Atheist nations are more peaceful...

[Fearless]

I just had this linked to me some might find interesting... I hope it hasn't already been posted and I am in the right spot but it isn't something we already didn't already know I'm sure but interesting all the same

http://bhascience.blogspot.com/2009/06/atheist-nations-are-more-peaceful.html

I have to dart out but I thought I would link it before I did.

[Kid]

thanks for that Fearless! that's an interesting site; if I were you, I'd post the link too in the Fantasy Island forum under Prof. Richard Dawkins vs' Dr. John Lennox, just to wind up Peter Crowther!! see what he has to say about it...;)

[Worldslaziestbusker]

That's some neat work. It's not often you see statistical significance figures attached to a conclusion in atheist - faithful discourse.
I read about some numbers that illustrate a similar pattern with regard to criminality in strongly religious and largely secular states in the USA. I will chase this up and post a link to the work if I can find it again.
Cheerio
WLB

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Hello folks
I first came across reference to a correlation between religion and societal problems in a 2006 discussion paper from the Australian Democrats (Downer). It cited a peer reviewed article by Paul (2005) in which the religiosity of eighteen democracies was compared against indicators of social dysfunction. The data came out wishy washy with only vague trends but on the whole the places with higher levels of religious acceptance also had more social problems. The paper has been criticised for a lack of statistical rigour and several critiques have pointed out that a correlation does not equate to a causal link (der: wish the folks jumping up and down about acceptance of evolutionary theory and societal problems could grasp this).
While the criticism is justified, the paper does give me some points to help debate the "religion gives a community a moral compass" idea with a workmate. The discussion notes that we are experiencing a record low murder rate in an historical context and goes on to discuss regional skews in the USA, where southern, strongly religious states are home to greater societal woes than their northern, more secular counterparts. Again, a correlation and not a causal link but if religion did give a community its moral compass you would at least expect the correlation to be the inverse of what was measured.


Downer, J. 2006, Seperation of Church and State: Politics, Religion, Policy and Law in Australia. Australian Democrats Discussion Paper.

Paul, G. 2005, Cross-national correlations of quantifiable societal health with popular religiosity and secularism in the prosperous democracies. Journal of Religion and Society.

[tomrees]

Hi folks, I'm the guy who wrote the blog post cited at the top of the thread. But I wanted to pick up on this:

Hello folks
I first came across reference to a correlation between religion and societal problems in a 2006 discussion paper from the Australian Democrats (Downer). It cited a peer reviewed article by Paul (2005) in which the religiosity of eighteen democracies was compared against indicators of social dysfunction. The data came out wishy washy with only vague trends but on the whole the places with higher levels of religious acceptance also had more social problems. The paper has been criticised for a lack of statistical rigour and several critiques have pointed out that a correlation does not equate to a causal link (der: wish the folks jumping up and down about acceptance of evolutionary theory and societal problems could grasp this).

Paul, G. 2005, Cross-national correlations of quantifiable societal health with popular religiosity and secularism in the prosperous democracies. Journal of Religion and Society.

You might be interested in a paper of mine just published in the same journal, which is in part a response to Paul's 2005 paper. I looked at a bunch of indicators of societal health, and show that they are indeed statistically linked to religion (i.e. more religion, as measured by prayer = worse societal health).

I also showed that, working on the assumption that insecure environments make people religious, you can explain a lot of the variation between countries in how religious they are.

Read more at: Why are some countries more religious than others (http://bhascience.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-some-countries-are-more-religious.html)

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Hello tomrees
Thanks for your post and the link to your work.
Do you use referencing software and, if so, are you willing to share your Endnote/Procite/Papyrus library? I am keen to read more on the themes your paper discusses and the areas of interest listed on your website but I am an ecologist and the databases I have access to don't cover the literature I am keen to follow up in my spare time.
Will happily swap for my Endnote library but it's full of references specific to my work in marine benthos and likely of little interest to anyone outside the five people I already sent it to.
Regards
WLB

[eclectic]

thanks for this fearless. excellent stuff!

[AWarGuy]

Nice job!
This is also a fact:
Religion is the main cause of most wars (ww2,holy wars etc)
Also between the Ancient Greek to the end of the Middle ages anybody that did not believed in god would be severely punished,exile or death...

Also 'Christian Care stuff' (aid in africa etc) are only setup to convert people to Christianity..

So basically:

Christian+ God= Food

Which is kinda strange eh?
(apart from the obvious helping people bit)

[The Irreverent Mr Black]

Also 'Christian Care stuff' (aid in africa etc) are only setup to convert people to Christianity..

So basically:

Christian+ God= Food

Which is kinda strange eh?
(apart from the obvious helping people bit)
http://rynosseros.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/hungry.jpg

Of course the good xtians in Africa don't want to spread condoms or hold up the flow of starving kids with any sort of fertility control (note for AbortoMan: I am talking about all forms of control here).

The AIDS orphan with AIDS is a splendid bargain in xtian charity terms: a dependent, impressionable person who can be godwalloped, that important Run On The Board can be scored, and most likely the poor little blighter will slip away to Jeebus before incurring a huge cost in upkeep.

[tomrees]

Hello tomrees
Thanks for your post and the link to your work.
Do you use referencing software and, if so, are you willing to share your Endnote/Procite/Papyrus library?

I didn't for this paper, but I could create one with Mendeley, if you want? Alternatively, I could just email you all the refs (or specific ones) - I have pdfs of them, for the most part.

Will happily swap for my Endnote library but it's full of references specific to my work in marine benthos and likely of little interest to anyone outside the five people I already sent it to. Actually sounds quite tempting. My MSc (http://www.brighton73.freeserve.co.uk/tomsplace/scientific/msc-thesis/mst-top.htm) was in freshwater benthics :D that was a long time ago tho...

[Worldslaziestbusker]

Thanks, TomRees, but don't put yourself out on the Mendeley offer. I might contact you for PDFs of specific papers as I get moving on an idea I've had.
I thought about a career in freshwater benthic systems but decided marine was the go based on Australia's shortage of freshwater. Now I find myself in a city of artificial lakes, two hours from the nearest brine. Oh, the iony.
Cheers
WLB

[AWarGuy]

http://rynosseros.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/hungry.jpg

Of course the good xtians in Africa don't want to spread condoms or hold up the flow of starving kids with any sort of fertility control (note for AbortoMan: I am talking about all forms of control here).

The AIDS orphan with AIDS is a splendid bargain in xtian charity terms: a dependent, impressionable person who can be godwalloped, that important Run On The Board can be scored, and most likely the poor little blighter will slip away to Jeebus before incurring a huge cost in upkeep.





Every bit of that is CORRECT.They arent helping the spread of AIDS nor agriculture uses.

[davo]

I posted it on another thread, but thought it should go here for ease of access, and it's relevant. Sorry for the double post

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