Kids and mortality; Where did the dog go?

[Craftycarp]

My boy was talking about "dog heaven" the other day - our family dog recently died and is apparently (probably according to one of his friends) running around happy as Larry up there.

I don't know that I have the heart to bust his illusions about the fate of his beloved pet. He's only 7 - I reckon I might let it slide and bring it up later.

Anyone got any kind ways to break the news his dog probably isn't enjoying an afterlife?

[Senexis]

You may be on to something there, Mr Black.

Heaven (not just the dog kind) is in the hearts of the people who loved the departed.

<rolls it around, savours the flavour>

Yes, I like this one. I think I'm going to see how young Master Senexis finds it next time he asks about Heaven.

[Darwinsbulldog]

My doggy heaven consists of a bunch of naked nubile women from the five continents feeding me grapes and tending to my every desire! :p:p:p:p:):D:D
It is all in the mind of the doggie!

[djarm67]

Just tell him that a dog sniffing another dogs butt is a sin. Then ask, did you ever see rover sniff another dogs butt?

The unfortunate consequence of doggie heaven is ....doggie hell.

[Brisbane Atheist]

Truth is always the best policy, even for little ones there is no need to lie and ingrain supernatural ideas into your child.
I like Blacks idea of living on in your son's heart and think it is an effective strategy. I prefer to tell them the dog lives on in your memory's which is more or less the same thing i guess. I tell them that everytime you think of the good times you had with your dog, he comes back to life in your mind and this will make you happy after your son has greived for a sufficent time. I tell them they can regale with your friends about the goodtimes you had with your dog, and relive his life for a few moments.
I think this will provide comfort for your child, and doesn't put bizarre ideas in thier heads.

[RealityRules]

Kid have a sensitive period around 7-8 yrs of age, so I would not discuss it at present - no harm in letting it go for a few years?

[Fearless]

I think there is no harm generally for children to let their imaginations run free a little.

A few children I have turned back to the child and said "what do you want to believe?". As long as it's not an outright lie you are feeding them in return, I believe it's ok to let them find their own way of coping with loss (if they can).

So if pooch is running around with the family goldfish in the sky then that's ok.

If the child asked me outright if there was a heaven I would give my honest response. Children are very influential anyway by parents so as much as there is no need to lie, your view/belief etc should be enough said plain and simply.

As long as they grow out of it but that sort of developmental stage varies from one child to another anyway.

If my religious mother on the other hand said 'Fred is in heaven' to a child of mine, I would be having a quiet word with her later.

It's the groomers you need to watch. Meanwhile children can have their innocence as long as it lasts.

[Senexis]

It's the groomers you need to watch.

Hear, hear!

[loubert]

mmm that reminds me of rainbow bridge.

http://www.petloss.com/rainbowbridge.htm

[Sir Patrick Crocodile]

My boy was talking about "dog heaven" the other day - our family dog recently died and is apparently (probably according to one of his friends) running around happy as Larry up there.

I don't know that I have the heart to bust his illusions about the fate of his beloved pet. He's only 7 - I reckon I might let it slide and bring it up later.

Anyone got any kind ways to break the news his dog probably isn't enjoying an afterlife?Get him to watch Walt Disney's The Lion King as the "circle of life" thing is the most realistic explanation I can think of.

Alternatively you can save him the hassle and just let him know that the dog is at least no longer suffering all that pain and he is not going to any heaven or hell or anything like that; he's gone for good.

[Craftycarp]

I'll let it rest for a bit. Let him work on it himself and answer his questions when he wants to ask them.

[Mister Pervert]

Dog heaven, CC, is in the hearts of the people who have loved the dog.

Some dogs are very loved, and their people are very big-hearted: there's plenty of room for the memory of a dog to chase frisbies through the palaces of memory.

Hey! Where's the damn "LIKE" button?

[aglassman]

My boy was talking about "dog heaven" the other day - our family dog recently died and is apparently (probably according to one of his friends) running around happy as Larry up there.

I don't know that I have the heart to bust his illusions about the fate of his beloved pet. He's only 7 - I reckon I might let it slide and bring it up later.

Anyone got any kind ways to break the news his dog probably isn't enjoying an afterlife?

I tell people and children (when it's appropriate ) that everyone leaves something behind and that includes animals.

Humans may leave a book a hand made article that reminds us of them, maybe pictures and of course, with these things there are memories.

Most dogs have collars, I have 7 hanging on a hook, each one reminds me of one of my dogs. Maybe the collar can be a special reminder for your boy? Maybe a special picture of the dog could be good then the dog is always there.

I am not suggesting you use this but a look at, "The Rainbow Bridge" on youtube or google. This is the animal version of heaven. It is a feel good thing for dog lovers.

[Emmy]

I tell people and children (when it's appropriate ) that everyone leaves something behind and that includes animals.

Humans may leave a book a hand made article that reminds us of them, maybe pictures and of course, with these things there are memories.

Most dogs have collars, I have 7 hanging on a hook, each one reminds me of one of my dogs. Maybe the collar can be a special reminder for your boy? Maybe a special picture of the dog could be good then the dog is always there.

I am not suggesting you use this but a look at, "The Rainbow Bridge" on youtube or google. This is the animal version of heaven. It is a feel good thing for dog lovers.

Rainbow bridge is a beautiful poem. I printed it out on a page with a nice dog boarder and then gave it to my bf of the time. He loved it.

7 of your dogs have died? I couldnt even imagine owning that many in my whole life!

[Treehouseman]

Perhaps you could tell him the truth and tell him his dog is in the process of becoming a Star?

Entropy and radioactive decay might be a bit out of the way for him, but seeing as planets are on the way to becoming space dust (and back again) it might be not beyond an imaginative child's worldview to know that stars are actually the end result of dogs and loved ones.

When he gets older he may appreciate distance and time-scales, but it certainly will satisfy an internal narrative of "Where Does Fido Go?" when he dies. And he can pick out the star his dog has/will become.

[Bolero]

My doggy heaven consists of a bunch of naked nubile women from the five continents feeding me grapes and tending to my every desire! :p:p:p:p:):D:D
It is all in the mind of the doggie!

As long as it includes doggie-style....wouldn't be heaven otherwise, would it?

(On a serious note, Mr Black, you've said it perfectly.) (Again.)

[deesl4e]

My doggy heaven consists of a bunch of naked nubile women from the five continents feeding me grapes and tending to my every desire! :p:p:p:p:):D:D
It is all in the mind of the doggie!
I can see it now. BD lying back being fed grapes by:
A European Rottweiler.
An Asian Shar pei.
An American Pit Bull Terrier.
A Dogo Argentino.
An Aussie Blue Heeler.
Oh. And for good measure shall we throw in a Rhodesian Ridgeback.

Heavens full of bitches aint it.:p:p:D

[Roger]

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p88/shreky_01/holy-testimony-jesus-dogs.jpg

[Cosmic Teapot]

I need to suck on the teat of rational wisdom concerning kids and what to tell them about death. But first; an epilogue.

My wife and I have and a fantastic, smart little 2 year old boy. He's an atheist only because he's yet to find a religion that involves dinosaurs or Thomas the Tank Engine. Raptor Jesus is so far unknown to him. He is not christened or baptised (despite his grandmother's hints) and has no godparents.
I'm an agnostic atheist through active, rational consideration but the wife is more of an apatheist. She cares not about belief or disbelief, showing the same lack of interest to both. She was raised in a vaguely Anglican family and went to an Anglican private girls school, the same one as her Mother and Grandmother went to. Despite her exposure to Christian doctrine, she views religion and religious views (for and against) as abstract concepts that don't concern her and devotes zero brain real estate to the subject. If pressed, she will say she thinks there's some "higher power" but the concept is as nebulous and unformed as a jellyfish fart. She has never said "Jesus is my Lord and saviour" in her entire life and I doubt she ever will.
Unfortunately, it appears that the notion of a "higher power" isn't the only splinter of religion that has lodged in her psyche.
Here's where I need some advice.

We were recently discussing the advancing age of one of our dogs with (the child henceforth to be known as) Billy when my lovely wife made reference to the dog going to heaven some day soon. Wifey say what?!?
I discreetly made comment that neither dogs nor anything else goes to heaven since it's an imaginary location. We agreed to discuss it later, which we did.

Her Stance: There's no harm in using Heaven to soften the blow of death. Teaching him the reality of mortality is too harsh for a young child to grasp without causing lots of fear.

My Stance: Heaven is one of the two main control mechanisms in christianity. The other one is Hell. They're a matching set and if you introduce one as real, it becomes trivial to then accept the other as real. Where you find the carrot, the whip can't be far behind. If he accepts that heaven and hell are real, he's then open to the mind virus that is christianity. After all, who decides who goes to heaven and who goes to hell? It's not fucking Donald Trump ("You're fired...literally!"). ;)

To some degree, I agree that the reality of mortality might be a little bleak to teach to Billy but I simply can't find any alternatives that aren't based on religion or woo.
I went through a similar conundrum concerning teaching him about Santa as I saw it as a conceptual framework that acts as a placeholder for later belief in god. The difference here is, most kids stop believing in Santa and learn from their peers that anyone who still believes after a certain age is liable to be teased but kids who are taught to believe in heaven and hell rarely stop believing regardless of their age.

How did you/would you teach a toddler about mortality?
Realism or Fluff? If fluff, what kind of fluff?

I thank you in advance for any advice.

[Cosmic Teapot]

@Mr Pot: There was an existing thread on doggy mortality, which seemed to fit nicely with this.

I have taken the liberty of joining the two.

Thank you Mr. Black. My quick search of "Kids, Death, mortality" did not find the original thread and I felt using "heaven" would've returned too many unrelated results.

Whilst some of the responses are helpful I think there's a big difference between what you tell a 7 year old and what you tell a 2 year old.
Personally, I would like to see this subject discussed a little further but that's not up to me.

[Goldenmane]

There's nothing harsh about addressing the issue of death directly and without fluffy bullshit. Death is a simple reality, and needn't be treated as the massive freak-worthy issue that it is. Kids learn to freak out about that shit precisely because it is considered taboo, and understanding of it kept from them.

Hell, that's one of the reasons to have pets, in my view: their deaths provide opportunities to address the fundamental fact of life: its end.

[Lilith]

There's no harm in using Heaven to soften the blow of death. Teaching him the reality of mortality is too harsh for a young child to grasp without causing lots of fear."As the twig is bent, so the tree's inclined."

Exposure to reality has the happy side-effect of leaving a child with a pretty good idea of what it is and how to deal with it.
Plant the seed at this age that death is something to be feared and coated in sugar to be bearable and that's what your child will believe into adulthood.

It was only a couple of years ago that we moved off my farm - my sprogs have seen the full circle of life in everything from chickens to cattle to people and they deal with it now with (what I think is) a very healthy pragmatism.
I am of the opinion that in children with only exposure to the longer lifecycles of people and the occasional pet, it would be more important to take the opportunity to propagate healthy coping mechanisms by dealing with it realisticly.

[Cosmic Teapot]

There's nothing harsh about addressing the issue of death directly and without fluffy bullshit. Death is a simple reality, and needn't be treated as the massive freak-worthy issue that it is. Kids learn to freak out about that shit precisely because it is considered taboo, and understanding of it kept from them.

Hell, that's one of the reasons to have pets, in my view: their deaths provide opportunities to address the fundamental fact of life: its end.

I get where you're coming from but I see your suggestion going one of two ways:

1. Kid freaks out about the finality of death. Realises everyone has a permanent banhammer poised over their head. Becomes anxious.

2. Kid just casually accepts that when someone dies, they cease to exist and moves on.

The problem is, I'm not sure which way he'll go and you can't stuff that genie back into the bottle.
I wish there was a soft option that he could discard when he's better able to process the reality of death.
Ironically, when I tried inventing a soft option to take the sting out of death, it always ended up sounding like heaven with a different label. Hmmm, might be something to that. ;)

[Loki]

No cats or dogs, but a few fish and lizards and 3 birds that unexplainedly turned up on our driveway dead (hit by passing cars I think). Never insinuated heaven into the pet death equation and don't believe that either increased or decreased the grieving.

The only problem I have had with spawn (7 now) is that he keeps wanting to dig them up and rebuild their skeletons as display items. The dead snake in a jar of alcohol he keeps by the front window has reduced the passing tradesmen traffic markedly.

[Goldenmane]

I get where you're coming from but I see your suggestion going one of two ways:

1. Kid freaks out about the finality of death. Realises everyone has a permanent banhammer poised over their head. Becomes anxious.

2. Kid just casually accepts that when someone dies, they cease to exist and moves on.

The problem is, I'm not sure which way he'll go and you can't stuff that genie back into the bottle.
I wish there was a soft option that he could discard when he's better able to process the reality of death.
Ironically, when I tried inventing a soft option to take the sting out of death, it always ended up sounding like heaven with a different label. Hmmm, might be something to that. ;)

I think the kid is only likely to freak out over the finality of death if it is presented as something... momentous, rather than trivial.

As Lilith referred to above, I'm one of the least-freaked-out-about-death people I know, and I think that was largely due to the fact that I grew up on farms, where death is a fact of life.

[Cosmic Teapot]

Ok, seems the current consensus is to avoid any soft option and go with the realism approach.
Any ideas how to approach that? Everytime I try to think of a way, it's full of wanky platitudes that equate dead people to heart worms. (+10 if you know what platitude I'm thinking of)

[Lilith]

I'm not sure I'd present death as trivial.. I've never met a farmer so pragmatic that they could shrug off the death of their wife or child etc. It is a big deal to lose someone - and at 7, losing your dog is a pretty big chunk of the world that's missing.
It doesn't have to be a casual thing to deal with death, mourning and grief and the sense of loss that accompanies someone/thing close to you dying are all pretty big emotions and perfectly natural - the difference is how you deal with them.
Do you try to smother them with the pillow of "Well they're not really gone, they're in heaven and one day you'll see them again." or do you open the gate to feeling them healthily with "Yes, it's very sad that we wont be seeing Grandad any more, but wow, didn't he have a great time while he was here? .. Did you know that he did X, Y & Z in his life? And he loved you so much, spending time with you made him so happy." until eventually remembering Grandad becomes a happy thing.

It's vomitously soppy, but the old "Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened." has been very comforting to my kids when they've dealt with loss. My point, I guess, is that how you teach them to deal with the 'little' deaths (Their dog/goldfish/cat etc) plays a big role in how they will deal with the big ones.

Just as an aside - It's an old farmer practice (And I think where the phrase "She'll come up apples." comes from, though that's just a random thought that's just occured to me, not something I know for sure. :P ) to plant an apple tree on top of a dead dog - probably because, as stoic as they would like to appear, some of them can be endearingly sentimental in private ;) ... That, and it makes great apples. Doing that might give your son a better impression of the cyclic nature of things in a positive way.

[Goldenmane]

Ok, seems the current consensus is to avoid any soft option and go with the realism approach.
Any ideas how to approach that? Everytime I try to think of a way, it's full of wanky platitudes that equate dead people to heart worms. (+10 if you know what platitude I'm thinking of)

Platitude: "They live on in our hearts"?

We buried the dead cat under the fig tree, and talked about decomposition and recycling of nutrients. Made no fuss. Simple and straightforward.

The terribly unwell chook which got hurt by the dog, we put down humanely, after discussing whether it was better to try to keep it alive (unlikely to be successful, and likely to involve much suffering on the part of the chook) vs. putting it out of pain.

Again, pragmatic and straightforward, without fuss.

[Loki]

I just went with the "he had a good life and you looked after him really well and he was very very old for a siamese fighting fish" (reinforcing the "you looked after him well and gave him a good life" bit). It was a bit harder with the stick insects which died cause they weren't fed while I was off working but the same sort of things did the job there as well. Simply reinforce the good things and include the kid in those good things.

Several other little pets have simply vanished in the night and don't appear to have been missed, guess you can't do that with a dog though. Dogs and cats are a bit different cause they are bigger and interact more, but I'm not sure the difference is quite as great in the mind of a child as for an adult. Patience and the same sorts of reinforcement are still the way I would go.

[Cosmic Teapot]

Platitude: "They live on in our hearts"?
+10 to you Sir.

We buried the dead cat under the fig tree, and talked about decomposition and recycling of nutrients. Made no fuss. Simple and straightforward.

The terribly unwell chook which got hurt by the dog, we put down humanely, after discussing whether it was better to try to keep it alive (unlikely to be successful, and likely to involve much suffering on the part of the chook) vs. putting it out of pain.

Again, pragmatic and straightforward, without fuss.

Ah, I think I have a solution...

"Sorry Billy, we had to put Spot down. Let me introduce Mr. GoldenMane; he'll explain the whole thing to you"
;)

[Goldenmane]

Ah, I think I have a solution...

"Sorry Billy, we had to put Spot down. Let me introduce Mr. GoldenMane; he'll explain the whole thing to you"
;)

:D

Of course, I didn't explain this shit to a 2-year-old. When he was that age, I just said, "It's dead."

[Cosmic Teapot]

:D

Of course, I didn't explain this shit to a 2-year-old. When he was that age, I just said, "It's dead."
I admire your ecomomy with words, however, we're entering the "Why?" stage.
I may have to enter the "Just because..." stage. ;)

[cyclist]

I grew up on a farm, and I remember as a relatively young child seeing a dog die (it got run over, that'll teach him to run in front of the truck).

I remember being upset over it, but it was a working dog, so I suppose I never saw it too much as a pet.

That said, when my parents Jack Russell died a couple of years ago (which was originaly bought for me as a pet), I was very upset.

I think that the idea of them living on in our memories is the path that I would try and take, but I don't know how I would go if the child started asking more difficult questions.

James

[Goldenmane]

I admire your ecomomy with words, however, we're entering the "Why?" stage.
I may have to enter the "Just because..." stage. ;)

Personally, I am of the view that "Why?" is ultimately a Very Silly Question. Sure, you can respond with "Because he got old, and worn out, and important bits of him stopped working." The problem with that approach is that it kinda feeds into the notion that There Is A Reason For Everything, a sentiment I don't agree with.

I'm more inclined to encourage the question "How?" as in, "How does stuff work?"

I mean, you can explain that entropy is an apparently fundamental feature of the universe as we understand it, and essentially that means "shit wears out", in a limited sense, but that's really just blurring the line between how and why.

[Goldenmane]

I grew up on a farm, and I remember as a relatively young child seeing a dog die (it got run over, that'll teach him to run in front of the truck).

I remember being upset over it, but it was a working dog, so I suppose I never saw it too much as a pet.

That said, when my parents Jack Russell died a couple of years ago (which was originaly bought for me as a pet), I was very upset.

I think that the idea of them living on in our memories is the path that I would try and take, but I don't know how I would go if the child started asking more difficult questions.

James

Bear in mind, I'm aware that there are emotional components involved, and I'm not saying that they shouldn't be addressed. We're a social ape, and that (in part) means that grief is a part of our make-up. I just don't see the point to papering over that grief with fairy stories, rather than acknowledging the apparent reality: living things die, and once they have, the various bits and pieces turn into other shit.

Then again, I'm not a fan of encouraging the frankly natural but (upon reflection) bizarre notion that people are sky-pilots inhabiting meat-puppets. It's natural for the brain to formulate that sort of model, because it cannot "feel" itself as a physical structure (like the limbs, for example) - no sensory nerves in the brain. It's an illusion, though.

[Charmie]

We were recently discussing the advancing age of one of our dogs with (the child henceforth to be known as) Billy when my lovely wife made reference to the dog going to heaven some day soon.

Just wanted to let you know we went through this last August with our then 3 year old son when we had to make the humane decision to have our 17 year old cattle cross bullie put to sleep. Our son too is intelligent and emotional, but thankfully very self-centered as they tend to be at that age. We just explained the facts and he coped fine - much better indeed than us, as our dog was just like our first child to us. He asked after him a few times after that and I reminded him of our earlier talks about it. And now at his prompting we still occasionally talk about the good times we used to have with our dog and our son says he misses him. Although I don't remember ever believing in heaven as a child, I do remember feeling frightened about the concept of heaven. It was all just a bit too foreign for me, and I don't want my children feeling that way. I guess it was an easy decision for us though, as my husband and I are on the same page with this kind of stuff.

[DanDare]

My daughter lost a pet mouse at the age of 5 and a human uncle at the age of 6 from a brain tumor. She saw both dead bodies and we discussed death on both occasions, no fluff.

At sixteen she has some death anxiety and we talk about it. So do I for that matter. Neither of us are about to retreat into unreality because of it though.

[lulu]

@DanDare - When I was 16 I used to break into a cold sweat at the thought of death. I was heavily into church youth groups and teaching Sunday School then, so I suspect that many 16 year olds have death anxiety regardless of the woo (or not woo) factor.

I still want to stay alive for as long as I can, but I am not panicked about the idea of not existing.

[Quintin]

Hello all my relations.
I was talking to a Christian friend of min and he asked that old chestnut; where do I think you go when you are dead?
After sleeping on it I realized that ans a small child I learned about death and my own mortality a little later but I was never told about an afterlife until about the age of 9.
So until then death, to me, was an end like a movie 'The End' or the last page of a novel.

Telling children about the horrors of an after life would, I guess, be a lot more difficult to come to terms with.
Comments?

PS I am living in Canberra and will be attending the 2012 GAC.

http://youtu.be/rNipPflBTdI

[Wyz]

I always answer this by saying "I will be when I die, what I was before I was born."

[SchrodingersWombat]

I really can't spruik this book nearly enough:

http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Practical-Parenting-Beyond/dp/0814410960/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315325253&sr=8-1

To buy: http://www.bookdepository.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Dale-McGowan/9780814410967

Everything from talking about rationality, to science, to teaching comparative religion and how to deal with their fear of death. Great resource.

[DanDare]

Thanks SW that's gone straight on my must buy list.

[SchrodingersWombat]

Thanks SW that's gone straight on my must buy list.

http://www.youtube.com/user/PBBChannel

He has a few videos on a dead youtube channel too.

[Bolero]

I really can't spruik this book nearly enough:

http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Practical-Parenting-Beyond/dp/0814410960/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315325253&sr=8-1

To buy: http://www.bookdepository.com/Raising-Freethinkers-Dale-McGowan/9780814410967

Everything from talking about rationality, to science, to teaching comparative religion and how to deal with their fear of death. Great resource.

Yep, a friend loaned this to me - great stuff.

[CoachPedro]

I've found myself in a few tricky situations lately.

I'm a step father. The kids live with their Dad & step mum. One weekend a few things contributed to the death of the family rabbit. The kids weren't directly involved in the act. It was an accident. Largely done by their step sister. Anyway...when they came over to spend the weekend at their mothers & my place they started to ask questions like all kids do about dying. Their mum is a...well...she has some religious views (on the lines of being anglican. The kids were baptized in an anglican church).

When they spoke with me about it I ended up being...clever about what I said. I didn't want to speak out of turn...on the other hand I wanted to say what I felt was right. I told them that the rabbit went to the same place as before he was born & that he was safe.

this is based on mark twains quote of 'I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit.'

[Slothhead]

I dont have children, however, as the sister in law is having a child it is interesting to see how a parent is beginning to grapple with particular concepts, though I am not confident in many of her outcomes, despite both her and her partner being “well educated” people (undergraduate and postgraduate levels).

For example, she is baptizing her child. WHY? Not because she is religious as she marked not religious on the census. Not because of the family being religious as no one is, but purely because Quote “Its just what you do”.

If having a boy it was to be circumcised WHY? “Its just the done thing”. Recently the talk of easter and santa got brought up, to which of course the child is having all those things. So I am guessing in that situation the heaven concept will be the norm until the child is older.

So this leads me to wonder – is this the better response? Is it better to tell the lies when they are at an age where grappling with such concepts may not be possible. Is it better to just put the whole thing off until a later time?

Personally I never had the discussion with my parents. Due to public schooling I was educated about heaven.

While I don’t remember believing in heaven I don’t think I ever thought about the question “well where do you go then”. Can a 5-10 year old grapple with the concept of existence. Do they really understand this?

So many questions.

[Slothhead]

this is based on mark twains quote of 'I was dead for millions of years before I was born and it never inconvenienced me a bit.'


I think this line dodges the fundamental issue at the heart of death.

While it is the case that ones physical position on death is the same both before and after death, it seems that this is not what people are talking about. People are looking to grapple with the transition of death. That is the distressing thing. Because we can imagine things, then we can imagine not having life, and the Mark Twain line does nothing to resolve that.

We don’t want life to be over. I know I don’t. I think it sucks to have to die, I enjoy living. It is like watching a really good movie, or eating a really nice cake and not getting full. Why would you want to stop?

I don’t think people are concerned really about what happens after one dies. Annihilation of the body is not the concern, it is that there is no more experience; there is no more cake, no more laughs, no more movies. I don’t even think Tennyson’s poem captures the issue, “is it better to have loved and lost”, is it better to have lived and died than never to have lived. This doesn’t seem to work. It is the hardest thing to imagine because it is so final. That is what seems to be the issue.

[SchrodingersWombat]

For example, she is baptizing her child. WHY? Not because she is religious as she marked not religious on the census. Not because of the family being religious as no one is, but purely because Quote “Its just what you do”.

[COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]If having a boy it was to be circumcised WHY? “Its just the done thing”.

I had to deal with this recently as well. Ultimately I figured I was OK with being the bad guy for hours while I challenged everything left, right and centre about appealing to tradition. Being the bad guy for a few hours turned into a few weeks, but ultimately I got the point across.

As far as Baptism goes, yeah it's annoying, but its not going to cause any lasting damage. Circumcision on the other hand is child abuse, and I'll stand up for my future nephews since I know that no one else will.

[hooa]

My boy was talking about "dog heaven" the other day - our family dog recently died and is apparently (probably according to one of his friends) running around happy as Larry up there.

I don't know that I have the heart to bust his illusions about the fate of his beloved pet. He's only 7 - I reckon I might let it slide and bring it up later.

Anyone got any kind ways to break the news his dog probably isn't enjoying an afterlife?

In my experience ... kids take the truth really well ... Both of my children, when I explained that there is probably nothing after death and that when we die, we are gone. I explained that we can stay alive in memory, so its important to think often about a deceased loved one and to talk about them. ... (I said something like that anyway) ... They just nodded their heads with a wise understanding. They just accept it. Kids are amazing.

[CoachPedro]

We don’t want life to be over. I know I don’t. I think it sucks to have to die, I enjoy living. It is like watching a really good movie, or eating a really nice cake and not getting full. Why would you want to stop?


Believe it or not...that is actually one of the best quotes I've read in a while. I love exercising. I love eating chocolate. I love watching movies. Making love. Listening to music. Spending time with my step kids....I don't want it to ever end. As George Harrison put it 'All things must end'...



Right you are though, my response didn't actually directly give them the info that they wanted. Since I'm a step parent and both kids interact with their natural parents...the general rule is that I leave a lot of parenting up to them. I didn't want to rock the boat (with their mother) so I gave as best response as I thought was needed.

[Logic]

Overheard MIL telling niece where is Grandma XX? Niece responds 'um, in heaven?' MIL says 'that's right' very proudly. Strange to me as MIL is not religious. Why lie? Lucky that wasn't my kid - a correction would have been in order along the lines of 'for some people heaven is a word they give to describe our fond memories of someone who has died'. Their Dad is an atheist...he'd probably be interested to know that's what MIL is telling them.

[lulu]

We were all devastated last week at the death of our much loved golden retriever, only 6 years old. She swallowed a large piece of bone (not cooked) which damaged her oesophagus. The vet operated after a few nights of hospital stay while they tried to diagnose the problem, but they rang me to say it would be cruel and unethical to let her wake up.

Cue floods of tears and very heavy hearts. No questions from the offspring about where she is now (my kids are 9, 10 and 12) - they know she is just dead.

Today we received a sympathy card from the vet. It was nice that they waited almost a week and that they sent the card before the bill (not looking forward to that). My objection is to the saccharine schmaltzy 'poem' printed on the card: The Rainbow Bridge.

http://rainbowsbridge.com/poem.htm

The kids think it is stupid. We know we won't see her again and we are saddened by that, but we are glad we had her for the time we did.

I will pick my time to mention my feelings about the sympathy card to the vets. The Rainbow Bridge makes me feel nauseous.

[Logic]

We were all devastated last week at the death of our much loved golden retriever, only 6 years old. She swallowed a large piece of bone (not cooked) which damaged her oesophagus. The vet operated after a few nights of hospital stay while they tried to diagnose the problem, but they rang me to say it would be cruel and unethical to let her wake up.

Cue floods of tears and very heavy hearts. No questions from the offspring about where she is now (my kids are 9, 10 and 12) - they know she is just dead.

Today we received a sympathy card from the vet. It was nice that they waited almost a week and that they sent the card before the bill (not looking forward to that). My objection is to the saccharine schmaltzy 'poem' printed on the card: The Rainbow Bridge.

http://rainbowsbridge.com/poem.htm

The kids think it is stupid. We know we won't see her again and we are saddened by that, but we are glad we had her for the time we did.

I will pick my time to mention my feelings about the sympathy card to the vets. The Rainbow Bridge makes me feel nauseous.

So sorry to hear that. You've lost a family member :(

[Praxis]

So sorry to hear about your beloved dog :(

Yeah, the rainbow bridge stuff is vomitous. Unfortunately though, the vet has probably found that a great many of the clients are into it rather than sickened by it.

Still, I'd take it in the spirit that it was meant, not unlike rellies sending Jesus-y christmas cards - it's the thought that counts and in the end is a condolence card as you have lost a family member.

Take care.