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View Full Version : Tbhatti says "Atheism: You're Doing It All Wrong!"


tbhatti
19th May 2011, 05:46 PM
I think you guys are giving this guy way to much attention. His opinion piece has around 120 'likes' and around 130 comments. I think the best thing to do is ignore him. What I canít work out is why he has got so many people angry. It is a pretty basic piece and should not have got so much attention.
May as well say my piece:

A couple of points got to me. Firstly, he did pretty well at lampooning the campaign against SRI and chaplains. It did make us look a bit pathetic when you consider that most atheists have been pretty silent on issues of hard-caore porn, and violence in the media. If we really cared about the rights of kids, which most of us would, why are we screaming like banshees on this and silent on the other stuff?

Secondly, he doesnít actually try and defend access ministries, and his freedom of religion line is hard to rebut- are we saying we want to take peopleís universal right to freedom of assemble and religion away? Maybe some are- I'm not. I don;t believe in gods and think it is rubbish, but I look pretty narrow-minded if I try to impede other poeple's freedom to beleive something different.

ANd finally, I am embarrassed by the comments against his article. I mean, have you read them? It makes atheists and opponents of SRI and chaplains look like a bunch of vile screaming abusive gits. We need to be careful of the tone in these forums. SUre, we are passionate about our stance against belief in gods, etc, but it only makes us look like narrow-minded idiots when we are so vicious and nasty in teh comments.

AFA Admin
19th May 2011, 06:22 PM
Hi tbhatti

This is a message sent to all who find their way to these forums.

We like people, and we like facts too!

We're friendly but we're skeptical, and if somebody calls for proof, it's not an accusation. Only the strong ideas thrive here: we try to respect people. (We do not tolerate personal abuse.)

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Have fun.

Atrax Robustus
19th May 2011, 07:36 PM
A couple of points got to me. Firstly, he did pretty well at lampooning the campaign against SRI and chaplains. It did make us look a bit pathetic when you consider that most atheists have been pretty silent on issues of hard-caore porn, and violence in the media. If we really cared about the rights of kids, which most of us would, why are we screaming like banshees on this and silent on the other stuff?

Most atheists in this country could care less!



I don;t believe in gods and think it is rubbish, but I look pretty narrow-minded if I try to impede other poeple's freedom to beleive something different.

. . . and you're happy to allow them open access to children to convince them that what they believe in is the truth?


ANd finally, I am embarrassed by the comments against his article.

I'm not.

I mean, have you read them? It makes atheists and opponents of SRI and chaplains look like a bunch of vile screaming abusive gits. We need to be careful of the tone in these forums. SUre, we are passionate about our stance against belief in gods, etc, but it only makes us look like narrow-minded idiots when we are so vicious and nasty in teh comments.

Who is we? Am I the only member of the non-believer community who isn't part of some club that has an agreed doctrine? C'mon all you atheists - why have I been excluded from this organisation?

Loki
19th May 2011, 07:51 PM
but I look pretty narrow-minded if I try to impede other poeple's freedom to believe something different.

I couldn't care less what people believe in their own homes and clubs. I do care when they push their unevidenced beliefs on children.

While we're at it could you tell me how violence and porn relate to the indoctrination of children into the unevidenced and irrational fear of an imaginary celestial curtain twitcher, cause I can't work out the connection.

Logic please
19th May 2011, 08:00 PM
How quaint... someone who doesn't extend the basic courtesy of introducing themselves to the forum, instead kicks off with a lecture about how "we atheists" should present "ourselves". :rolleyes: Oh well, welcome to the forum...
I think you guys are giving this guy way to much attention. His opinion piece has around 120 'likes' and around 130 comments. I think the best thing to do is ignore him. What I can’t work out is why he has got so many people angry. It is a pretty basic piece and should not have got so much attention.Thanks so much for the gratuitous advice. You can even follow it, if you wish. Others wish not to. My Irony MeterTM exploded, in light of this later comment:
Maybe some are- I'm not. I don;t believe in gods and think it is rubbish, but I look pretty narrow-minded if I try to impede other poeple's freedom to beleive something different.
Yet you would restrict others' freedom of thought and expression. Hypocrisy, much??? :rolleyes:
Firstly, he did pretty well at lampooning the campaign against SRI and chaplains.Your opinion only. The OP has made a contrary and cogent argument. Would you like to have a go at substantively addressing it, or is bare assertion enough for you? Because, if you've read your Intro post, you'll know that it isn't enough, here.
It did make us look a bit pathetic when you consider that most atheists have been pretty silent on issues of hard-caore porn, and violence in the media. If we really cared about the rights of kids, which most of us would, why are we screaming like banshees on this and silent on the other stuff?Firstly, who the fuck is this "us" and "we" you refer to? Sorry, but you have got hold of the wrong end of a stick that doesn't actually exist. :eek:

The AFA (and forum) doesn't "control" its members like a religion might. Members are free to hold and express their own opinions on whatever topics they wish.

Secondly, your attempt at argument is a non-sequitur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)). The existence of the other problems you mentioned does not logically preclude discussion or comment on this one. There is no causal or priority relationship between them.

And anyway, who says that arguments against SRI or chaplaincy are limited purely to the rights of children? Oh, that's right, only you...

Secondly, he doesn’t actually try and defend access ministries, and his freedom of religion line is hard to rebut- are we saying we want to take people’s universal right to freedom of assemble and religion away?The "freedom of religion" line is actually dead-easy to rebut, and it's been done countless times. You'd know that if you had made a basic search of existing threads of this forum. Go on, try it!

Your "freedom of religion" strawman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman) is even easier to rebut - please provide evidence that anyone on this forum has actually advocated what you accused people of? And if you have no evidence, I trust a full retraction will quickly follow.
ANd finally, I am embarrassed by the comments against his article. I mean, have you read them? It makes atheists and opponents of SRI and chaplains look like a bunch of vile screaming abusive gits. We need to be careful of the tone in these forums. SUre, we are passionate about our stance against belief in gods, etc, but it only makes us look like narrow-minded idiots when we are so vicious and nasty in teh comments.Your opinion only, and unevidenced opinions don't count for much here. Any comments you might find objectionable were not made by the AFA, the forum, or anyone acting in the capacity of representative of these. Have you any evidence to the contrary???

This forum is not the place to take up your gripes against the "tone" of posters elsewhere on teh interwebz. And your presumption in lecturing us about being "careful of the tone", having been here for approximately 5 minutes, can go jump. Speak for yourself only, thanks. ;)

Lord Blackadder
19th May 2011, 08:03 PM
Counting down until tbhatti attacks the AFA's definition of atheism. In five... four... three... two... one...

Jaar-Gilon
19th May 2011, 08:44 PM
I'd comment but I don't want to miss Ass Ramming Sluts IV on channel 9, it starts in a couple of minutes!

Worldslaziestbusker
19th May 2011, 08:49 PM
It did make us look a bit pathetic when you consider that most atheists have been pretty silent on issues of hard-caore porn, and violence in the media. If we really cared about the rights of kids, which most of us would, why are we screaming like banshees on this and silent on the other stuff?

We need to be careful of the tone in these forums. SUre, we are passionate about our stance against belief in gods, etc, but it only makes us look like narrow-minded idiots when we are so vicious and nasty in teh comments.

I have been waiting so long for a leader.
Please tell me more about how I should act and what I should think.
Then pull your head in.
Or out. You do sound a little muffled.

robertkd
19th May 2011, 08:50 PM
ANd finally, I am embarrassed by the comments against his article. I mean, have you read them? It makes atheists and opponents of SRI and chaplains look like a bunch of vile screaming abusive gits.

I think you missed the point.


Article 18-2 of International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

2. No one shall be subject to coercion which would impair his freedom to have or to adopt a religion or belief of his choice.


Also I am not embarrassed by the comments.

Xeno
20th May 2011, 06:14 AM
If tbhatti has any persistence beyond a single post, I might have something to say about their comments. Otherwise it was a random noise.

wearestardust
20th May 2011, 08:52 AM
Hi tbhati. Thanks for your comments.

A response if I may, aside from some of the raw nerves you will have noted that you have touched.;)

Firstly, I suppose that yes,this guy could be regarded as a bit pissant and beneath our notice. The piece is on Online Opinion all the same. The thing that particularly struck me about those articles, especially the first one I responded to, is that it really is an extra-large with the lot of all the logical fallacies, spin and straight out misrepresentations that comprise the pro-chaplain position. A veritable one-stop shop of pro-chaplain stoopidz and disngenuity. These so-called arguments keep getting made and are worth responding to, it seems to me.

Secondly, and just as a remark on my method, I do note that comments against blogs are, well, shall we say, sometimes rather directed. Generally the comments that follow a blog are not a conversation, they're unidirectional comments. That is in fact why I comment on articles that pique my interest here, so that conversations can be had.

Thirdly, and most importantly, I am not sure that we can do anything as atheists. Maybe as secularists we can, but it only makes sense in the context of secularism-related matters. We're not a religion, or even a rotary club. Political views on this forum range from anarchists and lefties to economic liberals. Frankly, when I have been involved in community service, advocacy, or just helping out the neighbours, I've done so and do so as a human- both now and in the past when I was a theist.

I should also comment that the "there are bad things over there too" argument you put forward is exactly the same logical fallacy as the blogger's "leave us alone, what about kiddie pr0n" for the reason I stated. Yes those things are problems but it doesn't somehow make the chaplaincy issue any less pressing. Sorry;)

Finally, I don't really get what you mean by this:

Secondly, he doesnít actually try and defend access ministries, and his freedom of religion line is hard to rebut- are we saying we want to take peopleís universal right to freedom of assemble and religion away? Maybe some are- I'm not. I don;t believe in gods and think it is rubbish, but I look pretty narrow-minded if I try to impede other people's freedom to beleive something different.

Actually, he's trying pretty hard to defend Access Ministries. In particular, one of his ways of defending them is by arguing that xianity is a Good Thing and therefore worthy of being forced down people's throats. It's also got absolutely nothing to do with freedom of assembly or rights to believe, it's about whether religion gets a priviliged place in thepublic square. Of course the pro-chaplains play on making this confusion: that by wanting maintenance of secular public spaces, or freedom to criticise religion, we are being anti-religion or anti free speech. In other words, the theists are saying: follow our rules, and only we get to express an opinion, otherwise you are oppressing us.

In fact your comments seems to indicate that you've bought into this fallacious line of reasoning, which again underscores the need to keep hammering away at the stupidz. Sorry again;);)

Bolero
20th May 2011, 09:57 AM
I'd comment but I don't want to miss Ass Ramming Sluts IV on channel 9, it starts in a couple of minutes!
Damn you, JG!!! (Insert fist-brandishing emoticon here) I snorted coffee all over my desk!!!

Stubby
20th May 2011, 10:27 AM
Damn you, JG!!! (Insert fist-brandishing emoticon here) I snorted coffee all over my desk!!!

How did you make the coffee into lines? :p

wearestardust
20th May 2011, 11:50 AM
How did you make the coffee into lines? :p

:rolleyes: dude, you snort it, then you add the water.

(best done while wearing old clothes)

Cosmic Teapot
21st May 2011, 01:24 AM
I'd comment but I don't want to miss Ass Ramming Sluts IV on channel 9, it starts in a couple of minutes!

I thought Jerry Springer was only on Foxtel these days.

Cosmic Teapot
21st May 2011, 10:33 AM
Iw as just walking past the telly the other night and thought I heard an American voice announce "Ass-Rode Truckers".

LOL
I believe it was "Ice Road Truckers" you heard.
The real question is; did your anally orientated mishearing make you more inclined to watch said program?

Cosmic Teapot
21st May 2011, 10:44 AM
No, "reality" TV generally shits me.
And Ice Road Truckers is some of the worst toilet paper TV you'll see.
"Reality" is nowhere to be found as a TV producer is obviously injecting as much contrived "drama" into an otherwise mind-numbingly banal situation, like giving Susan Boyle botox treatments with a bike pump.

tbhatti
26th May 2011, 02:55 PM
Sorry if I offended anyone. I am not sure who chose to take my reply to a post and turn it into a seperate thread with the title:"Atheism you are doing it all wrong". I never said that and I never meant that. I regret that my comments were taken to be an attack on atheism.

I was only wanting to highlight that (disclaimer coming so don't get angry!) IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, when I as an atheist act in a way that makes me look intolerant, biggoted, and abusive to others who do not agree with me, then, it can make atheism look pathetic. This was my point- it is what I beleive- not what I was claiming fro ar directed to all atheists. AS every new member of the forum is told:

"We're friendly but we're skeptical, and if somebody calls for proof, it's not an accusation. Only the strong ideas thrive here: we try to respect people. (We do not tolerate personal abuse.)

My point was that there was a lot of disresepct and personal abuse thrown at the guy who did the op[inion piece, and consequently now at me for raising it. If you want evidence of my claim there it is!

I reiterate: I am not telling anyone what to do, think, beleive, or how to act. what I have just expressed is MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION.

Jaar-Gilon
26th May 2011, 03:03 PM
when I as an atheist act in a way that makes me look intolerant
I am intolerant of bullshit!

Worldslaziestbusker
26th May 2011, 03:23 PM
Sorry if I offended anyone. I am not sure who chose to take my reply to a post and turn it into a seperate thread with the title:"Atheism you are doing it all wrong". I never said that and I never meant that. I regret that my comments were taken to be an attack on atheism.

I was only wanting to highlight that (disclaimer coming so don't get angry!) IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, when I as an atheist act in a way that makes me look intolerant, biggoted, and abusive to others who do not agree with me, then, it can make atheism look pathetic.


If I act intolerant, that reflects on me, not on my absence of a belief in a concept, as my being an atheist is a state, not a dog or a chair or any other form of seperate entity to the rest of me.
Listen verr carefullee, I will say this onnlee as manee times as is needed for other people to get the hang of it: I am not intolerant of belief. I am perfectly happy for people to believe what they want. What I am intolerant of is those people bringing their beliefs into my life uninvited and I will meet the arrogance of those who try to push religious agendas on me with staunch opposition. My atheism is percussive and I will stop pushing back when others stop pushing me.