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youngmoigle
15th May 2009, 11:09 PM
Referring to
Fantasy Island
Christ's resurrection is historically valid
Post #54
http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?p=13418#post13418

Pete Crowther writes:
Historical sources outside of the Bible (including Josephus) show that Jesus existed, performed miracles, was thought to be the Messiah, was crucified and that despite his atrocious death his followers worshipped him as being alive. There are approximately 39 ancient sources that reveal more than one hundred facts concerning Jesus. The suggestion that he didn’t exist is ludicrous and actually reveals how ignorant someone is to history. Science is not the answer to everything. There are many other valid disciplines that need to be considered when talking about Jesus - history is one of them.


I don't study ancient history, so you won't be surprised to learn that I know of only four "ancient sources" that mention Jesus/Christus/Chrestus: Josephus, Pliny The Younger, Tacitus, and Seutonius (and some of these are regarded as forgeries).

Obviously Crowther himself should be answering the question, but I guess that will never happen, so I thought I'd just ask if anyone knows what he might be talking about. Did he just pick "39" out of mid-air, or are there Christian apologists who really think they have found 39 references to Jesus in the ancient sources?

I suppose what I really want to know is exactly how many ancient sources make reference to Jesus - in the opinion of reputable scholars (not the fundies). I've got the four mentioned above, and that figure of 39 has taken me by surprise...

davo
16th May 2009, 12:58 AM
None. Not one, all of the above are refuted.

NakedApe
16th May 2009, 04:30 AM
Here's an excellent source which should answer your question:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

Crowther's claims appear to be just another pile of bare-faced fundie lies. Why do they keep doing it? i

Godless Ray
16th May 2009, 06:02 AM
Man, I understood that there was only two, outside the bible. These two sources were not about "jesus" the dude but about the movement of Christianity the movement. It must have been very small and ultra cult like back then.

Godless.

youngmoigle
16th May 2009, 08:06 AM
So it looks like Crowther is telling porkies. I thought he was, but I don't keep up-to-date on a lot of subjects, and I wondered if I had missed something - apparently not.

Fearless
16th May 2009, 08:27 AM
It's funny but my mother (SDA Faith) believes that toying with fantasy is something to be shunned (more of the devils work), yet all I read in the OP quote was fantasy talk.

Poor lost sheep.