. This is a good place to get things off your chest. :thumbsup:

[Loki]

Hi yrt

Perhaps a better title would be "From member of destructive cult to atheism".

Unless you really were personally destructive and now aren't?

Mind you there's nothing to stop you being a destructive atheist if you want.

It's the cult as a whole and specifically it's hierarchy which drives it's destructive aspects, not the individuals caught up in it generally.

[crocoduck]

Welcome yrt

Exposing the silly rules of cults is a very good thing IMO.

I read where Scientologists were going to target an area for recruiting and some people with forethought distributed flyers about what Scientologists really believed in. The kind of information you would normally have to pay thousands of dollars for, after doing many courses with them. The recruiting drive was abandoned.

Sometimes just writing it down in plain language is enough to see how ridiculous (and dangerous) it is.

I hope the super secret stuff comes out into the light for public scrutiny. It might save a lot of people a lot of heartbreak.

Enjoy the forums! I guess you know there are some facebook sites for ex JW's too that look pretty supportive.

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

BlueDevil: thanks, I have.

Loki: good point.

[Loki]

It's up to yrt, it's their story.

I wasn't making any reference to their particular case, simply musing how even when people are out of the reach of these groups they often seem to carry some guilt. It's often apparent that these groups are not easy to walk away from, and their influence stays with people long after the fact.

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

I was a born in jw and at a very young age my parents with their ideologies brought me to the kingdom hall, 5hrs a week and with door knocking an extra 3 to 5 hrs a week down the drain. My parents thinking that they have the truth, with all good intentions as is with people of all religions made their first mistake.

During my youth, I was very different from the rest, they knew I was different, for one I did not celebrate birthdays, I did not stand up or sing the national anthem, I did not donate blood or later on vote, I did not use swear words, was not violent and even allowed bullying that others did to me, this is all backed up by interpretation of scripture.

I lived in another country predominantly roman catholic from the ages of 7 to 14 and it was the worst time I had,the more bullied and ridiculed the more I was draw to the cult.
My friends became only those who we share the same religious ideologies.
Then from 14 on-wards here in Sydney, a more introverted me went to school, and mind controlled that I already was, I suffered from many types of cognitive distortions.
This is not to say that all jw's have it this way, some parents turn a blind eye and others live under two contradictory set of beliefs, but most don't, I just want to point out my experience.

Negativity from others reinforced my cult mentality, saying whats wrong with ones religion can backfire, it definitely did with me, mind control is more deceptive than what some make it to be.

They teach that
1- The world is under satan's control
2- Anyone who is not a jw will be killed by the loving creator
3- Although there isn't a problem in maintain contact, socialising with non-jw's is to be avoided, (many times that I had to refuse pub invites after work:().
4- not to read material considered apostate and encouraged to read only jw sources of spiritual food:puke:
5- Preaching involves paying for magazines more than what they are worth to be allocated freely to others giving the false impression that this cult is a not-for-profit-organisation.
6- as I wrote before, you can not leave without facing repercussions.
7- Having your own views is against holy spirit:puke:

So we have here the five basic elements of mind control, as Steven Hassan explains in his book Releasing The Bonds - behavior, information, thought and emotional control, link below.
http://www.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php

To understand what happened, well I first was indoctrinated from the people that loved me the most, I was never taught any critical thinking skills, then I develop group mentality, black and white thinking, etc, mixed with mind control and you have yourself a jw/mormon/scientologist/muslim etc

to be continued

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

The Irreverent Mr Black: How do I change the title?

[EvilDRMike]

@yrt Welcome and thanks for your story. I have to admit that I find the newer religions to be very interesting in that the older religions are more settled and to some extent rest on their laurels as they have massive business investments to protect and don't like to say the wacky stuff too often. The newer religions however are full on fleecing their own flock and to do that you really need to pull out the wacky mind control. Might be able to find the link if I look but I found an hilarious site about what JWs believe (I used to work with a JW who claims this stuff is all false, I however am somewhat unconvinced and you have corroborated some of it). Anyway the really funny thing was that although it was site for ex-JWs it was more funneling people to fundie xian. Ah well I'm glade you are not in the no helping some people group.

EDM

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

crocoduck : Sorry, I missed your post, I am member of some supportive sites but the more people know the better, SA independent senator Nick Xenophon is also doing a great job in showing what cults really are.

The Irreverent Mr Black :Thanks

EvilDRMike: Jokes aside, I want my parents out and am finding it very difficult to do so, its not that they are stupid or lack education, many face this problem with theists, its only by understanding certain teachings in social psychology that one starts to understand whats really going on, Festinger's cognitive dissonance theory is one of them.

[Blue Lightning]

Daniel - welcome! Great Post! :thumbsup:

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

thanks.

[DanDare]

Greetings asymsym from a fellow Daniel. :)

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

Daniel, hi.

A thread I found back in 2005, I went by the name of bubbles.

Two things I've noticed since then, my English and intelligence has improved.

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&th=77578&prevloaded=1&&rev=&reveal=&start=0&count=60

[DanDare]

Daniel, hi.

A thread I found back in 2005, I went by the name of bubbles.

Two things I've noticed since then, my English and intelligence has improved.

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&th=77578&prevloaded=1&&rev=&reveal=&start=0&count=60
Bubbles, bubbles, bubbles my bubbles. What for you get banned at that site?

[rayne]

Bubbles, bubbles, bubbles my bubbles. What for you get banned at that site?

Sorry my heads all icky from sinus issues "What did you get banned from that site for?" am I reading the sentence correctly?

[Neil Richardson]

A matter of the mildest irritation to me is that most people seem to have adopted the christian usage of "cult" over the dictionary definition. Theistic religions are clearly cults, by definition.

[DanDare]

Sorry my heads all icky from sinus issues "What did you get banned from that site for?" am I reading the sentence correctly?
Cultural reference. Tasmanian Devil to Bugs Bunny: What for you burry me in the col' col' ground?
Yes, your translation is correct.

[Logic please]

A matter of the mildest irritation to me is that most people seem to have adopted the christian usage of "cult" over the dictionary definition. Theistic religions are clearly cults, by definition.
As our own Goldenmane (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/member.php?u=170) has (more or less ;)) said on occasion "Christianity is just a shitty cult that got lucky". :thumbsup:

[Goldenmane]

As our own Goldenmane (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/member.php?u=170) has (more or less ;)) said on occasion "Christianity is just a shitty cult that got lucky". :thumbsup:

And I thought no one was paying attention.

[Logic please]

And I thought no one was paying attention.
Always, GM. ;):)

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

It's a cult alright Goldenmane.

As for the banning, I think I carried on with my nonsensical crusade on another thread that had nothing to do with the bible, the moderator noticed what I was doing and then I was banned.

Thinking back at the mind set I had, I was thinking that I was helping people, armageddon was just around the corner, that experience was a shock because I didn't understand why nobody cared and were mocking, and also how helpless I felt that I just couldn't get through to people. Then after that experience I went through a small phase of denial, trying to understand what just happened in a distorted and illogical way so to shut down my cognitive dissonance.

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

So I only socialised with jw's and spent most of my time in the cult, but then came a change.

At 22 I lost interest in the field of work that I was doing, so I did a advance diploma.
Most of my conditional jw friends that we shared interests were now married and some moved to other states. I was never much of an extrovert to begin with but now I had less people to converse, a little less motivated to attend the hall and TAFE took a big chunk of my time that I started missing meetings at the kingdom hall and field service (door knocking), days turned to weeks, weeks to months, still a jehovah's witness stuck to my books but lonely.
I became what jw's refer to as spiritually weak, once in a full moon I would attend a meeting which some people would look at me like they saw a ghost, gossip perhaps but I didn't care and it made me feel less wanted.
More than a year in TAFE, a web site discussion forum that appeared to belong to jw's very slowly sparked my interest, I started reading some of the threads and quickly found out that posts people commented on were against what the religion teaches, I knew very well that I should not read apostate material and I am certain that if things were as before I would had stopped reading, but I continued to read and had a good laugh at their expense (or so I thought). At that time, my idea of apostates were ex-jw's who rebelled against this religion because they wanted everything done their way, so I continued reading what I thought to be crap that these people pulled off. This went on for a while, finished my diploma, found a job and I didn't put as much effort for cult duties as I did before, but still I believe and followed most of their teachings like not to associate with people who are not jw's.

At 26 I found a thread about an ex-governing body/jw member (ex member of the hierarch of hierarchy), now this was a big deal to me, its almost the equivalent to the pope denouncing catholicism, calling it bluff but now curious I found as much information as possible about this ex-gb member Raymond Franz, I read is first book with the intentions to debunk it, but found it impossible, it was well written with a lot of supportive evidence.
The book is called crises of conscience and it is exactly what it did to me, I could no longer consciously support this cult, its hard to put what I felt into words but in my opinion it was the biggest mind fuck that a person can have, everything turned upside down, finally realised I was living a lie and everyone I knew was part of a joke.

To be continued.

[Strato]

I read a Christopher Hitchens article online where he refutes the general maxim "what doesn't kill me, makes me stronger." He painfully describes what the massive radiation and chemo treatment has done to disempower him and the loss of that awesome instrument, his sonorous voice.

In your case, as in mine, there is experience and inside knowledge, disgust at how cults exploit, the predation, the intellectual, emotional and autonomy- restricting straightjacket, the disapproval, repression. That engenders resolve to be self-determining, informed and free thinking. That's what's behind the raised fist salute (except the Taliban etc).

Now I could help others if they are ready.

[thinkngal]

Hi yrt, I'm also an ex jdub...Ray Franz's book was the final turning point in my exit. A lot happened that led up to that point. I was in most of my life...brought up a jdub, left for approx 6 years, then back in with renewed energy and healty guilt complex to keep me there. Good to meet you.

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

Hi yrt, I'm also an ex jdub...Ray Franz's book was the final turning point in my exit. A lot happened that led up to that point. I was in most of my life...brought up a jdub, left for approx 6 years, then back in with renewed energy and healty guilt complex to keep me there. Good to meet you.

Hi thinkngal, yeah its good to be out and see others breaking free:thumbsup:

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

There is a lot that have not mentioned, I wonder if those who have not been in this type of cult, a cult like scientology, unification church, latter day saints etc fully understands the mind control placed on us, not only was all the tools necessary to rationalise taken away but cognitive traps triggered by certain things said or proven wrong turns on irrationality at full swing.
According to social psychology our personalities change depending on the environment we are in, like one does not behave in the same manner when at work to a funeral or at the confort of your home. The same with cult like mentalities, they have their-selves side that only family and friends will know but if their cognitive traps are triggered its going to be very difficult to get your point across. Steven Hassan explains thivetin his books that being direct can be a pointless and even a counter productive exercise but rather discussing these matters through their-selves personality is the key, nobody is fully programmed or deprogrammed.
This was something that i didn't do when i left the cult but if I knew i would had done things a lot differently when it came to family, I had said truthfull things that cause them to completely stop discussions about religion, and even became more hardcore jw's.

Even when I left but still believed in god the world did not seem the same but I knew that nothing had changed, life is indeed a state a mind and psychology was the last jigsaw to fully understand mind control, cults, hypocrisy, very smart people doing very stupid things and disagreements.

What allowed me to disbelieve in god was the experience learned when I found out Jehovah's witnesses to be a false religion, at the time while I still believed in god I became and still am self critical, it took me around another year to completely leave theism. During this year I own a huge thanks to literature written by Bart Eharman, the late Raymond Franz and Christopher Hitchens, Don Cameron, Steven Hassan and Noam Chomsky.

The End

[rayne]

Thanks for that Yrt. For myself, having never been a theist, I'm not knowledgable or experienced in the brainwashing techniques of religions/cults. It's been enlightening listening to you.

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

Thanks for that Yrt. For myself, having never been a theist, I'm not knowledgable or experienced in the brainwashing techniques of religions/cults. It's been enlightening listening to you.

Thanks.

[thinkngal]

I agree totally Yrt....I've also found it as frustrating to try to explain this to a non-cult member as it is to try to talk to a jw. Direct counter arguments with a jw send them deeper into their beliefs. Being emotionally involved with family its a trap I also fell into and alienates them even further. I've read Steven Hassan, Chomsky, Hitchens and Franz but not the other two you mentioned. Also I felt so ashamed of having been brainwashed that it was impossible to open up to anyone as I was very emotionally fragile and to know other people thought I was stupid kept me silent. It was a horrible place to be. I'm a lot stronger now!

[workmx]

Dan,

Welcome to the forums.

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

thinkngal - I had a short silent phase to, it was like "should I tell them?" "what will be their reaction?" But don't give up.

Workmx - Thanks.

[thinkngal]

My "short silent phase" lasted quite a while :) I was quite terrified of anyone finding out in case they thought I was stupid, I felt so ashamed of once belonging to such a religion but I'm on the other side now and don't care who knows. I speak openly about it as a mind controlling cult.

[Faithless]

Hi Dan
Welcome to the forums & the lovely community that is AFA;
Your story resonates with me (you to thinkngal) I have some family members who are either ex or current jw. It always strikes me how similar yet different your experiences are. I am so glad to hear you are ok and have worked things out to the degree you have.
All the best
Faithless

[12from12]

I hope this is the right place to post this story

When I was 19 I met a girl as you do anyway she was a Mormon. Long story cut short I figured she could be deconverted and she figured I could be converted.
So off to Mormon church I went a scary place full of unatural happy faces. Anyway it didn't take long for them to figure out I was skeptical of the idea that Joseph Smith was god's prophet. After a few weeks I gave up on the idea that she could be deconverted and stopped attending. A few days later I got a visit from a couple of "Elders" both in their twenties. After a brief attempt to get me to accept the Joe Smith story they tried a different approach.
Noticing I was in a wheelchair and had no contact with family they approached it as in who cares if it is true or not. If you sign up we basically get you a wife, job and social network!
After all their appealling to the supernatural they then had taken a rather shocking turn to appeal to my pragmatic side.
So the question begged why were these "Elders" really Mormons?
After that failed they gave up after a few more phone calls.

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

I hope this is the right place to post this story

When I was 19 I met a girl as you do anyway she was a Mormon. Long story cut short I figured she could be deconverted and she figured I could be converted.
So off to Mormon church I went a scary place full of unatural happy faces. Anyway it didn't take long for them to figure out I was skeptical of the idea that Joseph Smith was god's prophet. After a few weeks I gave up on the idea that she could be deconverted and stopped attending. A few days later I got a visit from a couple of "Elders" both in their twenties. After a brief attempt to get me to accept the Joe Smith story they tried a different approach.
Noticing I was in a wheelchair and had no contact with family they approached it as in who cares if it is true or not. If you sign up we basically get you a wife, job and social network!
After all their appealling to the supernatural they then had taken a rather shocking turn to appeal to my pragmatic side.
So the question begged why were these "Elders" really Mormons?
After that failed they gave up after a few more phone calls.

Thats good to hear that you didn't buy into it, others are not so lucky.

JW's and mormons have things in common, they both have that friendly sales pitch attitude, shunning policy for ex-members and a lie as it's foundation, changing dogma during the many generations that have passed, there are also strong indications that Russell and Smith had a relationship with freemasonry.

[Iseeyouthere]

Noticing I was in a wheelchair and had no contact with family they approached it as in who cares if it is true or not. If you sign up we basically get you a wife, job and social network!


Ok.. that is just fucking disgusting and pitiful of them.
I have feeling, under the agreement that you join their cult, that they might of forced one of their single female members to marry you...
Basically:
"Welcome. Thank you for joining our fake-happy-time cult family. Heres your free woman for you to marry."

[12from12]

Ok.. that is just fucking disgusting and pitiful of them.
I have feeling, under the agreement that you join their cult, that they might of forced one of their single female members to marry you...
Basically:
"Welcome. Thank you for joining our fake-happy-time cult family. Heres your free woman for you to marry."

Yep I agree, as if I would want to marry someone who didn't choose it of their own free will anyway, I have way too much respect for personal liberty for that. By the time I left I was very upset because it was clear that being in a wheelchair had mattered and that truth mattered not. I have been forced to live most of my life on the outside looking in and when you know better it can be very frustrating. I think because of this I became less vulnerable to bullshit cults. I figured if life was going to be harder because of the chair I owed it to myself to value truth above all else. They prey on people's misfortune and fear like all the mainstream religions do but because they cut the recruits off from their previous lives it gives them the ability to mess people up for good.

[hoppy]

I think this is one of the worst aspects of cult like religions. They try to hold onto members by making it clear that their entire relationship with family and friends will be destroyed should they leave the flock. It is incredibly cruel and so much against the concept of tolerance and love that religions purport to believe in.:thumbsup:

The hypocrisy displayed by all organised religion, whether they are 'cults' or 'mainstream' has done my head in for years. They preach tolerance, love and forgiveness and then act the complete opposite. Kudos to yrtemmyscirtemmysa and thinkngal to have the courage to follow your convictions in the face of such despicable actions.

[thinkngal]

Hey Faithless, yes in my case it was quite a process to get out of the jdubs. I could have walked away but my heart would have stayed so I stayed until I fully accepted it was false. Tried to replace it with other religions/philosophies but finally came to the conclusion all religion was man-made and false so finally here I am an atheist :-) My parents have shunned me and I don't see them anymore which would have broken my heart had I walked away while still undecided. They make their choices and I make mine.

[Lilith]

Hey Faithless, yes in my case it was quite a process to get out of the jdubs. I could have walked away but my heart would have stayed so I stayed until I fully accepted it was false. Tried to replace it with other religions/philosophies but finally came to the conclusion all religion was man-made and false so finally here I am an atheist :-) My parents have shunned me and I don't see them anymore which would have broken my heart had I walked away while still undecided. They make their choices and I make mine.

I'm sorry to hear that, thinkngal.. It's a crappy thing for them to do... And shows a big chunk of character on your part, I believe, in facing that and staying true to yourself.
While my family still keep me around to mock and belittle and they haven't shunned me entirely, I do mourn the acceptance and love that ought to come from that quarter. I'm a big fan of the notion that having a family is very important to our well being, but not at all attached to the idea that we must keep the one we get by default. Self-made families can be equally great.
I hope you've got a good base of loving and accepting people around you.

[Sten]

We seem to have a number of ex JWs posting here and I was wondering if the "born again" thing is big in the JW world.

I am really interested in the "born again" phenomena, and was trying to coach some comments out of ex Christians about it on the "Pretending" thread, but non were forthcoming - drat.

[Sten]

You got the PM, Sten?

Don't know what the PM is - Premenstrual?

If you are asking where the thread is it is on the same forum as this "Coming Our stories" and the thread is called "Pretending".

[Sten]

Private Messages (http://atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/private.php)

Ok I get it.

Yes I did get the Private Message thank you and there is a lot of interesting stuff there. I have not as yet come across any examples of ex believers reflecting on their born again - conversations with Jesus - experiences.

I have a nephew who is about as born again as it is possible to be, as he claims to have almost daily chats to Jesus. If he ever regains his senses I would love to hear what he thinks, looking back on those experiences, afterwards.

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

We seem to have a number of ex JWs posting here and I was wondering if the "born again" thing is big in the JW world.

I am really interested in the "born again" phenomena, and was trying to coach some comments out of ex Christians about it on the "Pretending" thread, but non were forthcoming - drat.

Hi Sten,

JW's don't used wording such as "born again", although jw's borrow many dogma aspects from protestantism the "loading the language" equivalent is referred to as what jw's say when one should move into "the" new personality, that personality they speak of refers to following god's manner through jesus. Of course psychologically speaking (whom use the scientific method) they find it impossible for a person to simply move into a new personality.

[Strato]

Proselytizing is about appropriating the target's mind, which is pretty obvious. Exploiting the credulity and vulnerability of those who haven't the protective education or a natural skepticism, a confident, secure personality type. The special semantics and the doctrines can certainly seem sophisticated at the time. One constructs, imputes a pattern in all the teachings in one's own mind. It all seems so internally consistent. "This thing is bigger than all of us."

One is convinced of one's personal plight, ignorance, alienation from God under co-opting strategies employed in evangelism. Cultism and evangelism are inherently rather manic. Sober questioning and discourse is not what it's all about.

Praying the sinner's prayer and accepting the Lord is attended with jubilant celebration and affirmation by the predators whose status in the cult, as anointed by God, is affirmed by them 'winning a soul'. For the victim, that sense of "you belong now" and the whole new transformed life ahead delusion, is appositely described as "born again." It's a palpable feeling.

Interesting how the religious arrogate to themselves the implicit right to disapprove of skeptics, spiritual 'lukewarmness' and the thought and life of those 'in the world.' Disapproval and derision comes with the territory.

So to me "born again" = delusion.

[yrtemmyscirtemmysa]

Proselytizing is about appropriating the target's mind, which is pretty obvious. Exploiting the credulity and vulnerability of those who haven't the protective education or a natural skepticism, a confident, secure personality type. The special semantics and the doctrines can certainly seem sophisticated at the time. One constructs, imputes a pattern in all the teachings in one's own mind. It all seems so internally consistent. "This thing is bigger than all of us."

One is convinced of one's personal plight, ignorance, alienation from God under co-opting strategies employed in evangelism. Cultism and evangelism are inherently rather manic. Sober questioning and discourse is not what it's all about.

Praying the sinner's prayer and accepting the Lord is attended with jubilant celebration and affirmation by the predators whose status in the cult, as anointed by God, is affirmed by them 'winning a soul'. For the victim, that sense of "you belong now" and the whole new transformed life ahead delusion, is appositely described as "born again." It's a palpable feeling.

Interesting how the religious arrogate to themselves the implicit right to disapprove of skeptics, spiritual 'lukewarmness' and the thought and life of those 'in the world.' Disapproval and derision comes with the territory.

So to me "born again" = delusion.

If history has anything to do say to this, many dead religious, so much superstition and unnecessary deaths, proof that we are primates and god does not care or does not exist. What did Vladimir Putin said when he won the last election? god is on our side, eastern orthodox god's chosen people ready for war in the name of god, again and again and again history keeps repeating itself. Born again, new personality, chosen = loading the language = tactics to control society:mad: