Brother getting married in church

[c2105026]

Hello all,

My brother and his lady friend are betrothed to be married in September. Issue is that they are both non-religous (my brother is an out and out evolutionist btw) but have elected to get hitched in a uniting church. The fiance is wearing white, despite them probably having had sex by now. Why oh why do people persist with the cliche church wedding when so few use it on a regular basis? I will not be attending for various reasons (namely my last words to my brother was "just f**k off" and THAT was 3 weeks ago and we have not spoken since). I am tired of cliched white weddings. If I get married I might just choose a random type of service. A satanic service may well be in order, if just for kicks, and I suppose is as philosophically valid as me having a white christian wedding :p

[c2105026]

Basically I am jealous that he is getting married and I am not (not even close!), he is punching way above his weight with the bride-to-be, and I think he is getting married out of fear and desperation; to top it off I have always been in his shadow and that has caused poor self esteem etc. In closing when I removed him from my life my depression went in an intstant.

[Perspective]

Hello all,

My brother and his lady friend are betrothed to be married in September. Issue is that they are both non-religous (my brother is an out and out evolutionist btw) but have elected to get hitched in a uniting church. The fiance is wearing white, despite them probably having had sex by now. Why oh why do people persist with the cliche church wedding when so few use it on a regular basis? I will not be attending for various reasons (namely my last words to my brother was "just f**k off" and THAT was 3 weeks ago and we have not spoken since). I am tired of cliched white weddings. If I get married I might just choose a random type of service. A satanic service may well be in order, if just for kicks, and I suppose is as philosophically valid as me having a white christian wedding :p

I'm glad you brought this up cnumbers. My sister and her boyfriend (and soon to be fiance) have announced that they will get married in a Catholic Church, despite the fact that until this day they have ridiculed the church and any other religion. They're doing it to keep the folks happy. I would've liked to be her bridesmaid (never done it before and nice to share the moment with my sis) but now I feel like I might vomit at the alter after hearing the religious shit and knowing that they know it's all shit too.

I'm very suprised at their decision. I would have thought of all people, they would stay true to who they are. So I share your frustration!

At the end of the day, it's their choice though and I want her to enjoy her day - when it comes.

[Kimk]

I can understand the attraction of a church wedding, and i think it may have nothing to do with religion. It may have a lot more to do with having a great set for the more tacky white lace n tuxedo varities. Looks good in the vid. Also the social aspect of pleasing the rellies, especially the intractble oldies with their inflxible brains set in their ways. My daughter in laws grandfather did not come to her pagan wedding in our back yard, im sure if she had pretended to be a catholic she might have been able to talk to him again before he dies. Not now.

Recently my ex husband (we are still on good terms) asked me to speak to the catholic church on his behalf as his new fiancee is a catholic. The church 'tribunal' in brisbane sent me a letter requesting an interview! told him id probably do more damage than good if they were to ask me if he was a believer, i wouldnt lie for him, hes not. I couldnt believe how very intrusive they are! I was raised atheist (well, mum tried to read some bible to us once, but it was a rather dull story and much of it unsuitable for children where its not dull) so ive not had much first hand churchy experience.

[BlueDevil]

I would find it unfortunate if people 'rejected' close relatives simply because they chose to get married in a church.

I got married in a church despite being a non-believer for two reasons mainly:
- it was my wifes wish for her wedding day
- I am a trumpet enthusiast and needed a venue with an organ to accompany the trumpet player we engaged for the occasion (there are not a lot of venues suitable for weddings that have an organ, other than churches)

Would probably do things differently these days, but have no regrets as our wedding day was very memorable for us both.

[Fearless]

My wife and I got married in a chapel which was part of the reception facility we decided to part money with. Admittedly, there were no religious paraphernalia but we were well aware it was once a functioning chapel. To us, the chapel it was a building for people to sit in comfortably. As much as it was once used for sermons and religious ceremony, it was just a simple fucking building at the end of the day. We were married by a celebrant, my wife wore a white wedding dress and there was no religious rituals involved. It was the best day of my life.

Your wedding is what you make of it.

So what if the bride wears white really? My wife looked stunning to me in her dress and it had no religious significance. To think she shouldn't have worn white to recognise that she was no longer celibate is a ridiculous archaic ideal.

I think you are thinking too much into it. Long term I'd take a bet to say you would regret not putting your opinions aside and going to his wedding. Unless you REALLY hate him and his wife to be I think it is a little petty. Not going to the wedding due to jealousy is a bit immature don't you think? If they are both happy then surely that is the main thing in spite of what you think of her.

I am sorry about your depression, I can sympathise, but you can side step from his shadow and be your own man. I am sure one day, you will find your way regardless. Easier said than done maybe to you right now, but if you resent him because others compare you both it is hardly his fault. On the other hand, If he picks on you for not being like he is then he needs to grow up.

If you didn't care, I doubt you would have made this thread. I just think it a shame if you didn't put your differences aside and go. You may just find it could change things between you anyway.

As I said, if you REALLY hate him then so be it I guess.

p.s. My wife and I recently went to a zombie themed wedding... it was a hoot :D

[Perspective]

I'm sincerely glad it was a memorable day for you BD. Just curious, was it the Church setting or the Church vows which were important to her. It didn't take anything away for you having to accept the religious talk?

[Artemisia]

I didn't wear white but I was married in what was once a chapel. I love churches as wedding venues. They are gorgeous and practical and I honestly don't see the issue with choosing one for a wedding if it meets the needs of the couple.

[Xeno]

We married in a restaurant, I think between entree and the main course,
or was it before dessert, or did we have dessert first?

Anyway, it was terribly practical if you were there for a good time as we all were, a great evening enjoyed by all our friends, practically all of whom were non-believers or not admitting otherwise.

In 1976.

The bride wore red in a soft velvety sort of material (I don't know that stuff), hooded, fitted, full length.

[Perspective]

Very cool Xeno :) Mine was in a gazebo over a pond in the beautiful south region of WA. I had a total of 20 people and once the vows were done, we had a bbq and sat around the pool drinking. Loved it.

Of course I bought a cute blue dress, insisting I will only buy something that I can wear again. It's been hanging in my closet untouched since that day for 5 years now :rolleyes: It's my wedding dress! Can't wear it out again. Silly me :)

[BlueDevil]

I'm sincerely glad it was a memorable day for you BD. Just curious, was it the Church setting or the Church vows which were important to her. It didn't take anything away for you having to accept the religious talk?

My wife is not religious (although she dabbled many years ago, before we met) so I think it was mainly the 'tradition' of a church venue.

The religious content was quite minimal so it didn't spoil the ceremony for me. Although I was definitely an atheist back then I was probably not as 'involved' in atheism as I am now

Interestingly I found a fine young trumpet player, and also a talented organist to accompany him. It was the first time these two had met and played together. Some years later they have released a couple of CDs of trumpet and organ music. They are very fine classical recordings, and I heard one of them being played on ABC FM just recently.
For example http://www.move.com.au/disc/3273
So our church wedding inadvertently started a very worthwhile musical partnership.

[riddlemethis]

Basically I am jealous that he is getting married and I am not (not even close!), he is punching way above his weight with the bride-to-be, and I think he is getting married out of fear and desperation; to top it off I have always been in his shadow and that has caused poor self esteem etc. In closing when I removed him from my life my depression went in an intstant.

Are you for real?

[Atheos]

Basically I am jealous that he is getting married and I am not (not even close!), he is punching way above his weight with the bride-to-be, and I think he is getting married out of fear and desperation; to top it off I have always been in his shadow and that has caused poor self esteem etc. In closing when I removed him from my life my depression went in an intstant.

are you jealous he is getting married to her, or that he is getting married ?

[FSM]

The reason is simple - it's what the bride has always imagined... (a that's a more powerful force than any god :D)

Dave.

[FSM]

My wife is not religious (although she dabbled many years ago, before we met) so I think it was mainly the 'tradition' of a church venue.

The religious content was quite minimal so it didn't spoil the ceremony for me. Although I was definitely an atheist back then I was probably not as 'involved' in atheism as I am now


That's exactly the same with me.
Back then I wasn't the more militant athiest I am now, so I just went along with it.
It helped that the catholic priest was a pretty cool chain smoking dude with tats that I heard was supportive of gay marriage and it almost got him thrown out of the order :eek:
If I had got married now, I would have put up much more of a fight (and lost dismally of course :D)

Dave.

[robertkd]

Look it doesn't fucking matter really it's what you make of it.

Her and I were married in a church by a padre whom we also had many beers and discussions with he understood we were atheists heck we had 2 children but as weddings are statement of devotion between two people (fuck that evolutionary calling is strong) the setting worked for us and for family and friends and padre Bob done a wonderful service.

[wolty]

Hello all,

My brother and his lady friend are betrothed to be married in September. Issue is that they are both non-religous (my brother is an out and out evolutionist btw) but have elected to get hitched in a uniting church. I don't have a problem with that. I wouldn't do it, but they can do whatever they want.

The fiance is wearing white, despite them probably having had sex by now. Can't she wear whatever she wants?


Why oh why do people persist with the cliche church wedding when so few use it on a regular basis? Lots of reasons, parental pressure, the photos look really cool in a nice old building, it may well be cheaper than the alternative, the size of the building is 'just' right.

I will not be attending for various reasons (namely my last words to my brother was "just f**k off" and THAT was 3 weeks ago and we have not spoken since).That is your right.

I am tired of cliched white weddings. If I get married I might just choose a random type of service. A satanic service may well be in order, if just for kicks, and I suppose is as philosophically valid as me having a white christian wedding :pSame deal, your choice to do whatever you want.

I wouldn't want to think that the reason you had a fight with your brother was you projecting your preferences onto him. You have the right to do whatever you want, just as he does.

[wolty]

Basically I am jealous that he is getting married and I am not (not even close!), he is punching way above his weight with the bride-to-be, and I think he is getting married out of fear and desperation; to top it off I have always been in his shadow and that has caused poor self esteem etc. In closing when I removed him from my life my depression went in an intstant.

Try not to focus on him, focus on yourself. It's your life, live it as you see fit.

Hope it didn't come across as criticism. Concentrate on yourself. :)

[c2105026]

My not his going to the wedding does stem from jealousy and general disliking, not at all ideologically related. Like all along he said I would be his best man but then his fiance changed his mind for him, which I found offensive. To boot as a hopelessly single person weddings just make me feel shit about myself. I am 28 and have never had a relationship but have had 2 homosexual encounters that were a bit boring....I have dated 4 different women and one guy for a total of 8 dates over a 10 yr window. I identify as bisexual. To boot he is a successful high school teacher with plenty of money whilst I am a mature aged student (studying primary teaching) living with the parents on welfare. With the exception that I would say I am much more physically fit and attractive than him, I have nothing on him. Hence, more jealousy.

The root of my resentment towards him is that when we were kids I did something as an 8yo (he was 10) and it went on to basically ruin my adolescent and adult life. He was there, he could have stopped the act but out of peer pressure did not, he failed his 'duty' as a brother. He has since apologised but what is done is done. In addition dad focused all his parenting attention on my brother until I was 20. No wonder I never grew up as a well-adjusted male.....

I did cut him out of my life 2 years ago but talked me into 'taking him back'

[Annie]

Just to clarify:

Yes, I probably look like a cold-hearted bastard, giving my sister the flick. It wasn't done in a fit of pique.

I had forty-plus years of evidence we weren't ever going to get on.

No. You are only a cold hearted bastard Mr B if I am a cold hearted bastard too. I did the same with my sister after 38 years and life is all the better for having done so.

[Emmy]

I have cut my dad out of my life since Christmas and feel nothing but relief! So I understand that!

Cnumbers, you have a lot of issues and I think you are blaming your brother unfairly. You can't blame him for something he did when he was 10 - he was just a child! And you also can't blame him for his current successes - should he be a failure just so you can feel better about yourself? *As for him 'punching above his weight', what do you have against that? Good on him if he did well for himself!

I'm sorry to say this, but I really think it's you who has the problem. I think you need to get some help to stop feeling like a helpless victim who doesn't like other people being happy. I feel that you owe your brother and his fiancé an apology, and probably the rest of your family as well, for throwing a tantrum. I think you should stop feeling sorry for yourself and be a decent brother - be his best man and be the best damn best man you can, and throw him an amazing bachelor party, and try to be happy for them. Who knows, you may find the love of your life at the wedding (although it sounds like you have a lot of work to do on yourself before you think about getting into a relationship)!

You really need to change your whole mindset or you are going to have a miserable life. Up to you.*

[c2105026]

I have cut my dad out of my life since Christmas and feel nothing but relief! So I understand that!

Cnumbers, you have a lot of issues and I think you are blaming your brother unfairly. You can't blame him for something he did when he was 10 - he was just a child! And you also can't blame him for his current successes - should he be a failure just so you can feel better about yourself? *As for him 'punching above his weight', what do you have against that? Good on him if he did well for himself!

I'm sorry to say this, but I really think it's you who has the problem. I think you need to get some help to stop feeling like a helpless victim who doesn't like other people being happy. I feel that you owe your brother and his fiancé an apology, and probably the rest of your family as well, for throwing a tantrum. I think you should stop feeling sorry for yourself and be a decent brother - be his best man and be the best damn best man you can, and throw him an amazing bachelor party, and try to be happy for them. Who knows, you may find the love of your life at the wedding (although it sounds like you have a lot of work to do on yourself before you think about getting into a relationship)!

You really need to change your whole mindset or you are going to have a miserable life. Up to you.*

I don't blame him for his current successes - simply my exposure to them makes me feel shit about myself. In addition, I really feel that I am much more deserving, but luck has not gone my way, with the stupid decisions I have made. He is free to be successful but at least until things improve greatly for me I will not be part of his wonderful life. I can't even frigging punch well below my weight :P

I offered to be his best man at the outset but he refused due to Yoko, err, I mean my future sister-in-law interfering. I am proud of what I have done. It is a deliberate act, and one should never apologise for a deliberate act (accidents are much different however). I do not feel bad about it, in any way shape or form. Things are already on the up - since divorcing him, I have stopped suicidal thoughts and have stopped smoking completely. Binge eating has ground to a near halt. I will not ever apologise to my parents - via favouring him they indirectly brought this on themselves. Once I finish uni and start on a career I actually want to do rather than what was forced onto me I think everything will ultimately work out. For the record, I am seeing a therapist in a few weeks time...to ensure my depression never returns.

[Logic please]

@cnumbers: are you saying that you would feel happier / better about yourself if your situation were exactly the same, but things weren't going as "well" (based on your description) for your brother and bride-to-be?

[c2105026]

This time last year his situation did not exist and I still felt shit about myself, but for different reasons.

[Lilith]

A local minister offered to marry my hunnybunny and I, we've lived together for 10 years, even knowing that we're both atheists, because "it's a positive step towards us living a righteous life, even if we don't know it yet."

We told him that'd be great, and would he marry my other girlfriend to us at the same time too?
But apparently all of us being married isn't such a positive step. Go figure.


cnumbers, I can only pity your brother and his soon-to-be wife for having to take your victim stance, drama and self-pity into regard when planning what, for them, is a special day. Seems to me that the nicest wedding gift you could give them is to stay away.

The funny thing about luck, is that usually folks who take responsibility for their actions, pull their finger out and work hard to achieve their realistic goals and sincerely try to foster positive relationships with those around them seem to have bucketloads of it.

But yeah, your life has been one long tragedy, inflicted on you by a world of folk out to be big meanies to you. There there. There there.

[wolty]

For the record, I am seeing a therapist in a few weeks time...to ensure my depression never returns.

This is good. Sounds like you are taking control and looking after yourself with all the things you are doing. Onward and upward.

Cnumbers, many here have had experience of depression. Talking is good.

[BlueDevil]

Cognitive therapies such as Rational Emotive Behaviour Therapy are widely regarded as very effective forms of therapy and are very commonly used by psychotherapists. You may well find this is the approach the psychologist you are scheduled to see will take.

REBT blends in very well with atheism as it encourages a rational and scientific way of thinking.

An introduction to REBT (http://www.rational.org.nz/public/intro.htm)

REBT basics (http://www.rebtnetwork.org/whatis.html)

A short article on jealousy (http://www.24-7help.com/topics/Jealousy.php)

Windy Dryden is a highly regarded author on REBT:

24B3icSXz7k

[c2105026]

I really would like to be able to change my situation and increase my luck but it would have to take some very big, and possibly morally questionable changes to do so.

Every female in my life is either too young, too old, are unattractive (to me...), or have already rejecred me or otherwise spoken for. This is despite my being in a uni course with a 50/50 gender split, and the other special interest groups of which I am a member do not have any single, desireable age-appropriate females. I asked out someone about a month ago who I had liked for a very long time but....they had already started seeing someone. I could pursue the gay side of my sexuality (where, frankly I have to beat guys away with a stick), but.....most other gay/bi guys I have come across are really sleazy and/or desperate. Big turn off.

As for work, my uni timetable is all over the joint. Not so much that the hours are long but they are spread out, variable and every day at uni means a 90 minute round trip. I anticipate that if I find a part-time job during daytime either it or uni will become compromised. I could work at night in hospitality but I already did that, it only really works if you are young, blond and pretty (in Orange at least...). Working in a supermarket or fast food outlet means selling people the items that were my vices (tobacco, junk food, alcohol) which I would find hippocritical due to my now vocal disapproval of over indulgence in said things.

A move to bathurst could make things easier for finding work but any monies earned will be more than obliterated by lost Austudy and by having to pay rent, food, bills etc. where I currently pay nothing living with the parents who (btw their philosophy - 'you may as well have our help now when you really need it rather than 30 yrs time when you won't really need it').

So, looking at my life from the inside I am doing all I can (mixing with as many different people as I can, in a car club and a sporting club - that is all out here that tickles my fancy...), considering the choices I have made in the past, to get back in shape, to become healthy and well again, do develop fulfilling relationships of varying kinds with varying people. And still......life isn't what I really want it to be and I still feel like I'm in a bit of a rut......but it is much better than it has been.

[Voltairine]

White wedding dresses started as a fashion back in Victorian times. No surprise that the church jumped on the fashion bandwagon and declared it a "religious" (purity) colour for weddings. White is SO passé yet remains a favourite for females who plan their ideal weddings based on the distant dreams of their inner 6-year-old "princess". :rolleyes:

[Emmy]

It seems you need to get over your hatred of your sister-in-law to be. May I suggest you put any pride, hatred, anger etc aside, and request a one-on-one meeting with her to discuss your differences? Perhaps somewhere neutral - buy her lunch. This woman is going to be part of your family - maybe for the rest of your life. She may be the mother of your nieces and nephews, she will be there at Christmas, she will probably be involved in decisions when elderly family members die, etc, etc. You don't want this to fester and you dont want an enemy in your family. And who knows - you may actually find her to be a nice person and you could be really good friends. Accept that there may well be a good reason she doesn't want you involved in her wedding - and talk to her about it, ask her. Be open to listening to her point of view and accepting that you may be behaving badly. Try to find some common ground - the fact you both love your brother is a good start. *

I disagree with your comment about not apologising for a deliberate act. You should absolutely apologise for deliberately hurting someone - and do what you can to make up for it. Revenge and being petty is never going to make you feel good about yourself. It's just bad karma.*I have done deliberate things to hurt people in the past - and I am not proud of it and it never made me feel better. I apologised and repaired relationships and felt a great sense of relief afterwards. So do yourself a favour - change your attitude and repair relationships and give yourself some peace in your life.

The thing is, life sucks and it's not fair and luck is unpredictable. *My youngest sister is completely happy and has had a much more successful life so far than I have. But I don't at all hate her for it -in fact I am rapt for her - its wonderful. Despite her 'issues' being nothing next to the things I have had to deal with on my own, I help her out and am there for her as much as I can. But I also know that my life is far better than other peoples - I was complaining to my friend the other day, and she said "Are you tkidding me? You have the best life!". So really, if you put it into perspective, your life is far better than millions of people's and you have a lot to be grateful for. I mean, you could have been born into the Westboro family, for example! But you know what they say about luck - it takes a lot of hard work. Being physically attractive is luck - being physically fit takes hard work. If you dedicate the same amount of effort you use staying fit to being a decent and successful person, you may find yourself getting 'lucky'.

I also think that maybe you are imagining your parents favouring your brother. I bet they wouldn't see it that way, and your brother probably wouldn't either. Could it be that a lack of communication with your family is causing the issues and for you to feel this way?

You really are acting like a victim and it's all quite an immature attitude. I felt the whole time that this was a maturity issue, but wasn't sure how old you were so didn't like to say. However you saying you are at uni has made a lot of sense to me. I feel that you need to grow up, and that with time and age you will see how silly and pointless this is. Parents favouring your brother - honestly this is something a teenager would say, and believe me I know - I have one.*

Life has not been easy for me and probably for most of the people on this site. But how you deal with these issues is what will define you and give you character. Your ability to retain your dignity and integrity in the face of adversity is your achievement. Remaining an honest and respectful person even when others aren't is something to be proud of. Being resilient despite not being successful will serve you well. Can you honestly look in the mirror and tell yourself that you did not bring any of this upon yourself?

Your therapist can only do so much, it's up to you to accept you need to change and to be open to that. Get your therapist to help you make those changes - maybe you could do a 'My Name is Earl' kind of thing where you write a list of the negative things you have done and the people you have hurt and work on fixing that. Start with your brother.*

I do hope this helps you. *

[c2105026]

I have met with her on 4 seperate occasions. She seems like a lovely person, yet I just couldn't warm to her - cultural diferences I suppose. She is a Sydney-based yuppie and I am a rural-based free-thinking anarchist. My brother has completely changed for her - not for the better, not for the worse, suffice to say he is not the same guy I grew up with. I am only concerned on one hand that all the improvement is purely external for her approval.

My philosophy for life always has and always will be eye-for-eye. Its who I am and is a core part of my belief system. The relationships that have been ruined in my past did not have me as the root cause (although, yes, I didn't help). These people did wound up hurt, but they brought it on themselves. Despite the comments I and others have made in this thread I am actually a very compassionate person if I feel neutral or positive about people, animals, causes etc.

I am lucky I suppose that I am intelligent to the point of genius, and my parents are able to assist me financially over the years, and they are tolerant of my belief, my sexual orientation, my career change (although it took a trip to the psych ward to enable this) and even my decision to not attend my borthers wedding or even to have him in my life at all or not. Conversely, as a child I was abused, I have suffered from alcoholism, gambling addiction, bulimia, social ineptness and very impulsive behaviour resulting in many silly purchases.

I did bring some of this on myself, I suppose - I could have been more forceful at the outset when I embarked on my first career (civil engineering) yet wanted to do something else (which I am doing now), but I rolled over and played dead to avoid an argument. I had so many opportunities to stop my overeating, yet for some reason I chose not to. I could have not allowed my previous manager to mindfuck me into depression and ultimate career failure. Then again, my parents did not give me that much to work with......

These parents do favour their firstborn - from what I have read it is quite common. Especially in this case where he has been so much easier to manage, no cults, therapists, psych wards, spending sprees - They always have, always will. Speaking with friends and colleagues of varying ages I am not the first sibling to end relations with other siblings on the basis of favouritism. I called mum on it the other week and guess what - no reply! Silence can be deafening!

[Xeno]

cnumbers, I have considered a variety of responses to this post. Perhaps it would be best if you simply print your last post and take it to your counsellor. Highlight these passages for them to save time. For example, even if true, what has the first to do with you?

I am only concerned on one hand that all the improvement is purely external for her approval.
My philosophy for life always has and always will be eye-for-eye.
The relationships that have been ruined in my past did not have me as the root cause (although, yes, I didn't help).
These people did wound up hurt, but they brought it on themselves.
I am lucky I suppose that I am intelligent to the point of genius
my parents are able to assist me financially over the years, and they are tolerant of my belief, my sexual orientation, my career change (although it took a trip to the psych ward to enable this) and even my decision to not attend my borthers wedding or even to have him in my life at all or not. contrasted with Conversely, as a child I was abused,
...
These parents do favour their firstborn - from what I have read it is quite common. Especially in this case where he has been so much easier to manage, no cults, therapists, psych wards, spending sprees - They always have, always will.
I called mum on it the other week and guess what - no reply! Silence can be deafening!

I wish you all the best. Please be patient, listen, and trust that people are trying to help you.

[Emmy]

It's ok for you to have differences to your brother's fiancé - getting along with people of all backgrounds is a skill and a challenge. If you work on that you can apply it to all facets of your life and it will serve you well in the future. I am sure your family and hers would be much relieved if you can try to have a positive relationship with her.*

If your brother has changed, that is his issue, not hers. He is responsible for his actions, so perhaps you could raise that with him. He may not be aware of it so you will need to give him examples. I guess I don't really understand this, though. You say he has changed for the worse, you also say he has improved himself but you feel it's not a positive thing and he could be faking it. You also say that he seems to be lucky and that your parents favour him as he hasn't caused them concerns, which would indicate he is doing well - what is it exactly that is so bad about him?

As for your philiosophy, be prepared for that to change as you get older. Personally I find that sort of attitude repulsive - it could be part of the reason girls aren't interested in you. We tend to look for stable, strong men - someone vengeful isn't particularly attractive. People who care about you are going to hurt you and let you down through life - even if they don't mean to. The possibility of getting involved with someone like you is frightening if they think you will retaliate when something goes wrong. And surely that way of life is tiring! Do you really want to live like that?

Your parents help you financially, are understanding of you and you still live with them - so what is your issue with them? They sound great and I am sure many people would wish they had parents like yours. I can't even talk to my father and I had to leave home early due to abuse. Your mother was probably so completely stunned by your third grade question she didn't know how to respond - it's possible you are imagining the whole thing. And anyway, so what if it is true? You are an adult now, are you not? Your parents are there for you, supportive, understanding, it's clear they love you - what more do you want? What would it look like to you if they didn't favour your brother - are you sure it's not all in your head? *

I really think you are on the 'woe is me' train and you are failing to see that you have created this world and you are feeding your perceptions. Your concession to it being partly your fault was again another victim statement!

Now, I am not saying you are wrong about parents favouring their firstborn, but I've never seen it. I am the firstborn and I don't feel favoured and nor do my sisters feel I am favoured. I don't know anyone who feels that, but then all my friends are adults so no-one I know would ever talk about that. It would just be embarassing. In fact, my firstborn friends and I feel that as firstborn children we have more of a responsibility to our parents than our younger siblings and it's actually pretty tough breaking in parents!

Just have a really good think about it all, and perhaps have a chat to someone impartial who knows you and your family and who isn't afraid to tell you the truth (a grandparent might be good) - you might find that things aren't really the way you think they are. *

[cyclist]

These parents do favour their firstborn - from what I have read it is quite common.

This is hearsay.

My parents mentioned to me on the weekend that they saw a show about favoritism of parents towards their children. It wasn't uncommon for all children to feel that one of the others was the favorite. You may be surprised that if you spoke to your brother, that he thinks that you were the favorite.

James

[Logic]

I think we are at a point, and have read enough from Cnumbers
(as highlighted by xeno), that no one other than a trained psychologist should be giving him advice.

Cnumbers, please do follow through with that help you are seeking. Best wishes.

[Annie]

+1 Logic. Best wishes C numbers.

[c2105026]

There is certain behaviour that I do not tolerate in any relationships, be it family, working or otherwise. Bullying, lying, death threats, and out-and-out back stabbing are included. There really only have been two people in my life that have hurt me to the extent that I want to completely ruin their lives - my ex best friend and one of my ex-bosses. No, I am not some psychopath who will seriously f**k up anyone who will look at me sideways. (That ex-boss OTOH did - she lost 2 of her best engineers, and now noone will work for her. ha.).

As for brother...sorry, due to various things that I have already discussed, I have never felt close to him, for as long as I can remember. I feel that asking him to leave me alone for good is not a vindictive thing, its not like I torched his car or shagged his lady friend.....but one that does bug me about him is this. I call a spade a spade; if there is something I don't want to do, I don't do it. He goes out of his way to make himself appealing to older family members. Case in point - at the funerals of the 3 grandparents we have lost, at 2 of them he HAD to make a speech, or lead a prayer or something. He paints himself as the honourable one, it sickens me to nausea. Such a fake, phony brown nose.

I fully agree I have been indulging in self pity for the last decade or so but in the last three weeks not a single negative thought has entered my head, and have been getting my shit together. Have had only 2 cigarettes, and only 4 days of binge eating, a very very big reduction. As for parents - they pushed me into the life they wanted me to lead, not what I wanted me to lead. But after my close call with suicide they woke up to the fact that the life they chose for me was not working out. It was at that point I was permitted to make decisions as an adult, at the age of 26. They are very sorry for what they did (bullying, extortion, coercion to stay in a career/life that I hated) and I have apologised for being so difficult. We have forgiven eachother and are moving on.

In closing
- I may speak to brother again, but don't know when
- At this stage I am not going to wedding
- Since brother is not in my life I feel completely neutral towards him
- I am moving on with smoking and drinking cessation, weightloss and a particular fitness goal
- I am doing eveything within my reasonable power to live a more fulfilling life
- Parents and I at this moment have a strained but sustainable relationship

Good night, and Good luck :)

[Logic]

Yo Emmy - thread for you here: Karma (http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?p=200878#post200878)

[Perspective]

It seems you need to get over your hatred of your sister-in-law to be. May I suggest you put any pride, hatred, anger etc aside, and request a one-on-one meeting with her to discuss your differences? Perhaps somewhere neutral - buy her lunch. This woman is going to be part of your family - maybe for the rest of your life. She may be the mother of your nieces and nephews, she will be there at Christmas, she will probably be involved in decisions when elderly family members die, etc, etc. You don't want this to fester and you dont want an enemy in your family. And who knows - you may actually find her to be a nice person and you could be really good friends. Accept that there may well be a good reason she doesn't want you involved in her wedding - and talk to her about it, ask her. Be open to listening to her point of view and accepting that you may be behaving badly. Try to find some common ground - the fact you both love your brother is a good start. *

I disagree with your comment about not apologising for a deliberate act. You should absolutely apologise for deliberately hurting someone - and do what you can to make up for it. Revenge and being petty is never going to make you feel good about yourself. It's just bad karma.*I have done deliberate things to hurt people in the past - and I am not proud of it and it never made me feel better. I apologised and repaired relationships and felt a great sense of relief afterwards. So do yourself a favour - change your attitude and repair relationships and give yourself some peace in your life.

The thing is, life sucks and it's not fair and luck is unpredictable. *My youngest sister is completely happy and has had a much more successful life so far than I have. But I don't at all hate her for it -in fact I am rapt for her - its wonderful. Despite her 'issues' being nothing next to the things I have had to deal with on my own, I help her out and am there for her as much as I can. But I also know that my life is far better than other peoples - I was complaining to my friend the other day, and she said "Are you tkidding me? You have the best life!". So really, if you put it into perspective, your life is far better than millions of people's and you have a lot to be grateful for. I mean, you could have been born into the Westboro family, for example! But you know what they say about luck - it takes a lot of hard work. Being physically attractive is luck - being physically fit takes hard work. If you dedicate the same amount of effort you use staying fit to being a decent and successful person, you may find yourself getting 'lucky'.

I also think that maybe you are imagining your parents favouring your brother. I bet they wouldn't see it that way, and your brother probably wouldn't either. Could it be that a lack of communication with your family is causing the issues and for you to feel this way?

You really are acting like a victim and it's all quite an immature attitude. I felt the whole time that this was a maturity issue, but wasn't sure how old you were so didn't like to say. However you saying you are at uni has made a lot of sense to me. I feel that you need to grow up, and that with time and age you will see how silly and pointless this is. Parents favouring your brother - honestly this is something a teenager would say, and believe me I know - I have one.*

Life has not been easy for me and probably for most of the people on this site. But how you deal with these issues is what will define you and give you character. Your ability to retain your dignity and integrity in the face of adversity is your achievement. Remaining an honest and respectful person even when others aren't is something to be proud of. Being resilient despite not being successful will serve you well. Can you honestly look in the mirror and tell yourself that you did not bring any of this upon yourself?

Your therapist can only do so much, it's up to you to accept you need to change and to be open to that. Get your therapist to help you make those changes - maybe you could do a 'My Name is Earl' kind of thing where you write a list of the negative things you have done and the people you have hurt and work on fixing that. Start with your brother.*

I do hope this helps you. *

Now there's a good ol' Emmy rant!

[c2105026]

Update - have had first session with therapist. The approach we will be taking is psychodynamic therapy. next appointment is week after next. Focus will be stopping my addictive behaviours for good (overeating, smoking, binge drinking etc.) and to enhance resilience and social skills.

[Fearless]

I am going to have to catch up on this development later today. I applaud you for taking positive steps for your wellbeing. All the best with it.

They say with this sort of thing you really must give it time (at least 6 sessions), giving things chance to start falling into place.

Let us know how you go :)

[c2105026]

Next update. Finally received invite to wedding, turned it down, everyone knows why. Also had next session today. Apparently I compare myself to others too much, and from the sounds of it have been doing it for so long. It could be that my unorthodox development had something to do with this. My therapist suggested that I either compare myself favourably or compare only to myself at a more crappy time of my life.

Example - my brother may well be getting married but he is more over weight than I am, cannot drive a manual, has no upper body strength, cannot run 14.08km in 73m47s (todays fabbo time! actually he cannot run at all, very unfit), is not really involved in the community, and from the sounds of it has not a lot of friends outside of his relationship.

Therapist also wants me to use relaxation/reflective sessions on why I may sabotage myself (is long time til next session).