Tonight I was asked to choose 'god' and 'family' or nothing.

[Jin-oh Choi]

I am here, you are my family now.

[Mentally Saturated]

That's sad news, Jin-oh. :(

Ultimatums are wonderful things for advancing negotiations... not !

Gary

[gemack]

So sorry to hear that.

Hopefully with some time and space they will come to see that you are the same person whether religious or not. To cast you out is staggeringly stupid and nasty.

To be honest, if the only way you can find their acceptance is to believe in God then it is futile to beat yourself up over it - you can never force yourself into something. Once you have seen reason and logic it's very hard to forget it.

Please rest assured that there are plenty of non-religious people, and even religious people to be honest, who will judge you based on YOU and your integrity, not your belief in some cosmic zombie-man and book of fairytales.

[Logic please]

Extremely sad, Jin-oh. :(

You're entitled to keep it private if you wish, but if I may ask, did something bring this ultimatum about? Why now? :confused:

[Lee]

We are here for you Jin-oh.

Take care.

Lee
x

[davo]

Do they understand you can't make yourself believe? Sad news :( hang in there maybe give it time :(

[Sieveboy]

Big hug from me.

[Praxis]

Oh Jin-oh *hug* that's just terrible :confused:

For some reason, given you're so vocal and active in the Launceston atheist community I just sort of assumed that your family were okay with it . Clearly I was wrong.

I'm very angry at your family for trying on such savage emotional blackmail on you. Disgraceful :mad:

I hope you have the support of friends in Launceston and I now really wish I was closer to Melbourne airport so I could come and see you on Monday morning.

So sorry this has happened to you.

[BlueDevil]

Sorry to hear that.

This would not be the first time that religion has driven a giant wedge between families or friends. It is very sad that religious people are so often intolerent of others views. Such intolerance seems far less likely from atheists.

On the plus side, if the atheists I spent yesterday with at the Melb Meetup are representative of most atheists on this forum then you have a mightly fine new family!!! :)

Hope the future goes well for you.

[wolty]

Feel for you Jin-oh. An example of the divisiveness of religion. Hope you are ok. Let us know if there is anything we can do.
Aren't you coming up here for hols soon? We will catch up.

[Fearless]

Sorry to hear about your intolerant ultimatum :(. Just keep in touch here as much as it can help.

The religious: preach love, peace and acceptance. Deliver hate, war and rejection. Existing behind a hypocritical guise is not inspiring.

All the best. Hope things pick up for you.

[Annie]

Very sorry to hear your news Jin-oh. Please use this place to talk about stuff you might have otherwise discussed with your family. You have a much bigger family now.

.


---
- King Pattalak

[Logic]

Sorry to hear that things have turned out in that way. I think this community will make you a pretty good back up family. Best wishes.

[Xeno]

What a remarkable thing to do, and contrary to teaching and behaviour of the majority of religious people I have met too. We may for the most part be remote and we are not kin but we are kith on whom you can rely as a group.

All the best. Your plans to move may be related, and are probably a good idea. Establish yourself. Time heals a lot of stuff.

[Centauri]

You have my support and best wishes.

[Goldenmane]

Shit, dude.

Sorry to hear it.

Not sorry to be thought of as family, though.

[riddlemethis]

Wow Jin-oh, that's appalling! Of course it says more about them (& their god) than it says about you. I expect they never thought in a million years you'd call their bluff either. Sigh. People can be so cruel & stupid, and rarely more-so when they think they've the imprimatur of their religion. I sincerely hope they see the error if their ways. In the meantime I hope this doesn't place hardship on you, outside of the obvious emotional one. Keep your chin up & know that we all care about you.

[David Nicholls]

Jin-oh,

Firstly, be assured you are not experiencing a unique problem. There are no stats but it is widespread in the community. The following may not suit your situation but it is the advice the AFA offers in these circumstances. People hold a religious view emotionally although claiming it is a rational stance, sometimes held because of ‘evidence’.

Many an argument in family situations over the religious concept stems from this. When Atheism demands evidence from family, of course, none can be produced which inflames those who don’t have any. It is really, calling them idiots without using that or similar words and sometimes that kind of terminology can enter the Atheist vocabulary when under emotional stress.

We advise people with this problem never to initiate the religious subject with family as being right is not a good enough motive considering the possible nasty outcomes. In personal situations, it is upon those with the greater knowledge who have the responsibility not to use that against those with less.

If there were still love between all the parties involved, with the only point of hostility being the religious question, then it would pay to express that love and even apologise for upsetting religious kin. After all, they are the victims of either genes or nurture or both.

I wish that advice were available to me and I had acted upon it at a similar stage of my life.

Good luck and I hope it is not too late to rebuild bridges if that is what you want.

David

[davo]

Feel for you Jin-oh. An example of the divisiveness of religion. Hope you are ok. Let us know if there is anything we can do.
Aren't you coming up here for hols soon? We will catch up.

You are coming up for holidays Jin-oh? There is space at my place, would be cool if you take me up on that :) I have interwebz :)

[kazzaqld]

That's so unfair. But rest assured we all have your back. I agree it would be great to see you if you are up this way soon.

[Darwinsbulldog]

It goes without saying that religion encourages, and indeed is based on absolute claims matched only by an absolute lack of evidence. Rigid thinking promotes absolute ultimatums. Far from being "family-friendly" religion wants people to worship god above all. Families have to fit in, or they are not in the picture.

Sorry to hear about your personal tragedy Jin-oh. One can only hope that some spark of reason occurs and that your family will accept and love you as a full member without judgment or irrational demands to follow their faith/beliefs.
For now, I am touched that we are your adopted family. And honoured.
Hang in there.

[Lord Blackadder]

Jin-oh, what a terrible thing for a family to do. So much for Christian family values...

Hang in there matey, and remember that we are all here for you.

BTW I will be down in Tassie in November - we should catch up for food and drinkies.


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- Sent from my iPhone using magic technology thingy application thingy.

[wearestardust]

well, that's utterly stuffed. I'm very sorry to heare you've been put in that situation.

It's a shame that people who make these sorts of ultimatums don't get that one can't choose what one believes.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

damn... the worst I ever got was threats of being kicked out of the house and shit. Now it does not matter a lot.

Hope they realize what they have done. Great case for "religion separates families" - and is the exact reason I suggest there is little difference between a cult and a religion.

[Podblack]

That's dreadful news. Hugs and hang in there - hope you have support from others in your vicinity?

[Onlyatheory?]

Bloody hell, Jin-oh! I am terribly sorry for you, mate. Chin up and I hope things work out one way or another for you.
Also, if you are coming up this way for hol's as suggested, would be great to meet you.
I am sure that if you need support with anything and you put out the word to your interweb family, there will be a stampede in your direction with offers of help.

[sosman]

Hey Jin-Oh that sucks man.

IIRC you are down Launceston way, if it makes you feel any better I have family down there that thinks my family are all going to to hell but they don't mind staying at our house when they come to Melbourne for a holiday :)

[Closet Atheist]

I'm very sorry to hear that. I hope things get better for you.

[heresy]

can you check in with us here mate?
There are probably a number of viewers who wish to know that you're ok.

[Perspective]

Jin-oh,

You. Me. Drinks at GAC 2012. I look forward to meeting my adoptive bro for the first time.

Let us know how you're doing soon luv.

[Jin-oh Choi]

Thanks for all the support everyone. Just been keeping myself, busy with work.

[c2105026]

So what is the go with the separation? No visits, birthdays, weddings, etc.? To cure any possible lonliness I urge you to discover as many possible hobbies as possible. In the transition period, keep yourself busy.

In my transition periods, I wish I did....

[tjarm69]

When it's your family it can really sting. They don't understand because of the brain washing from their religion. I tend to treat it like a mental disorder. That's not out of disrespect to your family. It's more for you to be able to cope with the issues that can break down in communication and the relationship. It helps you to be less attach to the intolerance toward you, so you can maintain a connection of some sort. It keeps you not so reactive to their intorerance and it gives you empathy toward them when you feel emotionally abused. (That does not give them the rite to.) I have had family too who do really love but it don't 'feel' like love when this is the result. I don't profess to know the answers to your challenge, just can understand why it is 'not fair' some times. Keep your head held high. You are a person of honesty, integrity and your true to yourself. Well done! :)http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Slothhead]

I wonder Jin-oh Choi if you could elaborate on the situation. Of course you can suggest a blindfolded walk on a gangway if you dont wish to.
I guess my interest is the request and motivation.
Are you being asked to accept the family with their religious beliefs, or are you being asked to partake in those beliefs if you are to be included in the family?
If the latter, is the request that you partake socially, as in christmas, or is it a request to rise early on a Sunday?

As said, dont feel obliged to divulge anything, but it would be of interest to try and understand what the request is.

All the best

[Jin-oh Choi]

I think it's more the idea of the 'unknown'. The idea that I won't be 'saved'. Which I don't have a problem with.

[Perspective]

How has it been for the last few weeks since it all happened? Are you coping ok?

[Jin-oh Choi]

It's getting there. My Grandmother is very ill at the moment. So it is a really testing time for the rest of the family with their belief of what will happeen to her.

[Darwinsbulldog]

It's getting there. My Grandmother is very ill at the moment. So it is a really testing time for the rest of the family with their belief of what will happeen to her.

I don't mean to sound flippant, but we are all bubbles in the foam of life. Good to see you Jin-oh Choi.

[Perspective]

It's getting there. My Grandmother is very ill at the moment. So it is a really testing time for the rest of the family with their belief of what will happeen to her.

I won't keep prying Jin-oh, only I hope you are well and ok. I'm glad it's getting better :o

[Jin-oh Choi]

I won't keep prying Jin-oh, only I hope you are well and ok. I'm glad it's getting better :o

That's ok. My grandmother passed away on Sunday morning. So the family is dealing with it. But for some reason I don't feel sad. I'm not sure if that makes sence. I am sad but not to the same degree as the rest of the family.

[wolty]

Sorry to hear that Jin-oh.

[Loki]

Chin up Jin-oh.

[Logic please]

My condolences also. :(

[Darwinsbulldog]

Sorry mate :(:(

[TimB]

Sorry to hear about your grandmother Jin-oh. You'll always have the memories and her influences on you will be with you for life.

[rosiemacduck]

So sorry to hear about your grandmother Jin Oh and hope things have settled with your family.
Rosie

[Praxis]

I'll add my condolences on the death of your grandmother, Jin-oh.

Hope things improve with your family.

[Mentally Saturated]

My condolences, Jin-oh. Such sad news for you and your family.

Gary

[Annie]

Condolences from me too Jin Oh. Hoping you are okay.


King Tapacunt

[Jin-oh Choi]

I haven't really been back on here lately. I'm heading back to Adelaide on Saturday for the funeral of my grandfather next week who finally succumb to liver cancer on Wednesday morning. It's been a weird number of months since my grandmothers passing as well. It makes you think about life and death. I'm sure I'll be back more to talk about things.


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?5pcsr3

[Worldslaziestbusker]

I haven't really been back on here lately. I'm heading back to Adelaide on Saturday for the funeral of my grandfather next week who finally succumb to liver cancer on Wednesday morning. It's been a weird number of months since my grandmothers passing as well. It makes you think about life and death. I'm sure I'll be back more to talk about things.


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?5pcsr3


Hi Jin-oh Choi
Sorry to hear you have another funeral to go to. Hope things aren't too intense with your family. If you have have time up your sleeve on your transits through Melbourne, let me know.
Failing an airport catch up, see you at the GAC.
Matt

[Jin-oh Choi]

Hi Jin-oh Choi
Sorry to hear you have another funeral to go to. Hope things aren't too intense with your family. If you have have time up your sleeve on your transits through Melbourne, let me know.
Failing an airport catch up, see you at the GAC.
Matt

Thanks Matt, I have a 2.5 hrs next Saturday 17/3 between 6:00pm - 8:30pm at Melbourne airport on my way back. Meeting at the GAC maybe easier though.

Jin-oh

[Annie]

Hi Jin-Oh. I hope you are okay. If you find yourself in Sydney next weekend there is a great get together you could attend. :) Failing that, we look forward to catching up with you again at the GAC. :)

[Jin-oh Choi]

Hi Jin-Oh. I hope you are okay. If you find yourself in Sydney next weekend there is a great get together you could attend. :) Failing that, we look forward to catching up with you again at the GAC. :)

Hi Annie, I'm okay. Won't be able to make it to Sydney. But looking forward to catching up with everyone at the GAC. :) It's been an emotional time over the last few months.

[Praxis]

Hi Jin-oh, very sorry to hear there's been another death in your family. Must be very hard on everyone.

Hang in there mate. Sorry about the cliche.

Look forward to seeing you in only a few weeks though :)

[Logic please]

@Jin-oh: my condolences. :(

[DanDare]

This makes me reflect on how lucky I am that my family has no strongly held beliefs.

With the passing of your grandfather does that change the strength of opinion about your lack of belief amongst the rest of the family? Has this episode made you feel less able to participate in things like the Secular Party?

Keep strong and hope you have many pleasures to counterbalance the distress.

[Jin-oh Choi]

The passing of grandmother and now my grandfather has made me think more about the journey of life. It made me be stronger in my beliefs. But I can understand now, why towards the end of life people may turn to religion as a contort thing.

Rest assured I am not going to turn to religion. :) Because of the lovely friends of the AFA forum.

The events have made me stronger and also brought me some more insight in how the mind works, at these life changing events.

[Praxis]

The passing of grandmother and now my grandfather has made me think more about the journey of life. It made me be stronger in my beliefs. But I can understand now, why towards the end of life people may turn to religion as a contort thing.

Rest assured I am not going to turn to religion. :) Because of the lovely friends of the AFA forum.

The events have made me stronger and also brought me some more insight in how the mind works, at these life changing events.
*hug* What a really lovely post Jin-oh.

Looking forward to seeing you in April.

[Jin-oh Choi]

*hug* What a really lovely post Jin-oh.

Looking forward to seeing you in April.

Thank you.

Thanks, also for reminding me that the GAC is on soon. It completely slipped my mind. Time has got away from me.

[Darwinsbulldog]

Thank you.

Thanks, also for reminding me that the GAC is on soon. It completely slipped my mind. Time has got away from me.
3K++ family to say hello to in one month's time! :thumbsup:

[Voltairine]

*hugs* It's not easy to lose loved ones, particularly so close to one another. Take an emotional rest over coming weeks to regroup yourself before GAC, which might otherwise be a strain.