Anti-Depressants

[GenericBox]

So I went to the doc today and talked about depression after one of my emotional "outbursts" like I had here last time led me writing a depressing letter to my Masters lecturer.

She told me to see a doctor so I did.

And he gave me anti deppresants (kinda worrying really).


But, well, I'm too scared to take them. What will they do? What will it mean? Does anyone here take them? On them now? Will I be different?

I am thinking I should just wait and talk to a psychiatrist or something first before I start taking them.


Now I just need a way to hide them from my mum...

[Sieveboy]

Ouch mate, if you are not sure about what they will do ask the doctor who proscribed them.

I would also guess the manufacturer of the drug would have a hotline/helpline you could call. Maybe BeyondBlue could help as well.

[Praxis]

Damn being in Sydney and not at my keyboard as I can't type out a decent response GB.

I'll try to nutshell it. I was vehemently opposed to taking any sort of antidepressants when I had a breakdown in 2000 but the combination of a trusted GP and an excellent counsellor saw me go on them. The SSRI ones are much better than the old style (dirty drugs as my gp called them). I was on Aurorix (sounds like a Disney princess). I was terrified I would lose 'me' and be a zombie but I was wrong. Took about three weeks to kick in. They cleared the cobwebs out of my head and gave me some much needed clarity.

I went off them after 6 months out of a weird misplaced pride and relapsed within three weeks. I went back on them for another six months until I was better. And I knew when that was. Never needed them since.

They saved my life. I have no doubt.

Dont be afraid to take them and don't be too proud or stubborn to take them either.

All the best mate.

iPhone. Tapatalk.

[gruber]

I take em and they keep me pretty emotianlly balanced. Only problem i have with em s if i forget to take em for a couple days the withdrawals get pretty annoying

[GenericBox]

That's what I'm worried about. I don't want to even start taking them if they are addictive.

I was given Desvenlafaxine as Pristiq, and what Wikipedia has to say worries me (none of which my Doctor told me about)...

Pristiq has also been implicated with higher rates of discontinuation syndrome than are seen with other SSRI and SNRI antidepressant medications due to its relatively short half-life. Discontinuation syndrome side effects can be so severe as to be described as "intolerable" by former users, with some individuals unable to cease use due to extremely long-term withdrawal symptoms following cessation of use.[22]

[GenericBox]

And everything I'm reading so far suggests it's for severe depression treatment. I didn't think I was that bad.

I really need a new doctor.

For many people Effexor XR has the absolute worst discontinuation syndrome of an antidepressant. Effexor (venlafaxine hydrochloride) is a medication people utterly loathe to have taken. It is not uncommon for someone to fire doctors during or immediately after they quit taking Effexor XR(venlafaxine hydrochloride).

[Neospora]

THere are a great many types, and different drugs will be best suited to different symptom profiles - anxiety problems, general 'flatness' etc. A psychiatrist is the most suitable person to decide which particular drug or combination will be the best for you. And, not all of them agree with everyone. In my experience, a GP will dish out what they are most familiar with, eg zoloft or aropax. You can save a lot of time by seeing a specialist early on.

The big problem with depression is that you lose sight of who 'you' are so gradually, that it is quite easy to forget what 'normal' feels like. When starting the drugs, they can take up to several weeks to start having an effect, but when they do it is like having a cloud lifted from around your head.

Conversely, when you discontinue them, it takes a variable amount of time for their effects to cease. Some drugs, such as SSRI types both up regulate the sensitivity of your serotonin receptors as well as inhibit serotonin Reuptake. I had several relapses after discontinuing, and have now concluded that for me, I am best to stay on them.

It is critical to follow instructions carefully on a gradual dose reduction when you are discontinuing, and don't skip any! I think you might be surprised to find how many apparently 'normal' people take antidepressants, the stigma has lessened. However, I can't be of help with hiding them from your mum, I'm 40 and intend to keep the fact to myself since I can predict exactly how the conversation would go. Your mum might be different, and if you live at home, you might need to weigh up the pros and cons.

Good luck, let us know how you get on :)

Edited to add more since you've replied twice since I hit post. Effexor is unkindly referred to in this household as 'side-effexor'. I agree with the sentiments you post about. Get thee to a specialist ASAP! In the meantime, see another doctor and express your concerns, there are probably better choices to try as a first line. Given your cardiac history, I think a specialist psychiatrist would be important. Can your cardiac specialist refer you directly? Usually greases the rails for appointment waiting time.

[Xeno]

I have not taken SSRIs myself but have observed other people doing so.

They do not destroy your ability to think analytically, nor zombie out your behaviour. They are not depressants themselves. Their intended effect is to take out the extreme of your emotional state. Soon, you will find it easier to cope with upset, but you still have to use your head to do so.

I am not aware of any evidence at all that SSRIs are physiologically addictive. I believe Praxis was talking about making sure you have recovered, like not taking off the cast too soon on a broken leg. It does not mean you are addicted to the cast.

Two other comments I will make from observation and reading of medical literature on SSRIs but both should be checked with your doctor and their advice taken, not mine.

It can be better to start with half a tablet for a 2-4 days before switching to a full. You are better off to take them than not, though.

Wait a couple of weeks until they have had some effect before talking to a psychologist (if you already have a psychiatrist, that is different). Try to find a specialist in depression. Some of them are not so great. If they are not using CBT, move on. Most will of course.

All the best. Depression is curable.

Edit: I should have written something like "Depression treatment using SSRIs and CBT has a high success rate, better than any alternative known treatment."

Neospora said some things differently but I do not disagree with any of it. Zoloft and Loxalate are common ones which seem to work pretty well in terms of effects and lack of side effects but that is a hopelessly lay statement. See a good doctor.

[c2105026]

I suffer from bipolar disorder, however have not had a major manic episode for over a year (although had a brief, mild one last week)

I was on 300 + 150mg aurorix a day (2 pills, differing levels) for depression, however i was not working. I upped it to 2x300mg pills, made a couple of changes in my inter-family relationships and WOW!!! I feel like completely different person! I do feel a tiny bit "not me", but for the last 4 weeks have not had a depressive thought enter my head, and perhaps his is how we humans are supposed to feel. I have so much more energy, can focus on my work and physical goals so much more. No suicidal ideation to boot. I am seeing a therapist beginning next week to analyse the core issues of why I got so depressed in a bid that 1. it never returns and 2. I can get off the meds and live without reliance on meds. Aurorix is good, but luvox and zoloft were shit - did bugger all, and destroyed my libido to boot.

[Dane]

If you're unsure, it won't hurt to get a second or third opinion. It's going to alter your noggin, no-one will criticise you for looking before you leap.

If it's of any help, I was on Zoloft for my anxiety many years back. It honestly did nothing for that, or my mild depression. I was just 'flat'. I was on it twice, then in the end I just went cold turkey. I was a bit dizzy for a few weeks as the effects wore off, and I'll never take them again. My problem sorted itself out and was less depression-related, so I'm unsure as to how applicable this is to your situation.

[simonecuttlefish]

And everything I'm reading so far suggests it's for severe depression treatment. I didn't think I was that bad.

I really need a new doctor.

For many people Effexor XR has the absolute worst discontinuation syndrome of an antidepressant. Effexor (venlafaxine hydrochloride) is a medication people utterly loathe to have taken. It is not uncommon for someone to fire doctors during or immediately after they quit taking Effexor XR(venlafaxine hydrochloride).

I was on Effexor XR(venlafaxine hydrochloride) and it fucking near killed me .. literally. The doctor REFUSED to believe they were making me suicidal, and I had become dependent on them (as withdrawal was a nightmare that is impossible to explain to someone who hasn't been there - but believe me, when you are in bed and being raped, or attacked by ravens and you can actually FEEL their beaks and claws ripping at your hands as you try to beat them away .... jesus. Even KNOWING that it wasn't 'really' happening wasn't enough to stop the horror events of withdrawal from physically feeling real).

This was before the days when the drug company admitted to it - they invented a term called "medication sensation syndrome" or something similar to prevent doctors from being scared off by the real terms of 'dependance' and 'withdrawal'.

I have it on very good authority that Venlaflaxine is a wonder drug in most cases - but specific cases, and not always associated with depression.

If you start taking them, fine - it is a widely used drug but watch out for these possible side effects.

Hallucination/Mania/Panic Attacks/Constant terror (literal terror) if you forget to take them

Having "go kill yourself" as the initial reaction to every thought .. I need to get up .. "go kill yourself", I should have a shower "go kill yourself", I have to put the washing in the machine "go kill yourself", that sort of thing :)

NEVER EVER EVER go cold turkey to get off them like I did - it was like ten days in a nightmare lunatic asylum. I had admittedly been put on a steadily increasing does. I was reacting badly to them, the doctor(s) thought I was developing resistance and just kept increasing the dose - things got worse, rinse repeat. I was on 160 mg a day before i decided to get off them as the doctors (second opinion by now) wouldn't listen.

Once again, I know medical practitioners that swear by it, so by all means take it, just KEEP A DIARY of how you felt each day. This was way back now, and the potential dangers of some of these drugs were not understood by doctors at the time, so just make sure your doctor IS aware that this drug can go horribly wrong, as well as being a wonderful medication, depending on the patient.

It's common for one medication not to work, and you go on a merry-go-round of different drugs till they find one that works. This looks like hit and miss, and it is. Hard to get a doctor to admit that sometimes but seriously, this is how it often works out.

Venlaflaxine is also commonly used for conditions not normally refered to as good old plain and simple depression. Perhaps he has diagnosed you with one of these conditions, and depression is a side effect of that, not the primary reason for the prescription?

Like I said, please seriously consider taking this medication if you think the doctor has good reason for prescribing it. Like I said, for many patients and conditions it is a bit of a wonder drug. Just watch it.

[Annie]

Dont be afraid to take them and don't be too proud or stubborn to take them either.

All the best mate.

iPhone. Tapatalk.
I would like to see the day when all the taboo associated with antidepressants are lifted.
Of the 55 teachers I worked with up to the end if 2010, I knew of 21 who were on them and they were well informed, consulted with their doctor and had counselling as well. They were high functioning, happy and level headed having worked their way, or were in the process of working their way through their issues with the combination of all three.
Glad that you posted this GB. It will be read by many I'm sure.

Edit: I misspoke :-(
14 of my colleagues including Assistants, were on AD. 7 were counseled only.


Tapatalking

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

You may be different. For the better.

I can relate to the "got to hide them from my mum" comment too.

If you have depression in the first place, it is hard enough to think analytically.

[GenericBox]

I guess my only problem is that I still don't think I'm depressed.

I don't get upset, in the way that I don't feel bad. I feel good about life, I'm not depressed about anything in particular or anything in general.

But I can't focus, I have had 3 assignments due at university this week and although I started them a month ago they still aren't done the day before they are due. I don't have motivation, I don't want to start them.

I don't know if this is depression and I don't really trust my Doctor to know either. How can a 20 minute consult with maybe 5 generic questions be any indicator that I'm depressed? The actual questions themselves would make you think anybody under any stress anywhere is depressed - they are that generic.

I know something isn't 'right' in my head -- like I said, I can't focus, I procrastinate so much that University is usually procrastinating when my procrastination is unavailable.

I don't have the motivation to care or want to start, but that is more because at my core, I am really, really, disinterested in what I'm studying. I couldn't care less about writing a Marketing Critique or developing a Advertising Plan and I find them the most boring things in the world. I am not interested in the least.

But perhaps that is depression - I wouldn't know. But I do know that 20 minutes with a bulk-billed Doctor at a community medical centre is sure as unlikely to know.

It is my biggest reservation about depression - how would anyone know without knowing all the circumstances.

My 'depression' seems to me more like an unwanted commitment and debt to doing something I dislike, coupled with the ramifications of studying for a career I don't want, tripled with having a medical issue forbidding me living the life I want to live, and quadrupled with an ability to critically analyse it all and understand that these are the problems!

Knowing I know I don't want to do what I'm doing is the most depressing issue of all.

Half the time I swear it's probably just ADD or something.

It's not the stigma I'm worried about, it's misdiagnosis based on a test a five year old would fail that could have lifelong ramifications.

Thanks for your responses, I am not going to take the antidepressant's yet. I don't think the side effects are a risk I'm willing to take that may be just poorly handled stress or just as simple as a need to change my study.

I'll wait and see.

[Annie]

Personally, I think I would feel the same in the course of study you're in GB. You are doing the right thing as far as I can see. Question, question, question, and seek out info from a wide variety of sources and seek out the options. I hope your energy levels allow this.


Tapatalking

[Sieveboy]

I would go see someone more qualified than a GP mate, what your describing sounds like something other than depression.

[GenericBox]

To me it just seems like a real life chicken or egg situation.

I am disinterested, unfocused and unmotivated (let's call it DUU).

Am I DUU because of Depression? or am I depressed because I am DUU?

[Fearless]

Hey GB,

I have been on them twice in my life. Once after my father passed away in 1999 and a few years back due to long term workplace harassment.

The first type I was prescribed (think it was Xanax) caused me tremors and clenching of teeth and hands. Concerned me as I had never been affected like that before. Went back to the doctor who explained that sometimes you may need to try a few different types until you find one that works.

I can't recall which one I had next but it worked. For me it took the sharp edge off my emotions so I could identify an emotional 'episode' coming on and try to gain control before it took hold. I also kept a personal diary and wrote in it often especially when I felt things were spiraling out if control. Then I would read back over it later when I was in a good frame of mind and it really did start to show me where my head was at and the triggers.

When I started getting control and finding happiness, real happiness I started a health regime and the healthy eating and exercise really lifted me again. Eventually my doctor weened me off the AD's. All in all I think I was on them for around a year and a half.

The more recent episode I was prescribed Cipramil which worked well for me off the bat. Again it helped me to ride the waves and I was weened off after around 8 months.

I hate that there is a stigma with these things. I can only recommend keeping on talking to people. You might just find more people have taken them than you would have imagined.

I would recommend some form of counseling to accompany the medication and allow yourself at least 6-8 sessions before you start to see progress. It is a long term process but a worth while one to get back to living life happily.

If you are not comfortable with your doctors level of care and consultation then please seek another. It's not worth wasting your time. Word of mouth is a great way to go, someone you know will have a fantastic doctor.

All the best mate. Don't see it as you being weak or this being wrong etc, see it as you doing something positive to get life right again.

You deserve it :)

[Xeno]

GB, your comment "five questions" surprised me a lot. I have not previously seen a depression scale with so few questions.

Check Beyond Blue to identify doctors in your area who specialise in depression. Go to one of them for a decent assessment.

The fact you think you are not depressed is, bluntly, pretty immaterial. Denial happens, and can be a problem for those around a depressed person. I oppose medicalising short term unhappiness or rational discontent but you do not yet know that is the case, and there are valid and reliable tests available.

Apart from Beyond Blue (http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?), you might also wish to research CRUfAD (http://www.crufad.org/) which (with a doctor's referral) offers on-line treatment with apparently sound claims for success. This may suit you better than a human counsellor, or you can do both.

Finally, unless you have very good reason not to do so, trust your mother and tell her. It can be hard to get through to depressed people that their friends and close relatives want to help if they can (of course, not all are helpful :().

[BlueDevil]

They do not destroy your ability to think analytically, nor zombie out your behaviour. They are not depressants themselves. Their intended effect is to take out the extreme of your emotional state. Soon, you will find it easier to cope with upset, but you still have to use your head to do so.


Wait a couple of weeks until they have had some effect before talking to a psychologist (if you already have a psychiatrist, that is different). Try to find a specialist in depression. Some of them are not so great. If they are not using CBT, move on. Most will of course.


Edit: I should have written something like "Depression treatment using SSRIs and CBT has a high success rate, better than any alternative known treatment."


I would endorse much of what Xeno has said.

Seek assessment from a trained psychologist to confirm the diagnosis and if you require therapy cognitive therapy, either in the form of Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) or Rational Emotive Behaviour Therapy (REBT), is the way to go. Cognitive therapy has a well researched track record for effectiveness. If you want to do a bit of reading on the issue an excellent Australian book is "Change Your Thinking" by Sarah Edelman (I believe many psychologists recommend this book to their patients).

As far as medications go anti-depressants can be of great benefit. While it is good to try to inform yourself of the side effects don't be overly concerned by this. Many commonly used drugs have liosts of side effects that may look horrible, but few people will ever experience them. While it may be of some use to listen to other peoples stories of the medication they have been on ALWAYS remember that each person may react differently to a particular drug. The drug that someone tells you horror stories about may be the perfect drug for you and cause you no problems at all. The only way to find out if a particular anti-depressant is right for you is to try it - watch for side effects BUT don't be paranoid about it or you will start to imagine all sorts of things.

As for the diagnosis I agree that your doctor may not have been thorough enough (although that doesn't mean he is not 100% correct - he may be a very smart doctor). Loss of interest in life (disinterest, lack of motivation, procrastination etc) can be an indicator of depression, but alone is possibly not enough for a definitive diagnosis (if procrastination was a definitive predictor of depression then I must have been depressed all my life :confused: ). I would recommend a trained psychologist for a thorough assessment and if you get a referral from a GP part of the cost is covered by Medicare. In the meantime you will find "Symptom Checklists" on the Beyond Blue website.

[Neospora]

Interesting that you say that "it could be ADD for all you know"

Are you aware that ADHD can and does exist (in both the hyperactive form and inattentive form) in adults? Often, it is the inattentive type which is often missed in boys in childhood (and girls) that isn't diagnosed until adulthood.

A book you should be able to find in almost any library is called "Driven to Distraction" by Hallowell and Ratey. Both doctors, so smart, successful people, but both with AD(H)D

The first google link was to a wikipedia article on the book and work, which is probably better than a direct book review in terms of information for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driven_to_Distraction_(ADHD)

One symptom is needing high levels of stimulation to get motivated, and this can mimic some of the symptoms of depression. The two conditions can also co-exist, for obvious reasons, since as a disorder of the brain, ADHD can have fairly depressing effects on your life! There is a strong genetic component, and I am pretty certain I show some symptoms myself, my husband definitely does, and my son has a severe case. My daughter is borderline so far, hopefully she will grow up on the 'non' side of the fence! I am a procrastinator par excellence! And distractible. And have a random CBF attitude. And a crap short term memory. Check out your school reports from when you were a kid, if you see stuff like 'daydreamer', 'lacks focus" etc, it can be just as much a clue as 'can't sit still for 10 sec' and 'fidget' ! Take them with you to the shrink if that's the case.

All the more reason to get a referral to a good head shrinker :D can't hurt, and since you will get a Medicare rebate, it can work out cheaper than a psychologist. If you get an enhanced primary care plan from a GP, there is a package of visits at free/subsidized rates. Still reckon going through your existing specialist will be the fastest track, they have an excellent network of colleagues generally.

[Bolero]

Two things from me:

First, anti-depressants have kept my mum sane and healthy (and alive) for the last thirty years or so. I am hugely in favour of people using medication appropriately as necessary (although this is somewhat hypocritical, as I myself rarely go to doctors or seek medication). Without anti-depressants, my mother feels she may very well have killed herself by now - a horrifying thought which she only recently revealed to me.

The second point I want to make here is that if you are unhappy doing what you are doing, it is never - absolutely never - too late to change. You shouldn't feel stuck. You're young, and there are other options out there if you want to do something different. One of the worst things in life is feeling as if you have to choose one thing and stick with it for the next fifty years. You don't.

That's all I wanted to say. Maybe of no use, but it's important to know your options and not feel like shit when choosing.

[c2105026]

Two things from me:

The second point I want to make here is that if you are unhappy doing what you are doing, it is never - absolutely never - too late to change. You shouldn't feel stuck. You're young, and there are other options out there if you want to do something different. One of the worst things in life is feeling as if you have to choose one thing and stick with it for the next fifty years. You don't.

That's all I wanted to say. Maybe of no use, but it's important to know your options and not feel like shit when choosing.

+ 1.

GB, it sounds like it may be a mild depression from what I have researched myself, but possibly it may be more to do with stress and anxiety. You know you have picked the right uni course when you look forward to doing at least some of the assignments. I do. It appears you do not. Finish the semester and in the break have a think about what to do re: uni. "Hiding them from mum" - may I infer that your parent/s are somewhat authoritarian? It may be that you are afraid of changing your course will incur the wrath of the elders? Well, I listened to my parents back when I was 19 re: uni, and my life as an engineer went to shit. I am much happier now studying primary teaching.

You must be yourself, and not let anyone or anything put you into a box of what simply may not be right for you. Otherwise you will get depressed very quickly. As an atheist you may realise that the lack of God means we "suffer" existential freedom - our lives are 100% our actions. We are all architects of our respective futures.

[Perspective]

I guess my only problem is that I still don't think I'm depressed.

I don't get upset, in the way that I don't feel bad. I feel good about life, I'm not depressed about anything in particular or anything in general.

But I can't focus, I have had 3 assignments due at university this week and although I started them a month ago they still aren't done the day before they are due. I don't have motivation, I don't want to start them.

I don't know if this is depression and I don't really trust my Doctor to know either. How can a 20 minute consult with maybe 5 generic questions be any indicator that I'm depressed? The actual questions themselves would make you think anybody under any stress anywhere is depressed - they are that generic.

I know something isn't 'right' in my head -- like I said, I can't focus, I procrastinate so much that University is usually procrastinating when my procrastination is unavailable.

I don't have the motivation to care or want to start, but that is more because at my core, I am really, really, disinterested in what I'm studying. I couldn't care less about writing a Marketing Critique or developing a Advertising Plan and I find them the most boring things in the world. I am not interested in the least.

But perhaps that is depression - I wouldn't know. But I do know that 20 minutes with a bulk-billed Doctor at a community medical centre is sure as unlikely to know.

It is my biggest reservation about depression - how would anyone know without knowing all the circumstances.

My 'depression' seems to me more like an unwanted commitment and debt to doing something I dislike, coupled with the ramifications of studying for a career I don't want, tripled with having a medical issue forbidding me living the life I want to live, and quadrupled with an ability to critically analyse it all and understand that these are the problems!

Knowing I know I don't want to do what I'm doing is the most depressing issue of all.

Half the time I swear it's probably just ADD or something.

It's not the stigma I'm worried about, it's misdiagnosis based on a test a five year old would fail that could have lifelong ramifications.

Thanks for your responses, I am not going to take the antidepressant's yet. I don't think the side effects are a risk I'm willing to take that may be just poorly handled stress or just as simple as a need to change my study.

I'll wait and see.

Hey GB, I have absolutely no idea whether or not you should be on antidepressants. As far as starting your uni assignments a month ago and only just finishing them the day before though - I hear you! I'm usually pretty good but the last two I struggled big time and got myself physically sick. I had a day off work and was miserable. Once I handed it in though I was feeling better within a couple of hours. Coincidence or not, I don't know but certainly stress and deadlines can really take a toll on me.

Start going for a walk or doing your assignments in different locations (if you haven't already). I find sitting at the same desk in the same room gets very uninspiring. Good luck with it all buddy :o

[simonecuttlefish]

If the doctor prescribed Venlaflaxine for some thing other than depression, that may be resulting in some level of depression, then Veblaflaxine might be the way to go. How strong are they? How many mg per capsule, and how many times a day? If it's only a weak one (like about 40 MG) then perhaps you could consider taking them and see the result. I would certainly want to see a result before they start cranking the dosage up though. Remember. KEEP A DAILY DIARY OF YOUR MOOD!

[Fearless]

I can't recommend keeping a diary enough.

[Logic please]

@GB: I can only echo the suggestions of others to seek a second expert medical opinion if you feel you need one, and to utilise Beyondblue as well.

FWIW, the "Depression Checklist (http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=7.980&tmp=FileDownload&fid=1180)" on the Beyondblue site has 9 questions. I guess it's possible that the doctor may have felt they only needed to ask 5-6 additional questions, if your earlier discussions obliquely answered, say, 3 of them.

There seems to be a lot of material on Beyondblue, including about antidepressants (http://www.beyondblue.org.au/index.aspx?link_id=7.980&tmp=FileDownload&fid=1285).

Please look after youself, all the best mate. :)

[Atheos]

I went to see a GP today at the local community medical centre, [had to wait till 12.15pm for a 10.50am appointment], the doctor and I had an immediate rapport, for which I am thankfull, the result of the consultation is that I have been diagnosed as having Major Depression. Then I had to go and have a blood sample taken and will be going back to the doctor next Friday, where we will dicuss treatment, the difference between the doctor I saw today and the doctor I saw over 12 months ago [at the same medical centre], is that I perceived no interest at all in what is wrong with me from the previous doctor, which led me away from seeking help from anyone else.
I will post what medication (if any) the doctor prescribes next week.

[GenericBox]

I have not taken the ADs yet but I took a week off work and got extensions for my assignments and I already feel 100% better.

And yes I wasn't exaggerating. The doctor asked me about four questions: So you're feeling down? Having you been having disturbed sleep? Stressed out? Okay. Here is an anti-depressant prescription - actually, here take the Starter Pack.

I literally walked out with drugs in hand. It disturbs me. No wonder there are drug problems and people abusig the system!

I'm going to take the starter pack back tomorrow when I see the counsellor.

[Xeno]

Ferfuksakes see another doctor. Get a proper test.

The psycho can do the test but prescription requires a psychi or a doc.

[Dowser]

There's a fair bit of misinformation in this thread. It probably doesn't help by listing different medications in different doses with side effects thrown in. Google is NOT your best friend for clinical medicine, and anectodes are dangerous.

Best to seek a good GP's advice on diagnosis and medication questions. You don't usually need to see a psychiatrist straight up (and can be a lengthy wait to get an appointment) but can self refer to a psychologist - choose a good clinical psychologist if possible.

[cyclist]

Stephen Fry article, SMH today (http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/wellbeing/stephen-fry-warns-his-illness-may-lead-him-to-commit-suicide-20110603-1fjij.html)

Fry is one who has chosen not to use medication.



I have heard depression sometimes referred to as "The Hollywood disease" or something similar.

The reason why, is because some people who suffer from depression are manic (or bi-polar), they have incredible ups, and then some pretty hard downs. A lot of creative people are able to do some really amazing work while they are on the ups. Hence they don't like taking the medication, because while it stops the downs, it also stops the ups, so they aren't nearly as creative as they can be.

On a personal note, I probably should see a doctor about a similar script. I know that I've had some pretty bad downs in my time, but I also know that when I'm firing on all cylinders, I feel pretty much unstoppable and my productivity is through the roof.

James

[Atheos]

@James: it does not always balance out. I go three below "basement" but rarely get beyond the first floor.
Same for me these days.
Went to doc today, seems I possibly have diabetes and emphysema as well,but as to the depression, doc prescribed efexor-xr, 37.5mg, taken once daily, did a little checking on the net and I can't find much good written about it, most were american sites, [where the users had been using a number of years', in most cases], I got the general impression that once you start on these it's quite difficult to stop using them.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Protium; just recalling some stuff I remember from a (VERY BASIC) course in business law I did not too long ago, and having looked at some legislation myself, the problem here is that insurance companies are exempt from UCT (Unfair Contract Term) law. (source (http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byHeadline/Unfair-contract-terms-law?opendocument))

Insurance company contracts are regulated under the Insurance Contracts Act 1984 at this stage. I am unsure what the Insurance Contracts Act 1984 regulates regarding contracts though. Would take a while for me to work that one out and I am no lawyer.

It also appears that some such cases were resolved (http://www.hreoc.gov.au/disability_rights/decisions/conciliation/insurance_conciliation.html) but the affected parties went though a bit of headache to get it if I had to guess.

[Lord Blackadder]

The reason I want to comment (and I don't know if it's been said) is once you have a history of depression or anxiety you will NOT be able to secure income protection insurance for the rest of your life!

You is fucked!

That is all....

It sucks. And blows.

Have just gone through that very process. Because I went to a doctor for treatment for depression I was not entitled to income protection. Even though I was not prescribed any medication. And it was a once off (once cause of depression removed I recovered). Now I will never be entitled to income protection.

And this is what pisses me off. I am trying to do the right thing by insuring myself and being less of a potential burden on the heath system and government, and the fuckers knock me back because of a normal human reaction to my situation at the time. As a SINK (single income no kids) it is important to me to have my arse covered.

Fuck 'em. Maybe I'll write to Jeff at Beyond Blue and fire him up - it's discrimination I tell ya. :mad:

[Atheos]

I haven't followed this thread and haven't read much of it. I was prescribed various anti-depressents over the years as I had a chemical imbalance in my brain.. No test has been done to confirm this by specialists.. just try a different drug.

The reason I want to comment (and I don't know if it's been said) is once you have a history of depression or anxiety you will NOT be able to secure income protection insurance for the rest of your life!

You is fucked!

That is all....
I appreciate that, the doc said there are some "social stigmas" involved with diagnosed depression, however, at this stage, income protection is right at the bottom of the list for me, but definitely something to keep in mind.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

I hear you Croc, I have tried several companies to try and secure Donna and my business which is a specialist service company based on my abilities and experience and I can not obtain insurance for business or income protection.To add an insult to injury, in more or less the literal sense, if you decide to sue for discrimination, (probably best to get a compensation lawyer) only blood relatives (ie. brother/sister, mother/father, NOT wife/husband, boyfriend/girlfriend) or the individual can sue for compensation. Blame Bob Carr for such a stupid law. I just have to find some legislative sources (or maybe the lawyery types can help) to back this up. Good luck with this mate; you'll need it.

If I get sick we will be moving into your spare room.. or Annie and Woltys :)Or you could live inside the car. (this reptile likes to sleep on the bike sometimes)

[stewiegriffin81]

I haven't followed this thread and haven't read much of it. I was prescribed various anti-depressents over the years as I had a chemical imbalance in my brain.. No test has been done to confirm this by specialists.. just try a different drug..

I obviously don't know your specific circumstances (regarding this particular issue), but I can confirm that there is no standard psychiatric disease that can be diagnosed via a brain chemical imbalance. All of the psychiatric diseases are diagnosed via social norms. Once diagnosed, occasionally some of them can be confirmed to be caused by some other phenomena (eg. too much or too little thyroid hormone; too much or too little corticosteroid hormones; drug use etc etc), but I don't think there is a diagnosable "brain chemical imbalance" cause. The relevant theories about how each psychiatric disorder is biologically caused often refer to brain chemical imbalances, but they are not accurate enough to be used to diagnose or predict psychiatric disorders (yet.... perhaps one day).

Unless of course, I have misinterpreted your post, and that you are not referring diagnosis by brain chemical imbalance, but merely referring to the fact that your diagnosis (diagnosed normally) was done by a GP and not a specialist.

[Annie]

If I get sick we will be moving into your spare room.. or Annie and Woltys :)
You're all very welcome including LDWSL and Felix the cat. Just give us a days notice. :-)




Tapatalking

[Atheos]

I've had a GP (rural NSW, 1989) pull out the "brain chemistry" spiel, too.

His prescription was almost certainly inappropriate for the case (me), and has greatly influenced my choice to avoid any further involvement with medication for mood disorders.

I'm trying to approach depression [as applies to me] in the third person, not seeking sympathy on any personal level, perhaps seeking empathy in the sense of understanding, however, I would not wish on anyone to share my feelings, and as Protium says "You is fucked!" seems to apply to me bigtime :D, the thing is, my mind can rationalise that there is something amiss, but can't reason or rationalise enough to stop it or fix it [don't even know if i'm making any sense now, for instance], it is so fucking frustrating, not even sure if this is the appropriate forum for this type of stuff, please let me know if it isn't, anyway have decided to take the pills and see what happens, had the first one this morning...

[wolty]

the thing is, my mind can rationalise that there is something amiss, but can't reason or rationalise enough to stop it or fix it Exactly me on fathers day, 2001.

[don't even know if i'm making any sense now, for instance]You are. :)


I have stayed out of this thread because I feel there would be enough good advice from others. But I feel I should offer what happened to me.

Fathers day, 2001 and lots of shit came crashing down on me, death of my mother horribly, I was a separated father that had to return his 3 boys to the shithead mother.

That afternoon my head started to feel really strange. It kept getting worse. I thought I was losing my mind.

By the next morning I was almost comatose. Literally. I managed to have a shower after about 2 hours and get to the doctor. I told him I didn't even have the energy to kill myself.

He prescribed the pills and a blood test and told me they would start to work in about two weeks. I went home, crawled into bed and didn't move much at all for the next two weeks.

And then the tablets started to work. It was just like waking up again. I had to change tablets after the first lot gave me some unwanted side-effects but otherwise they were good. I took them for about 3 months and stopped when I felt happy enough to do so.

Depression is still possible in the future. I know the signs. I have felt quite comfortable since then but am also aware that if shit goes downhill in the future, I am able to cope and do something about it.


Edit: Some of the things I remember.

At the beginning I was seriously worried I was going mental. I really felt I needed to check myself into a mental hospital.
I had days where I would stare at the television that was off.
I couldn't read a newspaper, I couldn't understand it at all.
Before the blood test, I convinced myself I was dying.
It would take me sometimes an hour just to make a coffee.
I got very upset on the night of the two week mark of taking the tablets as I wasn't feeling better. I convinced myself I would live the rest of my life like a zombie.
It was a very interesting experience. From the point of understanding how my brain feels to me.

[flipper]

I haven't followed this thread and haven't read much of it. I was prescribed various anti-depressents over the years as I had a chemical imbalance in my brain.. No test has been done to confirm this by specialists.. just try a different drug.

The reason I want to comment (and I don't know if it's been said) is once you have a history of depression or anxiety you will NOT be able to secure income protection insurance for the rest of your life!

You is fucked!

That is all....

This will depend on the severity of your depression and the length of time that you have had it or duration since symptoms or medication have ceased . If you are still on anti depressants you may be able to secure Income Protection Insurance with a possible loading and/or exclusion.
If you are free of anti depressants and symptoms for 5 years, then you may be able to secure it without any loading, depending on the severity and length you may still get an exclusion for depression and/or anxiety.

The above was written by my wife who is currently employed as a Financial Planner for one of the big 4 (because I am shit-house at dictation). I also have been diagnosed and treated for depression and anxiety (prior to my AS diagnosis) and currently hold Income Protection Insurance with no exclusions.

[minerva]

For quite a while, I've had friends of mine tell me I'm suffering from depression on a couple of occasions. I haven't felt like I would rule it out, either.

I can hardly focus or concentrate on anything, my mind always feels foggy and lethargic, and I just feel completely unwilling to do anything, like I don't have the strength, mentally, to actually do anything - and a cup of coffee does not fix it.

I feel stressed and nervous a lot of the time, and I feel like I'm plucking out my hair a hell of a lot more often than I should be. I feel sleepy all the time, even though I get a normal amount of sleep - but I can never go to sleep at the right time, and I always find myself awake all night without any ability to go to sleep until I finally fall asleep in the early hours of the morning. And of course I can't get up and function at all in the early daytime hours after having had little or no sleep. I just end up sleeping in late in the morning.

Well, one day, after putting it off for a while and thinking about it, I got around to going to a GP to talk about these things.

She also said that she would not consider prescribing any SSRIs or anything like that for me (I didn't raise that or ask about it.) She said that CBT was the way to go, and that CBT was what I needed, and that would fix me up.

So, she said, I should go home, and go and log on to this website, and that's CBT, and that's gonna fix me right up. (http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome)

I was always extremely skeptical of this, right from the beginning - as far as I can tell, giving a patient a URL and sending them home to do their own self-serve so-called CBT in the form of reading a website is not proper CBT. And I didn't get any difference out of it, and I didn't see any real motivation or point in continuing to do it.

She then asked me how much alcohol I consumed... so I honestly explained that I drink rarely, maybe once or twice every couple of weeks. Like for example, right now, I can't remember the last time I drank - maybe a couple of weeks ago? - but to be honest if I do go out and have a drink occasionally, then one evening of drinking will often, in practice, involve me having several drinks, not just having one single standard drink then stopping. She then went on about how I'm binge drinking and ranted and raved on to the effect of how wicked alcohol was, and how I'm essentially an alcoholic and must completely abstain from alcohol, and that alcohol was probably the cause of all my problems. To be blunt about it, what bullshit.

She actually seemed, honestly, a little bit abrasive and mean, and almost basically just putting the blame back on me, somehow, for my problems.

It actually seemed a bit like she was ideologically opposed to things like SSRIs. And I think that's just as bad, for any physician or psychiatrist, as being too quick to dispense them to a patient without doing anything else.

I wasn't exactly desiring to have SSRIs or anything like that, but I don't have an ideological opposition to them - I just want to feel better, and feel like I used to, and be able to think about things and create things and write things without my mind being all foggy and unproductive. And I'll trust the judgement of a medical professional, as long as it largely aligns with my own judgement and common sense, as to the best way to approach that.

I left that session that day feeling pretty miserable, and disappointed that nothing constructive seemed to me to have come out of it.

I still feel the same way, and I don't think anything has really changed at all inside my head, but now I really feel like I can't be bothered going to speak to any physician about it, and I've been put off by what was basically a negative experience.

From what I've seen in the literature, the best management for depression consists of proper CBT with a proper practicioner, combined with SSRIs, combined with support and attention from friends and medical practicioners. I'm just saying, that sounds a hell of a lot more sensible than either "here's your pills, off you go", or "here's your website to read, off you go".

Anyway, I hope that wasn't too much of a thread hijack.

[GenericBox]

I returned the drugs the other week now, just to let you know :)

It seems the reputation of doctor killer will hold true in my case. I don't plan on going back to the same practice next time. They wouldn't let me return the prescription (even though I didn't open it / take it) -- and it was just a starter pack the doctor gave me as a walk out when I had the appointment.

So I assume its now on my record somewhere I was prescribed anti-deps even though I never even got them! Oh well. In the past, hopefully it doesn't come to bite me in the ass when I move to Canada or the US. Not like having a genetic heart condition won't already cause strife with insurance anyway.

Little doubt in my mind now it was just a mild panic attack bought on by poor time management and the stress of exam/assignment period at uni. 3 weeks to go until next semester.

Other than that, haven't managed to speak to a counsellor or psych yet -- both appointments I had exams and trying to reschedule is impossible considering they expect me to drop everything and ensure I don't cancel again.

Not much else to say really. Regret the whole situation tbh. But gotta live with it.

[Logic]

She then asked me how much alcohol I consumed... so I honestly explained that I drink rarely, maybe once or twice every couple of weeks. Like for example, right now, I can't remember the last time I drank - maybe a couple of weeks ago? - but to be honest if I do go out and have a drink occasionally, then one evening of drinking will often, in practice, involve me having several drinks, not just having one single standard drink then stopping. She then went on about how I'm binge drinking and ranted and raved on to the effect of how wicked alcohol was, and how I'm essentially an alcoholic and must completely abstain from alcohol, and that alcohol was probably the cause of all my problems. To be blunt about it, what bullshit.


If that makes you an alcoholic then I have some serious issues. Actually I am currently attempting to drink less often for health and money reasons, but your drinking habits hardly sound 'alcoholic' to me.

Sorry you didn't find a doctor who you felt comfortable with, I hope you are able to find a good one who can answer some of your questions about how you are feeling in a way that satisfies you.

[Logic]

Little doubt in my mind now it was just a mild panic attack bought on by poor time management and the stress of exam/assignment period at uni. 3 weeks to go until next semester.

This is what concerns me about diagnosis of depression, and why I think a second (and third) opinion is a good thing.

I think sometimes people just feel bad/down/stressed/sad/over it and how do 'you' differentiate between that and actual medical depression? The obvious answer being a doctor or other health professional, but I think that it is likely that they don't always get it right - particularly if they are unfamiliar with your personality type and life challenges. It makes me nervous that some people are being prescribed serious drugs when perhaps just working through some issues with someone (like a councillor or psychologist or even a good friend), or even something like exercising, may be enough to make them feel good again.

Does anyone know if there are any statistics/reports regarding mis-diagnosis of depression?

[Xeno]

@minerva: look up a depression specialist at beyondblue rather than walking into your random local GP.

Did the GP to whom you went give you a standard test for anxiety and depression, or form an opinion based on what you said? Corresponding question for alcoholism.