Richard Dawkins Down Under!

[David Nicholls]

Wonderful news everyone! A very exciting occasion is heading our way next year. Atheist Alliance International, of which the Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc is a member, is proposing we combine with them in having a convention in Melbourne in March 2010. With guest speakers the calibre of Richard Dawkins, Phillip Adams, Catherine Deveny, and yet to be finalised notable international and national presenters, it will be a once-in-a-lifetime event not to be missed. The convention will run from Friday night 12 March until Sunday midday with the cost of registration and meals about $250 per person and less for concessions. The theme is “The Rise of Atheism.”

We are still in the early planning stages but it would be of great assistance if those who have an interest in attending the convention contact head office by phone, letter or email and let us know. An estimate of numbers is critical to the success of this venture. Just write the word “Convention” in the subject line when replying by email.

See you there!

David

Contact:
Email: info@atheistfoundation.org.au
Phone: (08) 88352269
Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc
PMB 6
Maitland SA 5573

[davo]

I am so there ... ;)
Yay!

[boxsey]

Oh wow! How fabulous! Would love to go, but won't be able too. I look forward to all the spin off discussions though!
Someone give richard a wee peck on the cheek for me!

[David Nicholls]

Mr Black,

Don’t take this as gospel but apparently The Richard Dawkins Foundation will film the event and then sell the product as a part of the deal of getting RD here.

David

[davo]

I replied to the Melb Atheist meetup group and to info@AFA .. anyway I can help is there

[David Nicholls]

Greeting All,

The intended convention is under the control of the Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc and no other group. Direct any inquires to the AFA. Thanks


David

[David Nicholls]

BTW: "Take as gospel"? No, I have more respect for the AFA than that. Just checking to see if everyone is awake, Mr Black. And you are! :)

David

[cheree]

Is hitch going to be there????

He's the only one I am dying to see speak.:p

[SchizoDeluxe]

I may come, depends on what I am doing at the time, there's a trip I'm planning probably around that time but if not, I'll be there. I go to Melbourne a couple of times every year so it may be just the right timing.

[SchizoDeluxe]

Is hitch going to be there????

He's the only one I am dying to see speak.:p

Oh if he was, I would be there in a heartbeat without a doubt.

[David Nicholls]

My Rudd$ are waiting. Exciting stuff. Thanks David. I’m not sure if Mr Rudd would be in agreement with you spending his ‘gift’ on a heathen venture, Protium. But, hey, who cares what Kevin thinks. :D

David

[OzAtheist]

Count me in, have spread the word via twitter. Will blog as well.

Please keep us all updated so we can spread the word for the AFA.

[davo]

As soon as there is an official media announcement I'll get it out everywhere ;)

[davo]

http://axxs.org/bigkev.jpg

[cheree]

Oh if he was, I would be there in a heartbeat without a doubt.

We need to get him in it. Although, Id prefer to see him on his own. The rest bore me a little:rolleyes:.

[TimB]

Fantastic news. Well done AFA.

[Peanuts]

Sent the email...check!
Let all like minded friends know the exciting news....check!
Waiting "with bated breath, and whispering humblenesse"?.....check, check!

Lizzy

[66 vegie]

Hi.

My Husband and i will be there. Please let us know any details that come to hand.

Thanks:D

[Chrys Stevenson]

Great excitement at the Sunshine Coasts atheists group about this. I'll be there and another 5 of our members said they'll try to make it too - and we're getting more members all the time! (We meet at Noosa once a month if anyone's in the area).

[David Nicholls]

Good People,

This is not an official announcement but the highest probability (Atheist talk) is that enough people are interested to make the Convention a goer. Thanks to everyone who has responded. It is not too late to send us an email if you have not done so.

David

[Jaar-Gilon]

Melbourne you say...damn.....oh hang on I live in melbourne!! Oh splendiferous!! Will you let us know if there is anything we can do to help, will be a great opportunity to meet a lot of the people from this forum as well, we should organasise a dinner (pub session more like) or something, that would be terrific, put some faces to names. :D

[cheree]

Any news on whether Hitch will be included??

[David Nicholls]

I'll come pissed and dressed as Hitch... will that do?That might even be a bigger draw card than the wonderful Hitch. (If that is possible) It would be to me, anyway. (Sorry Hitch) :)

David

[cheree]

I'll come pissed and dressed as Hitch... will that do?

Close... But No. lol:p

[Made Of Stars]

Cool! Count me in... Will have to let the Aussies on RD.net know too (and send them all over to join, if they haven't already).

Edit: Done! http://www.richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2043361#p2043361

[Peanuts]

Cool! Count me in... Will have to let the Aussies on RD.net know too (and send them all over to join, if they haven't already).

Edit: Done! http://www.richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2043361#p2043361


Hey Ecophysiologist! I found the AFA through RDFRS via a post by Layla!

Very glad I did too!

:):)


Re: Dawkins in Australia when? (http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=25137&start=75#p1980480)

http://richarddawkins.net/forum/styles/prosilver/imageset/icon_post_target.gif (http://richarddawkins.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1980480#p1980480)by Layla Nasreddin (http://richarddawkins.net/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=35977) » Mon May 11, 2009 5:14 am
It may happen, after all! From the AFA (Atheist Foundation of Australia) forum (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=1035), the President David Nicholls writes:

Wonderful news everyone! A very exciting occasion is heading our way next year. Atheist Alliance International, of which the Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc is a member, is proposing we combine with them in having a convention in Melbourne in March 2010. With guest speakers the calibre of Richard Dawkins, Phillip Adams, Catherine Deveny, and yet to be finalised notable international and national presenters, it will be a once-in-a-lifetime event not to be missed. The convention will run from Friday night 12 March until Sunday midday with the cost of registration and meals about $250 per person and less for concessions. The theme is “The Rise of Atheism.”

We are still in the early planning stages but it would be of great assistance if those who have an interest in attending the convention contact head office by phone, letter or email and let us know. An estimate of numbers is critical to the success of this venture. Just write the word “Convention” in the subject line when replying by email.

See you there!

David

Layla Nasreddin (http://richarddawkins.net/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=35977) RDFRS Volunteer

[starr]

Just sent off my email .... I will definitely be there!

[Praxis]

Very excited to have my first post be in this thread! (I recognise some of those names :D). Oh hang on ... you might not recognise me with this name. It's the poster otherwise known as Aesthetic Atheist on RDF *waves* Thought I would adopt my dear old forum name for this place - it's been a while since I used it but thought I'd drag her out of retirement. Thanks to Durro for pointing me here.

Anyhoo .... I would camp out for tickets to this. As if having the good Prof here in my fair city wouldn't be exciting enough, I damn near went into a swoon when I saw Catherine Deveny's name - I worship the water that woman walks on!

Bring.it.on.

(I'll drop an email to head office to register my interest if someone could be kind enough to give me the email addy?)

Cheers fellow 'Strayans.

[Praxis]

Lurker? Urgh! Have to change that quick-smart.

Meanwhile, I've found the email addy and send off my email to express my interest.

I sure hope this thing gets off the ground.

[Chrys Stevenson]

Lurker? Urgh! Have to change that quick-smart.

Meanwhile, I've found the email addy and send off my email to express my interest.

I sure hope this thing gets off the ground.

I understand there was sufficient interest expressed to confirm it. Look forward to meeting you there!

[Durro]

Yep, I found this site from the post on the Dawkins website about the conference.

I'll be flying down from Brisvegas for the weekend (and catching up with my RDF buddies from Victoria - and perhaps from further afar - if we can arrange a meet up).

Oh happy days.

:D

Durro

[davo]

http://www.legorobotcomics.com/comics/63.jpg (http://www.legorobotcomics.com/?id=63)

[Lee]

Davo,

Do you think you should go bye byes? I realise you are a 'bloke' but blokes still need sleep.

From your concerned
MotherLee
:D

[GenericBox]

No sleep is the new sleep. Its da bomb.

[Sekhmet]

Yes, I've been living under a rock for the last month or two...just read this and am so utterly up for it!

[Seamus]

Mate, when it goes off, I will be hiding under the bedclothes.

Actually, I think just shutting one's eyes really, really tight will be every bit as effective against an explosion.:p .

[Praxis]

I have posted a copy of the OP on Rationalia, another forum with quite a few Aussies (and some overseas nutters who may well be willing to fly halfway around the world to attend - you never know!).

Cheers.

[GenericBox]

I think the international audience is important. Alot of money in them too. Its a good opportunity. Other countrymen seem to love Australia and for international atheists this might just be a good reason to have a holiday down under.

I do not know how these things go down, but are the any avenues, options for the AFA to offer international travel packages? Like discounted air flights, accommodation and event tickets in a package?

[GenericBox]

Tourism Australia and Specifically the Melbourne Convention + Visitors Bereau have good resources to help plan and what not.

http://www.businessevents.australia.com/

http://www.mcvb.com.au

[Praxis]

BUMP! Wondering if there is an update on how things are progressing with the proposed convention? What sort of response has been received as far as expressions of interest go?

When will we know if it's going ahead? I'm mainly thinking of those who would travel from interstate to attend, who will have to book airfares, accommodation, etc.

Thanks :)

Hmmm ... I am sure I heard on a podcast that the SGttU guys were coming to Australia in 2010 - I wonder if that's still on and whether maybe the two could be linked in some way, if possible? Just a thought.

[David Nicholls]

The latest information is that the Atheist Convention will attract between 500 and 800 people. This is a fluid estimation we are using to address the venue.

A dedicated web site is in basic operation. Additional information will appear when it becomes available. www.atheistconvention.org.au (http://www.atheistconvention.org.au) It will be a work in progress in about two or three weeks.

We are near to setting firm dates for next year.

A very competent Convention Committee made up of highly experienced persons is controlling the operation.

David

[Podblack]

Hmmm ... I am sure I heard on a podcast that the SGttU guys were coming to Australia in 2010 - I wonder if that's still on and whether maybe the two could be linked in some way, if possible? Just a thought.

The answer is 'no' - that is being organised by the Australian Skeptics, is much later in the year - and there is more information on the Skeptic Zone podcast.

[SeantheBlogonaut]

So looking foward to this. Moving to South Australia in 2 months makes this a certainty for me

[Vikki]

Can't believe I'm just getting this news now. I blame Praxis for not contacting me personally. ;)

[Praxis]

Can't believe I'm just getting this news now. I blame Praxis for not contacting me personally. ;)
Sorry love - I forgot I was your designated "bringer of all news" ;)

Did you see that Martinelv died? (speaking of bringing you news) - thread on RDF.

*mwuah*

Podblack, thanks for that clarification. Cheers.

[two dogs]

PZ Myers recently stated on his blog "There's a good chance I'll be traveling to Melbourne this Spring". I assume that he means the northern hemisphere spring. He wasn't referring to places of the same name in Arkansas, California, Florida, Iowa or Kentucky. :)

Have you any comment on this, el Presidente? ;)

[David Nicholls]

two dogs,

Yes, we have recently received confirmation that PZ Myers will be one of the speakers at the Atheist Convention in Melbourne. Isn’t that just incredible! :)

David

[two dogs]

...
Yes, we have recently received confirmation that PZ Myers will be one of the speakers at the Atheist Convention in Melbourne. Isn’t that just incredible! :)
...

Thanks; it's bloody fantastic! :D

[David Nicholls]

Yes, dear Protium, it is PZ Myers who is under discussion. Did you think it was someone else? :D

David

[two dogs]

I assume you mean PZ Myers ;)
What'choo talkin' 'bout, Willis? ;)

[SeantheBlogonaut]

In looking for the Atheist Convention website I found it difficult to find the link via the AFA home page. I had to come to the forum to find it. Am I suffering from domestic blindness or is it not linked on the AFA home page?

[eccles]

I wish I could afford to fly from the Gold Coast to the Convention plus the accommodation. WAIT. I'm sure my old School buddy Archbishop Denis Hart will put me up. I'd love to see my old home city.

[paul]

This is very exciting news. This may sound pretty sad, but it's almost as exciting as waiting for a concert! I look forward, in particular, to hearing Peter Singer.

[eclectic]

I really hope we can make it. We have to visit melbourne to visit father-in-law sometime... so we may as well get some value from the trip! ;)

[Lee]

This is very exciting news. This may sound pretty sad, but it's almost as exciting as waiting for a concert! I look forward, in particular, to hearing Peter Singer.


No, not sad at all...this is a definite event for counting down your sleeps. :)
I can't wait to hear Peter Singer too.

[Faithfree]

Should be a great meeting. Very good excuse for a trip to Melbourne! :)

[Praxis]

Should be a great meeting. Very good excuse for a trip to Melbourne! :)
Any excuse is a good excuse for a trip to Melbourne :p

PZ Myers AND Peter Singer now, too?!

Mein Goat this is shaping up to be something seriously good. I shall be in fan mode the whole time I think (but will try not to embarass self or friends .... *ahem* )

[Vonnie]

Mein Goat

Oi! Such blasphemy re our Mr Black! :D

[Mister Pervert]

Richard Dawkins AND Alice Cooper touring here at the same time!

Celebrity Death Match to follow...

[davo]

Looking forward to PZ Myers too, love his blog :)

[KeithW]

Just saw this on the "atheistcon" twitter site http://twitter.com/atheistcon

WOW Booking at the Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Centre for 2500.

Great stuff.

By the way great current deals on Virgin flights from Hobart for the 12-14 March 2010. $64 each way, I'm booking now.

[two dogs]

Just saw this on the "atheistcon" twitter site http://twitter.com/atheistcon

WOW Booking at the Melbourne Convention and Exhibition Centre for 2500.
...

That's most excellent; I'll be booking accommodation at the Hilton Melbourne South Wharf (adjacent to the MCEC), as soon as the date is confirmed!

[gruber]

iam stuck in nsw and iam poor :(

[Chrys Stevenson]

That's most excellent; I'll be booking accommodation at the Hilton Melbourne South Wharf (adjacent to the MCEC), as soon as the date is confirmed!

My team are hoping to do that too, but it appears to be booked out for the convention dates (from checking their website). I'm hoping David has booked it out for the convention and they'll offer 'convention rates' soon. David?

[davo]

My team are hoping to do that too, but it appears to be booked out for the convention dates (from checking their website). I'm hoping David has booked it out for the convention and they'll offer 'convention rates' soon. David?

I'm not certain of this, (and not the David you are asking) ... but I don't think so :\

[David Nicholls]

Kirsty, We have not booked the Hilton. The AFA is in constant communication with the MCEC and will be finalising bookings within a few days. There is a loose association between the MCEC and local hotels. Accommodation for Convention patrons will available via the Atheist Convention web site when it is up and running. This should be in about a week’s time, maybe a little longer.

David

[Logic]

I'd like to put a suggestion in to invite Bill Maher..... what a warm up act that would be... *Swoon*

[David Nicholls]

Sorry, Logic, but the overseas speaker budget is on empty. Maybe you will have to pick another for 'swooning' over. :)

David

[Logic]

awwwwwww.... I'm sure I'll find someone appropriate (or inappropriate) :p

[davo]

I'd like to put a suggestion in to invite Bill Maher..... what a warm up act that would be... *Swoon*

Hate to burst your bubble, but Bill Maher is not an atheist, he is an agnostic.

ref : http://www.avclub.com/articles/is-there-a-god,1413/

Until this summer, Bill Maher was host of the ABC late-night talk show Politically Incorrect.

The Onion: Is there a God?
Bill Maher: I think there is. We did a show last night about God and religion with Dave Foley, who I love, and we were arguing against this one woman who had a book called I Like Being Catholic. Someone said, "Oh, boy, a lot of atheists on this panel." I said, "I'm not an atheist. There's a really big difference between an atheist and someone who just doesn't believe in religion. Religion to me is a bureaucracy between man and God that I don't need. But I'm not an atheist, no." I believe there's some force. If you want to call it God... I don't believe God is a single parent who writes books. I think that the people who think God wrote a book called The Bible are just childish. Religion is so childish. What they're fighting about in the Middle East, it's so childish. These myths, these silly little stories that they believe in fundamentally, that they take over this little space in Jerusalem where one guy flew up to heaven—no, no, this guy performed a sacrifice here a thousand million years ago. It's like, "Who cares? What does that have to do with spirituality, where you're really trying to get, as a human being and as a soul moving in the universe?" But I do believe in a God, yes.

[Logic]

Hate to burst your bubble, but Bill Maher is not an atheist, he is an agnostic.

ref : http://www.avclub.com/articles/is-there-a-god,1413/

Yeah I know- In his documentary he says something to the effect of not being an atheist as he has no proof there is no god, so by saying there is no god that would make him like the religious people who believe there is a god with no proof... if you get my drift. Regardless - his anti-religion comedy is gold!!!

[KeithW]

Kirsty, We have not booked the Hilton. The AFA is in constant communication with the MCEC and will be finalising bookings within a few days. There is a loose association between the MCEC and local hotels. Accommodation for Convention patrons will available via the Atheist Convention web site when it is up and running. This should be in about a week’s time, maybe a little longer.

David

Is anyone going to request that the bibles be taken out of the rooms. I know that if I accidently open the draw and touch one I come out in blisters and my hand starts to melt.

[OzAtheist]

Is anyone going to request that the bibles be taken out of the rooms. I know that if I accidentally open the draw and touch one I come out in blisters and my hand starts to melt.

good idea, or we could order a few hundred of these warning stickers and stick them on all the bibles we find:
http://www.zazzle.com/bible_warning_sticker-217586842335457670
:rolleyes:

[Ramen]

I prefer this one, available locally. But then I may be biased. PM me.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1170/1193058834_4e5386656c.jpg

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

MA15+ isn't restrictive enough.

On another note - even a normally stupid priest knows not to take such things seriously (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HPL0BaOa-8).

[eccles]

good idea, or we could order a few hundred of these warning stickers and stick them on all the bibles we find:
http://www.zazzle.com/bible_warning_sticker-217586842335457670
:rolleyes:

This is what I do to Holey Babbles:

[angelo]

No, no. The babble can be very useful to use as a stepping up when you're just need that extra few centimeters, to squash a cockroach,to keep handy to use as a defensive weapon if a burglar breaks into your home, they provide quite a wallop you know. The paper it's written on is fine enough to use as toilet paper in an emergency and a 101 other uses. :p

[Logic]

Just wondering, at this conference I assume people will register and the name given at time of registration will be placed on 'name tags' or those card things on lanyards.... Will people be encouraged to give their AFA username which will be printed in brackets under their real name to help with networking? Maybe this is a suggestion rather than a question. :)

[Chrys Stevenson]

Just wondering, at this conference I assume people will register and the name given at time of registration will be placed on 'name tags' or those card things on lanyards.... Will people be encouraged to give their AFA username which will be printed in brackets under their real name to help with networking? Maybe this is a suggestion rather than a question. :)

Y'know - that's a really good idea! Can that be done, David?

(Oooh, I really wanted to say, "Make it so, Mr Nicholls!")

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

How about a cap? I hear the ozone layer is a little thinner than usual on Fantasy Island...

[nottabear]

Mmmm.

Is it really necessary to go and see Richard Dawkins?

Does any atheist feel insecure enough about their belief that they need to go to what could be described as an evangelistic tour?

Perhaps it's just me! Personally, I feel that Richard is a very angry person and rubs theists up the wrong way with his agressive, penetrating ways.

I prefer to be the atheist that theists love rather than one that causes theists to say "See, they are all like that!"

Sorry, Richard, but I think that you are way OTT!

[Fearless]

Mmmm.

Is it really necessary to go and see Richard Dawkins?

Does any atheist feel insecure enough about their belief that they need to go to what could be described as an evangelistic tour?

Perhaps it's just me! Personally, I feel that Richard is a very angry person and rubs theists up the wrong way with his agressive, penetrating ways.

I prefer to be the atheist that theists love rather than one that causes theists to say "See, they are all like that!"

Sorry, Richard, but I think that you are way OTT!

Don't get too carried away, the thing as I see it is Atheism does not have enough exposure in general, many people don't know what it is about, thus try to assume and bastardise it.

We need smart educated people as public figures to represent Atheism in general... hopefully more people will come out and be advocates and public heads to demonstrate a diverse range of different people which essentially is what we are.

The more exposure that Atheism has to the public and media etc the more people will come to accept it as another choice in life, then people may be more inclined to be more open minded and accepting.

We need more people like Dawkins to demystify Atheism.

Even though I havent read his books or really follow him that much I sometimes think the people who are anti Dawkins are more insecure about themselves.

Does any atheist feel insecure enough about their belief that they need to go to what could be described as an evangelistic tour?
A few generalisations and one questionable statement... Please explain what belief do we Atheists share?

[Fearless]

@ nottabear: From an earlier post of yours I assume you are a member on the Richard Dawkins Forums?

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showpost.php?p=21530&postcount=13

Out of interest, why did you join up there given your feelings about him?

[angelo]

Mmmm.

Is it really necessary to go and see Richard Dawkins?

Does any atheist feel insecure enough about their belief that they need to go to what could be described as an evangelistic tour?

Perhaps it's just me! Personally, I feel that Richard is a very angry person and rubs theists up the wrong way with his agressive, penetrating ways.

I prefer to be the atheist that theists love rather than one that causes theists to say "See, they are all like that!"

Sorry, Richard, but I think that you are way OTT!
Do you feel the same way about Sam Harris, Daniel Dennet, Victor Stenger etc, or just Richard?

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

One thing I must say though is that many atheists seem to "over-use" his works. I'm not saying they are plagiarizing or anything remotely similar (including but not limited to the methodology of the Cut & Paste Specialists at Fantasy Island) - I'm saying they tend to focus merely on him.

I haven't personally read a lot of his works but I have seen some text here and there and Richard Dawkins seems like a great guy. But would it not be wise to expand that to other books too?

After all - the more sources you have - the more credibility you have too.

[angelo]

There are many authors of sceptical and agnostic/atheist books, some I mentioned above. I read Ian Plimer's book ''Telling Lies for God'' before I ever read anything from Professor Dawkins or Sam Harris, Michael Shermer etc.
of the better known authors. Little known authors have also written some great works, but you have to hunt for their books. Some are not widely available. One book I think is even better than TGD by Dawkins is Atheist Universe,by David Mills, 2006 [Ulysses Press]. I have read this book twice within a year and enjoyed it immensely, and boy does he tell it like it is. Physicist Victor Stenger's God The Failed Hypothesis, is another exellent book using science to dis-prove gods existence.

[davo]

One thing I must say though is that many atheists seem to "over-use" his works. I'm not saying they are plagiarizing or anything remotely similar (including but not limited to the methodology of the Cut & Paste Specialists at Fantasy Island) - I'm saying they tend to focus merely on him.

I haven't personally read a lot of his works but I have seen some text here and there and Richard Dawkins seems like a great guy. But would it not be wise to expand that to other books too?

After all - the more sources you have - the more credibility you have too.

Well for what it's worth, Dawkins has put forward in many books on evolution quite varied and wholistic aspects in a simple way, where not many scientists have done quite as good a job in the wholistic department. (there are some quite good specialised books, and generally Dawkins always refers to them in his, so I end up widening my collection with a lot of good reads. I actually found him by being referred in another book .. )

I think Dawkins is recently popular reference because of the current attacks on science in the classroom, and evolution as an 'atheistic religion', and that's right up his alley, for many years.

Dawkins is a long term major accessible writer that covers science, and more recently atheism. Of course people are going to refer to him, but generally people are referring to a combined response to these attacks. Just because Dawkins states something does not mean it's not common knowledge amongst many. Nor does it mean people should necessarily have a wider reading of evolutionary biology for instance. For an atheist, Dawkins combines the two in a style and understanding, you don't have to trawl thru heavier scientific literature that is not on the track your interested in specifically.

My folks, catholic, gave me his book 'Climbing Mount Improbable' in the mid 1990's as my mum found it absolutely facinating and knew I loved evolutionary biology (she is a nursing sister, or was) and had never read anything so simple about the concepts presented. I got into Dawkins before I really even knew he was a strong atheist, nor really cared. I love science, physics and space intrigue me too.

We have had others do similar with science, david attenborough, carl sagan .. and it's this interest in sharing their loves that is well .. interesting and informative.

Can you name another recent book on evolution with as wide a readership? There's a reason for that, it's the accessibility of his writings.

But one thing I am having trouble understanding is when people say 'stop referring to stuff Dawkins talks about' etc, as he talks about evolution, and atheism, if I dropped all the concepts he himself presents so well, just because he said it, wouldn't leave me much to talk about the two :) Same thing if I avoided talking about things Carl Sagan has :)

[davo]

I rarely (if ever I think?) quote Richard Dawkins, so to those that have such a hard time dealing with him on both sides for who knows what reason (probably because he is one of the most outspoken and great orators and writers of our current time), here's some gems :

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

“…when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong.”

“There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can’t prove that there aren’t any, so shouldn’t we be agnostic with respect to fairies?”

“Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.”

“What has ‘theology’ ever said that is of the smallest use to anybody? When has ‘theology’ ever said anything that is demonstrably true and is not obvious? What makes you think that ‘theology’ is a subject at all?”

“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born.”

“…it is a telling fact that, the world over, the vast majority of children follow the religion of their parents rather than any of the other available religions.”

“The universe is a strange and wondrous place. The truth is quite odd enough to need no help from pseudoscientific charlatans.”

“There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can’t prove that there aren’t any, so shouldn’t we be agnostic with respect to fairies?”

“We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes.”

“Like computer viruses, successful mind viruses will tend to be hard for their victims to detect. If you are the victim of one, the chances are that you won’t know it, and may even vigorously deny it.”

“The essence of life is statistical improbability on a colossal scale”

“It is grindingly, creakingly, crashingly obvious that if Darwinism was really a theory of chance, it could not work.”

“With so many mindbytes to be downloaded, so many mental codons to be replicated, it is no wonder that child brains are gullible, open to almost any suggestion, vulnerable to subversion, easy prey to Moonies, Scientologists and nuns.”

“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.”

“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”

“isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”

“Religion teaches the dangerous nonsense that death is not the end.”

“Faith is powerful enough to immunize people against all appeals to pity, to forgiveness, to decent human feelings. It even immunizes them against fear, if they honestly believe that a martyr’s death will send them straight to heaven.”

“If people think God is interesting, the onus is on them to show that there is anything there to talk about. Otherwise they should just shut up about it.”

[nottabear]

Do you feel the same way about Sam Harris, Daniel Dennet, Victor Stenger etc, or just Richard?

Perhaps I've been an atheist for too long and am secure in my belief and don't need to reinforce it or listen to people talking about atheism or putting forward arguments for non-belief in a god or gods or reading about evidence or proof of existence or non-existence of invisible deities.

I don't read or listen to any of the above people. Sorry! I know of Sam Harris and Richard D but not the others.

I tend not to be dogmatic on the occasions when I discuss my belief with theists. They are mainly very "touchy" about their belief and they are not the sort of people who will go along to see Richard Dawkins, I'm sure, because of his approach. I've seen him being downright insulting at times because someone has an opposing view. I'm not saying that I don't admire him, I do, but an evangelistic tour by atheists is probably only going to attract atheists, so what is the point? Unless, of course someone wants to meet RD or the others.

I don't see atheism as a "movement". I can see why a lot of theists think that atheism is a religion! It seems to be turning into an "old boys" club!

My 2 cents worth

[Logic]

I tend not to be dogmatic on the occasions when I discuss my belief with theists. They are mainly very "touchy" about their belief and they are not the sort of people who will go along to see Richard Dawkins, I'm sure, because of his approach.

I don't see atheism as a "movement". I can see why a lot of theists think that atheism is a religion! It seems to be turning into an "old boys" club!


Who cares if they are touchy. Why not agressively argue with them? Why do religious people have the 'right' to sell their belief to every man, woman and their dog and atheists are discourged from promoting their beliefs (or lack of belief as the case may be). Why should us non-believers tip toe around believers scared of the risk of offending someone? They sure as shit don't care about offending atheists by imposing their beliefs on us.

Atheists becoming mobilised is vital in ensuring the separation of church and state in this country and I for one am sick of being dictated to by the religious fruity loops telling me what I can and can't do with my time, money and body.

So, back to the original topic - I think Richard Dawkins and his high profile can only be a good thing for stimulating discussion about the matter. I don't think listening to 'experts' speak on a matter like Atheism is to reinforce my beliefs, it is to learn more. Eg. if you were a scientist and there was a famous group of scientists having a conference you might well decide to attend to learn more from the experts in the field. I see Richard Dawkins and the AFA convention the same way.

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Well for what it's worth, Dawkins has put forward in many books on evolution quite varied and wholistic aspects in a simple way, where not many scientists have done quite as good a job in the wholistic department. (there are some quite good specialised books, and generally Dawkins always refers to them in his, so I end up widening my collection with a lot of good reads. I actually found him by being referred in another book .. )

I think Dawkins is recently popular reference because of the current attacks on science in the classroom, and evolution as an 'atheistic religion', and that's right up his alley, for many years.

Dawkins is a long term major accessible writer that covers science, and more recently atheism. Of course people are going to refer to him, but generally people are referring to a combined response to these attacks. Just because Dawkins states something does not mean it's not common knowledge amongst many. Nor does it mean people should necessarily have a wider reading of evolutionary biology for instance. For an atheist, Dawkins combines the two in a style and understanding, you don't have to trawl thru heavier scientific literature that is not on the track your interested in specifically.

My folks, catholic, gave me his book 'Climbing Mount Improbable' in the mid 1990's as my mum found it absolutely facinating and knew I loved evolutionary biology (she is a nursing sister, or was) and had never read anything so simple about the concepts presented. I got into Dawkins before I really even knew he was a strong atheist, nor really cared. I love science, physics and space intrigue me too.

We have had others do similar with science, david attenborough, carl sagan .. and it's this interest in sharing their loves that is well .. interesting and informative.

Can you name another recent book on evolution with as wide a readership? There's a reason for that, it's the accessibility of his writings.

But one thing I am having trouble understanding is when people say 'stop referring to stuff Dawkins talks about' etc, as he talks about evolution, and atheism, if I dropped all the concepts he himself presents so well, just because he said it, wouldn't leave me much to talk about the two :) Same thing if I avoided talking about things Carl Sagan has :)

I rarely (if ever I think?) quote Richard Dawkins, so to those that have such a hard time dealing with him on both sides for who knows what reason (probably because he is one of the most outspoken and great orators and writers of our current time), here's some gems :

“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

“…when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong.”

“There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can’t prove that there aren’t any, so shouldn’t we be agnostic with respect to fairies?”

“Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.”

“What has ‘theology’ ever said that is of the smallest use to anybody? When has ‘theology’ ever said anything that is demonstrably true and is not obvious? What makes you think that ‘theology’ is a subject at all?”

“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born.”

“…it is a telling fact that, the world over, the vast majority of children follow the religion of their parents rather than any of the other available religions.”

“The universe is a strange and wondrous place. The truth is quite odd enough to need no help from pseudoscientific charlatans.”

“There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can’t prove that there aren’t any, so shouldn’t we be agnostic with respect to fairies?”

“We admit that we are like apes, but we seldom realise that we are apes.”

“Like computer viruses, successful mind viruses will tend to be hard for their victims to detect. If you are the victim of one, the chances are that you won’t know it, and may even vigorously deny it.”

“The essence of life is statistical improbability on a colossal scale”

“It is grindingly, creakingly, crashingly obvious that if Darwinism was really a theory of chance, it could not work.”

“With so many mindbytes to be downloaded, so many mental codons to be replicated, it is no wonder that child brains are gullible, open to almost any suggestion, vulnerable to subversion, easy prey to Moonies, Scientologists and nuns.”

“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.”

“We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.”

“isn’t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”

“Religion teaches the dangerous nonsense that death is not the end.”

“Faith is powerful enough to immunize people against all appeals to pity, to forgiveness, to decent human feelings. It even immunizes them against fear, if they honestly believe that a martyr’s death will send them straight to heaven.”

“If people think God is interesting, the onus is on them to show that there is anything there to talk about. Otherwise they should just shut up about it.”
Actually I wasn't trying to say to stop referring to Dawkins books. I was trying to say not to appear to completely depend on his books. The less opportunity that theists get for saying "Atheism is a religion" the better.

[Fearless]

Sounds a bit like the tall poppy syndrome, the guy is coming out to talk about science, evolution, environment etc... and there will no doubt be a dose of Atheism banter. Not all Atheists believe in evolution either whether people feel that's acceptable or not so people might just criticise him on this alone.

In my opinion people are just hung up about The God Delusion and how popular among Atheists the book has become and feel threatened that it 'could' be referenced as the bible for Atheism... which it is not!. (SO WITH ALL DUE RESPECT... GET OVER IT!)

Good luck to him, he is trying to share his knowledge with people and I am sure it would be a very interesting event.

[SeantheBlogonaut]

I am going to the convention for a number of reasons including seeing a number of prominent intelligent like minded people speak. I hope to meet many of the Atheists I talk to online. I will also be visiting family.

On Dawkins, I'd be happy to meet the man who help shake me out of my silliness but by no means will I be crushed if I don't. As for the man being insulting, maybe I haven't read or viewed widely enough, but I just don't see it. In my experience theists can be overly touchy about there religion/beliefs precisely because they know they are ridiculous and they hate being shown that the emperor has no clothes.

[davo]

I've seen him being downright insulting at times because someone has an opposing view. I'm not saying that I don't admire him, I do, but an evangelistic tour by atheists is probably only going to attract atheists, so what is the point? Unless, of course someone wants to meet RD or the others.

Can you provide any reference for him being insulting? I have seen him frustrated because for instance, someone in 'debate' with him refuses to accept the evidence he presents, but he seems very much the gentleman from everything I have seen, heard or read.


I don't see atheism as a "movement". I can see why a lot of theists think that atheism is a religion! It seems to be turning into an "old boys" club!


What do you define as a movement? In my opinion, atheism can be a movement as well as a position. Whenever you get people organising to promote or defend their position, it's a movement.

[angelo]

Perhaps I've been an atheist for too long and am secure in my belief and don't need to reinforce it or listen to people talking about atheism or putting forward arguments for non-belief in a god or gods or reading about evidence or proof of existence or non-existence of invisible deities.

I don't read or listen to any of the above people. Sorry! I know of Sam Harris and Richard D but not the others.

I tend not to be dogmatic on the occasions when I discuss my belief with theists. They are mainly very "touchy" about their belief and they are not the sort of people who will go along to see Richard Dawkins, I'm sure, because of his approach. I've seen him being downright insulting at times because someone has an opposing view. I'm not saying that I don't admire him, I do, but an evangelistic tour by atheists is probably only going to attract atheists, so what is the point? Unless, of course someone wants to meet RD or the others.

I don't see atheism as a "movement". I can see why a lot of theists think that atheism is a religion! It seems to be turning into an "old boys" club!

My 2 cents worth
My only regret is he is not coming to Perth. I would be first in line at the ticket counter.

[angelo]

As far as reading material, I don't need reinforcement from other atheist people to strengthen my non-belief. I have read several of John Shelby Spong's books, [retired bishop of Newark] beginning with Saving The Bible From Fundamentalists. His second last, Jesus For The Non Religious, and several in between. Professor Keith Ward a colleague of Prof. Dawkins at Oxford University, a theist is matter of fact giving a speech somewhere here in Perth tonight. The subject of his speech will be for theists to leave behind their creationism ideas as evolution is not just a theory. Many theists have attacked Mr Ward for his liberal christianity. This is an example of the church of England [at least] been dragged screaming and kicking into the 21st century.

[Praxis]

I have a sticky about the convention over at RDF. Today there was this response from someone:

Groan! I can't imagine anything worse than an atheists' convention! Hahahahaha! It sounds like religion all over again.

Why can't other atheists be like me and sit in a corner, happy and content with their belief?

Why do they have to behave like theists? They'll be having a worldwide torch bearing ceremony, soon. Richard at the helm, running up mountains and down dale, bearing the torch of atheism!

Can you purchase effigies of Richard and Philip, et al, at these conventions?

Can someone buy me an RD keyring http://richarddawkins.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_cheesygrin.gif and send it to me?

Atheists, please be secure in your non-belief in invisible deities. You don't need coventions for HEAVEN'S sake!

You are born an atheist, you don't need all the crap that theists have.


To which I have responded:

I'd go to a fundy convention if Catherine Deveny was going to be speaking there http://richarddawkins.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif

So we won't be seeing you then? Never mind.

I can see where you're coming from but I'm still excited to be going and to get a chance to hear brilliant people like Prof. Dawkins, Peter Singer, PJ Myers, et al speak - something that wouldn't normally happen. AFAIC, it's a brilliant opportunity.

Have fun in your corner http://richarddawkins.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_cheers.gif

There's no pleasing everyone I guess. Meh.

[Logic]

I'm sure the RDF guy is happy to sit in his corner and whinge about how religion is infiltrating politics and then not do anything about it. I didn't realise being an Atheist meant you aren't allowed to promote your cause.....

[Chrys Stevenson]

That's so bloody ignorant. How about this:

"Groan! I can't imagine anything worse than voting! Hahahahaha! It sounds like politics all over again.

Why can't other Democrats be like me and sit in a corner, happy and content with their liberal views?

Why do they have to behave like Republicans? They'll be having a worldwide torch bearing ceremony, soon. Obama at the helm, running up mountains and down dale, bearing the torch of Democrats!

Democrats, please be secure in your liberal views. You don't need to vote for HEAVEN'S sake!

You are naturally liberal Democrats, you don't need to vote and run political campaigns like Republicans!"

Ask that jackass if he realizes that the impetus is not only social, it's political. Getting nearly 3,000 atheists together for a weekend in Melbourne is going to send a huge message to the Australian government that atheists are uniting and mobilizing politically. It identifies us as a potential voting bloc. It helps us to lobby the government on all sorts of important issues from euthanasia to gay marriage, from changing rules on religious tax and anti-discrimination exemptions, from gay marriage to euthanasia; from secular abortion counselling to internet censorship - and much more.

It will also get atheism a heap of publicity and prompt people a) to think about their beliefs and b) realize there is a large, supportive community of atheists in Australia which is part of a huge international network.

[SeantheBlogonaut]

That's so bloody ignorant. How about this:

"Groan! I can't imagine anything worse than voting! Hahahahaha! It sounds like politics all over again.

Why can't other Democrats be like me and sit in a corner, happy and content with their liberal views?

Why do they have to behave like Republicans? They'll be having a worldwide torch bearing ceremony, soon. Obama at the helm, running up mountains and down dale, bearing the torch of Democrats!

Democrats, please be secure in your liberal views. You don't need to vote for HEAVEN'S sake!

You are naturally liberal Democrats, you don't need to vote and run political campaigns like Republicans!"

Ask that jackass if he realizes that the impetus is not only social, it's political. Getting nearly 3,000 atheists together for a weekend in Melbourne is going to send a huge message to the Australian government that atheists are uniting and mobilizing politically. It identifies us as a potential voting bloc. It helps us to lobby the government on all sorts of important issues from euthanasia to gay marriage, from changing rules on religious tax and anti-discrimination exemptions, from gay marriage to euthanasia; from secular abortion counselling to internet censorship - and much more.

It will also get atheism a heap of publicity and prompt people a) to think about their beliefs and b) realize there is a large, supportive community of atheists in Australia which is part of a huge international network.

Amen...I mean Ramen ooops, sounds too much like religion:)

[gord]

Who cares if they are touchy. Why not agressively argue with them? Why do religious people have the 'right' to sell their belief to every man, woman and their dog and atheists are discourged from promoting their beliefs (or lack of belief as the case may be). Why should us non-believers tip toe around believers scared of the risk of offending someone? They sure as shit don't care about offending atheists by imposing their beliefs on us.

Atheists becoming mobilised is vital in ensuring the separation of church and state in this country and I for one am sick of being dictated to by the religious fruity loops telling me what I can and can't do with my time, money and body.

So, back to the original topic - I think Richard Dawkins and his high profile can only be a good thing for stimulating discussion about the matter. I don't think listening to 'experts' speak on a matter like Atheism is to reinforce my beliefs, it is to learn more. Eg. if you were a scientist and there was a famous group of scientists having a conference you might well decide to attend to learn more from the experts in the field. I see Richard Dawkins and the AFA convention the same way.

Absolutely!

I'm fairly impressed the lengths Dawkins goes to remain civil in conversation with complete nutters.

I used to think that it was polite and good manners to tiptoe around a persons religious beliefs - ie. amend my conversation to that persons beliefs for the sake of harmony. But the percentage of believers who would do the same when talking to an atheist is in fact negligible, and look at the world around us, religion is being forced down peoples throats.

Dawkins sometimes comes across as arrogant, but I think that's just our over-biased conditioning - at least he has the guts to stand up and argue for the truth, in a time when your life can be in danger for doing so.


Maybe the conference should also have some specific goals for action towards, along with being a celebration of non-belief in a god?

For example, a petition to keep church and state seperate in Australia [with clear examples of infractions] which most attendees would be happy to sign.. Or a specific lobby approach to the government might be effective with the numbers of conference goers concentrated.

[angelo]

I love the way he questions the claimants of faith. Never rude, always a gentleman. I wonder how he controls his temper from such obvious nutters googlespeak.

[Chrys Stevenson]

Maybe the conference should also have some specific goals for action towards, along with being a celebration of non-belief in a god?


Great point gord! Speakers have been asked to include specific 'calls for action' in their presentations.

[starr]

I am definitely going to the convention (I've already booked my full weekend pass).

I can't wait. :D

[Seamus]

Mmmm.

Is it really necessary to go and see Richard Dawkins?

Does any atheist feel insecure enough about their belief that they need to go to what could be described as an evangelistic tour?

Perhaps it's just me! Personally, I feel that Richard is a very angry person and rubs theists up the wrong way with his agressive, penetrating ways.

I prefer to be the atheist that theists love rather than one that causes theists to say "See, they are all like that!"

Sorry, Richard, but I think that you are way OTT!

Thanks for your post.

I was beginning to think I was alone in my opinion of Saint Richard.

I see him as philosophy's Michael Moore. (Hitchens less so,as he doesn't seem quite as as bright)

[robertkd]

It's not really practical for me to attend, don't get me wrong I would otherwise.

The biggest issue we face is apathy so these sorts of things allow for at least the public profile of atheism to be lifted in the general media, no doubt this will have mixed reaction but it will bring coverage.

This apathy is highlighted in various attitudes in posts even on this forum!

The fact that goofy fundamentalists are getting traction is not because of their beliefs, NO PEOPLE, it's because they are politically active and promote themselves and push their agenda and without (hardly) any opposition it's no wonder they are getting their way, I guess that's what setting in the corner pretending it will be alright and things will work them selves out gets you!

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

Remember too they outnumber us by a large factor.

[Praxis]

Remember too they outnumber us by a large factor.
Not necessarily. I firmly believe (based on the most recent Census figures, amongst other things) that there are probably far more atheists/agnostics out there than anyone realises. Many are, for various reasons, unable to unwilling to publicly declare their non-belief, and of course, that old stalwart, General Apathy also plays a large role.

So no, I don't think they do outnumber us "by a large factor" in reality. Louder and more organised/motivated doesn't equal "more".

I think Australia will be quite surprised to see the numbers attending the convention actually.

Cheers.

[robertkd]

@Praxis

Are along these lines

http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showpost.php?p=31863&postcount=7

I was goofing of looking fro figures as the idea struck me that part of the situation is the "traditional" religious association, in that well they have always been part of our social system more from historical involvement.

I was trying to find data to identify the situation one report indicates church attendance as well below 10% of the population.

That leads me to consider census data as most probably skewed based on people simply putting something instead of being dare I say honest with their true beliefs or lack there of.

anyway food for thought ;)

[angelo]

Remember too they outnumber us by a large factor.
You may have say, 20 people at a party. Out of that twenty, perhaps 4 maximum are atheist. The rest are either christians and to a lesser degree, mild agnostics. That has been my experience anyway.

[Praxis]

You may have say, 20 people at a party. Out of that twenty, perhaps 4 maximum are atheist. The rest are either christians and to a lesser degree, mild agnostics. That has been my experience anyway.
We're obviously attending different parties ;)

[angelo]

I think it depends on the people you mix with. I been of Italian extraction have many friends who like me have been brought up in a catholic environment
Not everyone had the passion to find out where the delusion of a god came from. I suppose most don't give it a thought and continue in their beliefs even though they no longer attend mass. The only time they may go to a church is for a wedding or a funeral as do I. Ask such people whether they believe in a god, most would answer yes because they just don't care and haven't been taught that we evolved over many billions of years. Most have only been to christian schools where creation is still taught.

[Logic]

Just wondering, at this conference I assume people will register and the name given at time of registration will be placed on 'name tags' or those card things on lanyards.... Will people be encouraged to give their AFA username which will be printed in brackets under their real name to help with networking? Maybe this is a suggestion rather than a question. :)

Just bumping this back up - anyone involved in organising the conference know whether this will be happening?

[Logic]

If I was going, I'd have printed a small sticker of my Mr Goat avatar to put on the ID near my photo.

Thanks Protium

Good idea Black :)