I'm Offended!

[Phroso]

One issue related to my Atheism is the fact that I am expected to tiptoe carefully among the religious community in order to avoid causing any offence.

Of course, to some believers, the fact that I do not believe in any Gods is an offence in itself and they feel quite justified in castigating me over my Atheism.

Luckily, I live in a Christian rather than Islamic environment so I have not been subjected to the threat of a Fatwah death sentence.

Of course, if Christian's ever gain sufficient power, I've no doubt that I'll be hauled before some sort of Inquisition and possibly tortured and burned to death for my philosophy.

In the meantime, I'm able to speak out and declare my Atheism without fear of those extremely dire consequences.

Today I was in the company of a group of men and I told a joke which found humour in religion. (See joke reprinted below)
We tell jokes about everything else, so why not religion?

Anyway, when the punchline was delivered, the group which included a couple of Catholics, all roared with laughter.

However one man angrily spoke up and made it clear that he was very offended. He also seized the opportunity to tell everybody that I was an Atheist, as if that in itself was a cause worthy of censure.

At the time, I couldn't think of anything to say, except "relax, no offence was intended".

Frankly, I'm tired of worrying about how my secular philosophy and jokes will be received by those with extreme religious sensibilities. If Atheism is to ever gain wider credibility, it should be expressed proudly and not fear the criticism and bullying of those in fear of the supernatural.

I'm wondering if any of you have had similar experiences and managed to deal effectively with those who choose to be offended by your existence and godlessness.

What do I say without appearing defensive or aggressive?
I don't really want to cause offence but nor do I want to silenced by the possibility that some uptight Christian may choose to be offended.

Regards to all,

Phroso

For those of you who may be wondering which joke caused all the trouble, it was posted earlier under the heading, "Lighten Up"

However if you haven't seen it, here it is again.


Murphy has own nail making business,and he wants it to be the best in the world.

So he goes to a top advertising agency to have them create a marketing strategy.
The agency assures him they can create a memorable advertising campaign.

The following week Murphy goes back to the agency and is shown into a small theatre to view the finished commercial.
The lights go off and screen springs into life. On the screen is a sunset over a desert. The camera pans around to a hill and zooms in to the top of the hill.

At the top of the hill is a wooden pole. The camera climbs up the pole to where a couple of feet are hanging.
It then carries on up to a man's torso, up to his face, and there is Jesus' face.

It then moves along an outstretched arm, to a hand pinned firmly to a stake by a gleaming nail.

On the nail is proudly emblazoned the words, "Murphy's Nails"

Then a caption appears on the screen. "Murphy's nails - they'll never let you down"

Murphy is outraged, "You'll get me shut down," he screams, "That's blasphemous! I'll give you a week to come up with a decent campaign or I'll go elsewhere. "

A week later Murphy goes back to the agency to see the new advertisement and is shown into the theatre.
"This had better be an improvement" he warns as the lights dim and the screen leaps into life.

On the screen appears a Roman street with lots of people milling about. The camera then pans quickly to left to see Jesus running
like hell, while being pursued by two Roman guards.

The camera then zooms in on the two guards as one guard says to the other........

"This would never have happened if we'd used Murphy's nails. "

[Seamus]

I am expected to tiptoe carefully among the religious community in order to avoid causing any offence.


Expected to tip toe by whom? Why do you feel you are under any obligation to mee such expectations?

OF COURSE Catholics would laugh: it's funny!

So you have offended someone,that is going to happen if you're at all honest on a daily basis.Also if you lie your tits off and bend over backwards NOT give offence .You have the right to say what you like within the law..He does NOT have the right not to be offended..

I would not be at all concerned with giving offence to such a humourless twat per se. It would depend on context.By that I mean any short or long term negative impications.

If the probability of negative outcome(s) is high enough,I'd apologise with as much sincerity as I could fake.

Otherwise ignore him.

[NakedApe]

What do I say without appearing defensive or aggressive?

Regards to all,

Phroso

How does "Get fucked" sound?

[youngmoigle]

Offended silence is often the reaction to this one:

God was feeling a bit grumpy and the angels suggested he take a holiday, but he couldn't decide where to go.

"What about planet Earth." they suggested.

"Hell no," replied God. "I was down there about 2000 years ago and slept with some woman named Mary - and they're still talking about it!

[Phroso]

How does "Get fucked" sound?

Well, I have to admit, those were the words that immediately sprang to mind but I was trying to be diplomatic and I didn't think they would help to defuse the situation.

Phroso

[Phroso]

Expected to tip toe by whom? Why do you feel you are under any obligation to mee such expectations?


That's an interesting observation, Seamus.

I think it's fairly well accepted that the two subjects most likely to cause dissension and conflict are politics and religion.Of the two, I would suggest that religion is the most inflammatory.

Therefore, I usually make an effort not to disturb the delicate sensibilities of religious zealots when I am aware of their mental frailty.

However, I feel that I should not be silenced if or when religious dogmatism needs to be confronted.

[Kid]

How does "Get fucked" sound?

Brilliant! nearly died laughing...:D
yeah, why not say it like it is? there's never a lion around when you need one...

for myself, I'm offended every bloody day by these selfish self-pitying troglodytes...give 'em hell, I say and stand strong before them.

[Seamus]

@phroso

I'm not suggesting one should be blunt and insensitive towards the feelings of others. I AM saying you have exactly the same rights to express your beliefs (or lack of them) as any believer.

To walk on egg shells for fear of giving offence is to be manipulated. That kind if implicit threat is also a form of passive aggressive bullying.

[Phroso]

@phroso

I'm not suggesting one should be blunt and insensitive towards the feelings of others. I AM saying you have exactly the same rights to express your beliefs (or lack of them) as any believer.

To walk on egg shells for fear of giving offence is to be manipulated. That kind if implicit threat is also a form of passive aggressive bullying.

Yes, I understand that I have the right to express my beliefs and I exercise that right. However, if possible, I'd rather do it without causing offence.

I'd like to think that we can indulge in rational argument while maintaining a rational and respectful tone.

"A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger" Proverbs 15:1

However, I have to concede that there are times when it is difficult to deal with irrational, emotional and self righteous religious bigots.

[NakedApe]

Yes, I understand that I have the right to express my beliefs and I exercise that right. However, if possible, I'd rather do it without causing offence.

I'd like to think that we can indulge in rational argument while maintaining a rational and respectful tone.

"A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger" Proverbs 15:1

However, I have to concede that there are times when it is difficult to deal with irrational, emotional and self righteous religious bigots.

I believe it's at times like that when ridicule can be a useful and perfectly legitimate tool of criticism.

Morons like the person you mentioned earlier are, in my experience, more likely to be silenced by ridicule and the fear of being laughed at than they are by a logical, well presented argument.

[Elbert]

I read somewhere that the nails went through the wrists, not the hands... they tear too easily apparently. So it probably wasn't the nails that were at fault in the second advertisement.

[TÐöer]

I have nothing to add. Asians generally are more sensitive of each other. We only curse within closed doors. Haven't heard any Christian jokes before. That was a good one. hehe.

[bertrandrussell]

Dammit Nake ape, you took my suggestion.

[bertrandrussell]

Yeah, I have to agree with Nakedape. As an aside, if they were offended by that, they should go to a cradle of filth concert! I've never seen so many 'Jesus is a c*nt' t-shirts in my life! And the t-shirt doesn't have the star! And it comes with a picture of a masturbating nun! And yes, people in australia (brisbane of course) have been arrested for wearing it. But in all fairness I wouldn't want my children seeing that t-shirt.

[Seamus]

Ever been to Hong Kong or Singapore?

-They love to swear at the gwai lo,as they know we can't usually understand them;

The only Cantonese I know makes a vulgar suggestion.

The Japanese ARE excruciatingly polite in public. To the point it can be [intentionally] insulting.

[TÐöer]

Ever been to Hong Kong or Singapore?

-They love to swear at the gwai lo,as they know we can't usually understand them;

The only Cantonese I know makes a vulgar suggestion.

The Japanese ARE excruciatingly polite in public. To the point it can be [intentionally] insulting.

Argh.... Tolerant meaning they wont tell you anything you understand ;)

For the chinese (excluding mainland China), Vulgar words is the norm. It's like saying hell, Shit or f###. But it's usually not taken seriously.

Dialects like Hokkien tends to sound offensive, even if they're just saying "Hi".

There are also cases of self pride and ignorance, some asians tend to find those who can't speak their language amusing. But that's just plain stupidity, they don't realise what will happen if the situation was the reverse.

[cheree]

Luckily, I live in a Christian rather than Islamic environment so I have not been subjected to the threat of a Fatwah death sentence.

Of course, if Christian's ever gain sufficient power, I've no doubt that I'll be hauled before some sort of Inquisition and possibly tortured and burned to death for my philosophy.


Not all islamic countires issue a fatwah if you dont believe in god.
Most dont, and the ones that do, have become extreme due to rebelion of western christianity.

eg, Iraq was secular (Under atheist rule) when saddam was dictator. It was a mostly islamic nation; but not an "islamic nation".
Now it is... give it enough time and it will be another afganistan.

[Jaar-Gilon]

I believe it's at times like that when ridicule can be a useful and perfectly legitimate tool of criticism.

Morons like the person you mentioned earlier are, in my experience, more likely to be silenced by ridicule and the fear of being laughed at than they are by a logical, well presented argument.
I say.....
RIDICULE THE RIDICULOUS! woop woop
RIDICULE THE RIDICULOUS! woop woop
RIDICULE THE RIDICULOUS! woop woop
RIDICULE THE RIDICULOUS! woop woop
RIDICULE THE RIDICULOUS! woop woop
get down with your funky self woop woop
http://filminbusan.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/burnafterreadingstillshot.jpg

[Phroso]

I believe it's at times like that when ridicule can be a useful and perfectly legitimate tool of criticism.

Morons like the person you mentioned earlier are, in my experience, more likely to be silenced by ridicule and the fear of being laughed at than they are by a logical, well presented argument.

Seriously though!

I note that a few respondents have advocated ridicule as a tool (or weapon) of debate (or destruction) when dealing with dedicated God botherers.

Personally, I'm inclined to think that ridicule only causes resentment and confirms the conviction that we are all evil and dedicated to the destruction of their beloved God.

Frankly I don't think it is a good idea to fan the flames of their hatred. Remember, there is no shortage of religous adherents who are prepared to kill in defence of the Invisible Man in the Sky.

I was recently denounced as an atheist with such obvious loathing that I felt like one of the Salem witches.

Personally, I think it is more important that atheists should maintain their dignity and always attack the idea, not the individual.

[GenericBox]

Personally, I think it is more important that atheists should maintain their dignity and always attack the idea, not the individual.

Just because ridicule is used in an argument doesn't mean we are attacking the individual.

Ridicule is used to attack the idea - because the idea is ridiculous.

[Elbert]

I reckon we have to be gentle with these people. Everyone believes what they want to believe. Most of the world's population believes with relgious fervour that wealth, fame, popularity, posessions, the easy life... will make them happy. Most people believe that endless economic growth is not only possible, but desirable. Most people believe that democracy will provide good government. Most people believe that their country is superior to others. Most people believe there is no limit to the number of humans this planet can support.... Believing in an invisible superman in the sky who loves and takes care of you is no sillier than any of the other things I've mentioned. And the harm the other things have done is arguable worse for the survival of the natural world, than supernatural belief.
Gentle ridicule laced with kindness is my prescription. It is very difficult for the person on the other end of a discussion to be angry or violent to someone who is being kind and pleasant. But don't expect to change their mind. Why should they give up something that makes them feel better and able to cope with life?:rolleyes:

[Elbert]

Elbert, can I use that speech to argue for me getting single malt whisky on the Pharm Benefits Scheme?
Most certainly, although, in your condition, a single will probably not be as effective as a double. I confess to surprise that a man of your obvious talents has not yet wangled a repeating prescription for said beverage.:)

[Elbert]

My mother's folk are Gordons, and I am too concerned that the doctor or pharmacist may want me to "shout" if there's more than one round.
I fully understand. I lived for a time in Alloa -- the town with the largest whisky warehouse in the world, and was granted the title of honorary Scotsman in testament to my parsimony.
But Gordon... isnt that gin?

[Godless Ray]

That guy offended by your joke? I think I have seen him in almost every Dawkins lecture. Front seat and to the right,arms tightly folded. He is the only one not applauding at the end. twit.



Godless Ray