Be Strong my bretheren

[James.G.Anderson]

Hi guys,

I have never beleived in the ultimate untruth, as a child I even saw that the bucket they call religion was riddled with holes

I hate religion it is so stupid and makes me a cranky human being in general, I feel like the only sane person in a sea of looney tunes. It literally takes hapiness away from my life. I wouldn't care if I knew that heaps of people beleived it but the fact that it is a topic that constantly takes centre stage upsets me to no end.

Why do we walk about treadig on egg shells why the idiots shout from the roof tops their religous conviction.

[Jaar-Gilon]

Speak for yourself mate, I don't tread on eggshells. I'm quite happy to tell the religious they're behaving like deluded fuckwits.
I'm quite happy shouting about logic, reason and nature from the rooftops.

[Darwinsbulldog]

Hi James & welcome.

I don't hold back either, but neither do I believe in an atheist Jihad. :)
So that is two exceptions to your rule so far. :)

[sceptomaniac]

I don't think there's any point in trying to condemn people who are clearly never going to change their minds...it's hypocritical for one; because we are only lowering ourselves to the level of the fundamentalists. But at the same time (at least in my experience), 'treading on eggshells' often leads to a sort of sugar-coating of your beliefs; for example using the word 'non-religious' instead of atheist, and I don't agree with that either.

It can be difficult to find a happy medium, and some people will insist on being arseholes either way, but that's our challenge! :)

[Jaar-Gilon]

I don't think there's any point in trying to condemn people who are clearly never going to change their minds...it's hypocritical for one; because we are only lowering ourselves to the level of the fundamentalists. But at the same time (at least in my experience), 'treading on eggshells' often leads to a sort of sugar-coating of your beliefs; for example using the word 'non-religious' instead of atheist, and I don't agree with that either.

It can be difficult to find a happy medium, and some people will insist on being arseholes either way, but that's our challenge! :)
Are you saying atheism is a belief?

[sceptomaniac]

Are you saying atheism is a belief?

Sorry, I guess that was badly worded...what I meant was (again, in my experience), 'treading on eggshells' can lead to a sort of sugar-coating of your convictions...by using supposedly 'less threatening' words than 'atheist' which to me is really just watering down the concept.

Better? :)

[Jaar-Gilon]

:) Scepto, I was actually referring to the stooping to the fundamentalist level. To be a fundamentalist one must have faith. Do you think that the existence or non-existence of god is unknowable?

[sceptomaniac]

Oh wow...it really is a bad day for me today isn't it?

Once again, this is my fault for poor choice of words! As Mr. Black said, I meant that putting people down for their beliefs would be lowering ourselves to the level of those who exhibit fundamentalist behaviour...
I hope that clears it up!

I hope the Literature essay I had to write today wasn't this unclear!

xD

[Xeno]

the Literature essay I had to write today Ah! There's ya problem.

:)

[James.G.Anderson]

I don't think there's any point in trying to condemn people who are clearly never going to change their minds...it's hypocritical for one; because we are only lowering ourselves to the level of the fundamentalists. But at the same time (at least in my experience), 'treading on eggshells' often leads to a sort of sugar-coating of your beliefs; for example using the word 'non-religious' instead of atheist, and I don't agree with that either.

It can be difficult to find a happy medium, and some people will insist on being arseholes either way, but that's our challenge! :)

Just Curious as to why you think that people will never change, people are being enlightened all the time (and yes I use the word enlightened please disregard the religous conetation), is it not a moral responsibility to help our fellow humans? not in a jihad way but more of a duty of care

[Seamus]

Just Curious as to why you think that people will never change, people are being enlightened all the time (and yes I use the word enlightened please disregard the religous conetation), is it not a moral responsibility to help our fellow humans? not in a jihad way but more of a duty of care http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=231426)As it turns out, I don't walk on eggshells around proselytisers of any kind,be they arrogant theists or arrogant atheists.

An agnostic atheist and skeptic, I assert only "I do not believe due to lack of credible evidence" I make no claims, including that ALL religions and ALL believers are unenlightened, stupid, ignorant or deranged.

My position is that some kind of religious beliefs are virtually universal,with atheist a tiny minority. That suggest to me that (1)The yearning for the divine may well be a hardwired survival tool and (2)that therefore religion meets a range of human of human needs.

I help my fellow human beings in a pragmatic ways as a personal moral imperative. I do not expect others to share my moral values. I do not have the arrogance to think I have any answers,to know what's best for other adults. I have no right or duty or care* to tell others what they should or should not believe or how they should behave. (as long as they obey the law and stay out of my face)


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* when using a precise legal term, perhaps make sure you understand its meaning first.Misusing terms makes you look ignorant. "Duty of care"refers to tort law(damages)

In tort law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort), a duty of care is a legal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law) obligation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obligation) imposed on an individual requiring that they adhere to a standard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_care) of reasonable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasonable_person) care while performing any acts that could foreseeably harm others http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duty_of_care

[sceptomaniac]

Just Curious as to why you think that people will never change, people are being enlightened all the time (and yes I use the word enlightened please disregard the religous conetation), is it not a moral responsibility to help our fellow humans? not in a jihad way but more of a duty of care

And...my poor choice of words strikes again! Seriously, I shouldn't have written this when I was so tired! I didn't mean that ALL people are unchangeable, but most of the people I have to deal with have been so completely brainwashed by their religions that when their faith is challenged they do to adult equivalent to sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming at the top of their lungs. I've learned (the hard way) to pick my battles...

I'm sorry I've been so unclear!

xD

[Jaar-Gilon]

is it not a moral responsibility to help our fellow humans?
Not necessarily, no.

[Jaar-Gilon]

I meant that putting people down for their beliefs would be lowering ourselves to the level of those who exhibit fundamentalist behaviour...
People who believe illogical, unreasonable things in the face of evidence to the contrary deserve to be put down. Deserve ridicule.

[sceptomaniac]

People who believe illogical, unreasonable things in the face of evidence to the contrary deserve to be put down. Deserve ridicule.

In my opinion, while their beliefs certainly deserve to be ridiculed, the person themselves is still a person and still deserves respect. You can put down a person's beliefs without putting them, the person down. But anyone who takes it personally and gets offended, well that's their problem.

[Centauri]

A person's emotional ties to their silly religious beliefs is not my fucken problem.

[DanDare]

More and more folks are willing to yell "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore". Look at just a sample of some Australian facebook groups:

Get Chaplains Out of my Public School (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Get-Chaplains-out-of-My-Public-School/209887115697951?sk=wall)
Secularise Australian Public Schools (http://www.facebook.com/seculariseaustralianpublicschools?sk=wall)
Fairness in Religions in Schools (http://www.facebook.com/secularschools)
Parents4Ethics (http://www.facebook.com/pages/parents4ethics/107748349274509)
Free and Secular Victorian Schools (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Free-and-Secular-Victorian-Schools/198914603476338)
Australian Secular Lobby (http://www.facebook.com/AustralianSecularLobby)
No Creationism in Australian Public Schools (http://www.facebook.com/pages/No-Creationism-in-Australian-Public-Schools/235486589828870)
Australians for Separation of Church & State (http://www.facebook.com/groups/54429760859/)

Never mind all the blogs and humanist organisations. You might like this Time for that performance review, Jimbo (http://thatsmyphilosophy.wordpress.com/2011/08/31/time-for-that-performance-review-jimbo/#comment-811)

[Xeno]

More and more folks are willing to yell "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore".Now there is a phrase which turns me off completely. It is owned by the set of "We have no fucking idea but our sense of entitlement is HUGE".

[Seamus]

In my opinion, while their beliefs certainly deserve to be ridiculed, the person themselves is still a person and still deserves respect.

In MY opinion,there are NO innate rights or expectations.

My respect is earned, not ascribed and may not be demanded as a right. Eg I despise AS PEOPLE paedophiles and anyone who kills for personal gain or a political agenda.

However, it behoves me to treat others civilly and with good manners in real life,at least initially. That is in my best interest.My inner feelings are my business.

At times I may feel obliged to explain what I've said or done but never what I feel.

[DanDare]

Now there is a phrase which turns me off completely. It is owned by the set of "We have no fucking idea but our sense of entitlement is HUGE".
Depends or your mental context. What you see is not contained in the phrase itself. I haven't seen the movie for at least fifteen years and I don't remember its context.

For me its just "this religious entitlement shit has gone for too long, too far, and I can't wait any longer for someone else to try and fix it".

[Xeno]

@DD: I refer not to the movie for context but to current political currents on the right.

[DanDare]

@DD: I refer not to the movie for context but to current political currents on the right.
Ah, as opposed to us cumquats on the left. I understand. :p